Do you guys painstakingly labor over your Tourney lists?

I have a local store tourney coming up tomorrow. I've completely changed (i'm not talking about minor tweaks here...expanded hangar bays vs boosted comms, Intell Officer vs. Xi7's), I'm talking about complete overhauls to my list about 8 times in the last 24 hours. The ONLY thing that remains the same is faction (rebels).

It's enough to drive you crazy.

I (usually) have an idea for a tournament list and refine it over a few weeks before the event. Tweaking an upgrade here or there, and sometimes more drastically a ship. This way you get a chance to 'shake down' the fleet and see how it performs - in Armada, the art is often in how you fly the fleet, not what you are flying!

Having said that, I don't always follow that advice! Sometimes a tournament can be a great way to practice something fun. Especially if you already have the swag!

1 hour ago, Rocmistro said:

Do you guys painstakingly labor over your Tourney lists?

I have a local store tourney coming up tomorrow. I've completely changed (i'm not talking about minor tweaks here...expanded hangar bays vs boosted comms, Intell Officer vs. Xi7's), I'm talking about complete overhauls to my list about 8 times in the last 24 hours. The ONLY thing that remains the same is faction (rebels).

It's enough to drive you crazy.

not really. I build a list i like day 1, examine it day 2 and then run it. I've attended...4? store championships so far, haven't changed the list yet. imo it's more important to build a concept and then learn to fly that list, don't worry about making it "perfect", there's no such thing, learn to "fly" it well and you'll do great.

You guys are clearly more focused than I. :-)

All but 1 of my lists has been taken to exactly 1 tournament. That other list went to a whopping 2. Generally I create something a week or two out, maybe get a few games in, and then run it.

For example, I playtested a list yesterday for a friend to run against which I had never run before. Made a big change to it afterwords (while keeping the overall theme, I hope) and will be running it at an event tomorrow. On the tournament table will be the first time I have run that fleet.

There's another event 2 weeks later. I'll probably be running something else then as well.

2-3 weeks out, I start playing and tweeting it.

I agonize over my lists before tournaments. I'll sit and look at it in a fleet builder for a few hours thinking of every fleet I might encounter, tweaking things so I can account for everything. What trips me up the most is squads vs flotillas, since that's typically the point pool I use to figure out if I want a bid. I usually end up saying **** it, throw in Tycho/Shara or Ciena/Valen and just go with it.

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And then I get to the tournament and find none of the fleets I thought I'd encounter...

3 hours ago, Rocmistro said:

Do you guys painstakingly labor over your Tourney lists?

I have a local store tourney coming up tomorrow. I've completely changed (i'm not talking about minor tweaks here...expanded hangar bays vs boosted comms, Intell Officer vs. Xi7's), I'm talking about complete overhauls to my list about 8 times in the last 24 hours. The ONLY thing that remains the same is faction (rebels).

It's enough to drive you crazy.

At least you have the faction down ?

I worked on a Rieekan Aceholes list for worlds for 2 months, practicing and doing minor tweaks, but I could never get confident with it. Day before I left I completely tossed it out and brought an Avenger ISD2 and Rhymerball instead. I played one game with it the night before the tourney started and made 2 tweaks that made the list as close to perfect as it could be and it felt totally different. I was confident with it in a way I never was with Rieekan. Finished top 20.

This wasn't my normal way, normally I am super methodical and practice, but it goes to say that if you don't feel comfortable with something, throw it out. Better to play something you are feeling good about than what is the "meta".

I'll work up a list. Run it by my bud @Destraa for opinions. Fly it a couple of times. Tweak it a bit. Take it to tourney.

The one time I did not try out a list beforehand I received the most amazing but whooping ever.

I would if I let myself think about what to take beforehand.

These days, I rock up at the tournament with my full collection, and don't find out wether I'm playing or not until 10 minutes before start-time...

.. because I run them, and only play if we'd have a Bye, otherwise...

This means I do silly things like take 2 Nebs and 2 Peltas to a Store Champs pre-Leia.

Depends, what level. For Regionals I've been known to tweak and refine for a few weeks, will do the same up to nationals. Store champs/GNK? I just make a list the day of or before and fly it untested.

@Darth Lupine and I spent three weeks theorycrafting, soundboarding, testing, and tweaking our lists before our store championship at The Dark Side in Sarasota, FL. We took first and second (with me only losing to him) together. It can be a maddening process. As he stated, there's only been once that he went against the grain (ignoring some advice I gave him the day prior to last year's regionals) and since then it's been our ritual for tourney prep.

Most of the time I build a list that I practice a bunch with and make minor tweaks to over a few weeks before a major tournament.

And then the day of the tournament I don't like the list anymore and am bored with it and make something I've never flown before and take that.... it's worked out better some times than others

I tend to start with a core of 1-2 ships that I want to fly (you can probