Is there really a point to dice being involved anymore?

Dice modification is off the hook. It's getting to where the rolls are nearly never what's.......rolled.

And the auto damage.....oof.

So, it's just an observation,and it's got me thinking....if not a single card that involves yet another way to change dice is ever released it would be just fine.

Sarcasm aside --albeit appreciated-- I truly think the designers wish it to become a card game, miniatures optional.

The game would be 10x better if all auto damage was removed. But dice are still a big factor in the game.

1 minute ago, wurms said:

The game would be 10x better if all auto damage was removed.

This

Yeah, dice creep isn't just NUMBER of dice; it's also consistency. It's at the point where, if you don't have TL+focus, you wonder why you're even trying.

To be honest, the only real RNG in the game anymore is matchups, to the extent that your matchup basically determines who will win the game. Everything else is secondary.

1 minute ago, Ailowynn said:

To be honest, the only real RNG in the game anymore is matchups, to the extent that your matchup basically determines who will win the game. Everything else is secondary.

Then I'd suggest, like any other game, people need to get back into the skill of picking a list that is good against all-comers. It's much more fun too.

That said, yes there will always be lists that your list won't handle as well of course.

RoV

That's fair, although there always will be that one matchup that just destroys you...it's largely a question of how well you predict the meta.

i would argue that any list with synergy and a plan should have a chance. not a 6 unteched hawks list or equivalent garbage, but any list that uses ships and upgrades in a sensible way should have at least a believable chance. that isnt the case anymore

I know your post is about action efficiency creep but it got me thinking about dice creep.

I wonder if they need to just add the following unbreakable rule to the rules bible and force the developers to design mechanics and hp around it forever:

"It is impossible for any ship to roll more than 5 red dice."

Target locks...expertise.. chips...cad ...Sabine...autoblaster...

Anytime someone picks up dice anymore...just assume optimal results and save time.

15 minutes ago, Velvetelvis said:

A nytime someone picks up dice anymore...just assume optimal results and save time.

Unless you are Wurms, then let that bastard roll, cause he can magically turn "hit blank blank blank" into "hit blank blank blank".

1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:

Sarcasm aside --albeit appreciated-- I truly think the designers wish it to become a card game, miniatures optional.

Miniatures were always optional. If you simply removed the ships and only played with the base and cardboard insert the game will be functionally the same (even better as there's less risk of ships getting tangled in furballs or getting knocked over).

X Wing is the only miniature game I have played where there's zero mechanics attached to the miniature itself.

I f they removed dice from the game, what would people blame their losses on?

2 minutes ago, Sekac said:

I f they removed dice from the game, what would people blame their losses on?

Turn Zero, or obstacle selection

I get what your saying about action efficiency creep, but I have definitely played games where I've had Focus + TL shots blank out or only get 1 hit due to terrible rolls.

1 minute ago, piznit said:

Turn Zero, or obstacle selection

Ah, an idealist.

21 minutes ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

I get what your saying about action efficiency creep, but I have definitely played games where I've had Focus + TL shots blank out or only get 1 hit due to terrible rolls.

Yeah and quite the opposite can happen. Someone rolled a natural 2 hits and 3 crits last week with Adv Proton Torps on a TIE Bomber. Target Lock spent to make attack, no focus (unbelievable with APT) and no Guidance Chips.

This is why OL is so hated. You have to keep dice

The salt is strong with this one.

lmao, this post would've been valid around a year ago. Right now most tier 1 and 2 lists actually don't have 100% consistent dice.

Looking at meta analyzer (last month, with magic because I can't be bothered to disable it):

1. Mindlinked triple jumps

A lot of times the jumpmasters attack with either only focus/focus+GC (assuming they didn't have to spend it on defense). While R4 and K4 do allow them to occassionally use target locks in reality they do so around 50%, due to spending the TL for torps or preserving it.

2. Biggs Lowrisky

this list relies on pretty much every possible trick that isn't dice modification. The only ship that fires with focus+lock equivalent is Jess.

3 and 4. Dengar Nym and DengarTel

Admittedly, partially an exception- both builds have full actionless mods on Dengar. Tel has full mods, but often wants to spend/keep the lock for torps. Interestingly, the most successful Nym builds don't seem to be the accuracy corrector autoblaster ones- turretless advSen and FCS TLT are the ones that did the best. And let's not forget, Bomblet is very dicey (Cad is not a very popular inclusion).

5. Mirandash

Dash relies on his stashed focus and a single reroll from LW for mods. While admittedly Miranda runs sabine bombs, it's very rare for her attacks to have double mods.

6. rebel junkyard

As Biggs lowhrisky's precursor, pretty much same deal. Very limited offense mods.

7. Kanan Biggs

This one is tricky. While the list is optimised to provide perhaps the best focus and TL single ship efficiency in the game, they are used for so many things they very rarely can get used for everything.

8. Fennaldra

As with every Dengar in the metagame, that guy has more or less full mods (not always, however- in this build he finds himself doing white maneuvers surprisingly often). Because he often needs to reposition, Fenn actually rarely gets to acquire a TL and relies on "a bucket of focused dice" more than mods (which is basically the opposite of what you're implying)

9. Nymranda

Like above, Miranda rarely fires with full mods (one of the top builds actually features a completely unmodded five dice plasma torp ). Nym is a bit more consistent.

10. DengarFenn

Dengar- same deal as always. Due to PtL, Fenn is more likely to get full mods, but in reality that still rarely happens due to his reliance on range control.

To sum it up, the jumpmaster (which is widely known to be overpowered and is about to get nerfed with the upcoming FAQ) is pretty much the only ship reliant on consistent full dice mods among the top tier squadrons.

Quite the opposite. I hate a game where you are fully dependent by dice.

In that case, play dice. See who will win by a roll of dice.

I love modificators, I love auto damages, I love passive effects. And I love when happens that someone win a SC with a full Ion brobots control list, because he understood how to bypass this modificator creep. I can hit you? Well I will run some stress/ion/tractor mechanics.

These are the cases that I love to see. Where the game itself becomes more tactic, and less roll-dice dependent.

The only one mechanic that I don't like is the Adv.Slam+Bombs, because it is 90% nearly uncounterable. It is too much powerful, and when the way to counter one trick is to simply "don't play those ships (low hp aces)" it becomes bad. Because my idea is to counter some tricks IN game, and not when you're list building.

I love the ion, the tractor effects. I love to drop bombs and other stuffs. I like cards like Feedback Array and Death Man Switch. 'm in hype with Harpoon Missiles. And I hope to see always more cool mechanics that involve some passive/active effects, and not just "roll more dice, be more casual".

In this scenario, I like even the modifiers. Because of them, those fully control archetype lists are winning. But yes, you need a lot of skill, and most of it you must be brave enough to run an archetype like that(as the Brobots Ion list above) in a tournament. Because roll dices is lazy, but is an easy way to win...until you don't get an highfull skill opponent.

5 hours ago, LordBlades said:

X Wing is the only miniature game I have played where there's zero mechanics attached to the miniature itself.

I'm struggling to think of ANY miniatures game that can't function without the models.

Space Hulk? Blood Bowl? Armada? Whatever. You can just as easily use tokens or counters instead of models in any of them. Miniatures are basically there for aesthetic reasons (because they look cool) and to assist in recognition and immersion.

8 hours ago, Velvetelvis said:

Is there really a point to dice being involved anymore?

Dice modification is off the hook. It's getting to where the rolls are nearly never what's.......rolled.

And the auto damage.....oof.

So, it's just an observation,and it's got me thinking....if not a single card that involves yet another way to change dice is ever released it would be just fine.

Dammit don't use the acewing crap that ruined X-WING Glory in your games . Stop being a filthy power gaming monster (not saying YOU, just the bad gamers in general) that ruine everybody's else's game-fun.

Once you do this you will no longer need to argue and fuss over this stupidity, time chart be dammed, and get back to playing STAR WARS in the first place.

BELIEVE IT OR NOT This ain't 40k or hero-hammer, and believes it or not's furthermore and to be sure: it ain't a dam card game either!!!

YOU ARE YOUR OWN HERO... OR NOT!

This is why I love the Empire. It is all based on the dice. The greens and the reds are only modify mostly by target lock or autothrusters at this point. Sometimes you see Emperor, but it is rare.

44 minutes ago, Strikesback said:

This is why I love the Empire. It is all based on the dice. The greens and the reds are only modify mostly by target lock or autothrusters at this point. Sometimes you see Emperor, but it is rare.

This is why the Emperor didn't need a nerf: because he was the one mitigating factor (for a steep cost) in a faction where pretty much everything else is about movement and dice rolls. It's especially infuriating when you see the other factions got to keep their own absolute effects that never fail. That was the first time when I really thought these designers don't know what they're doing.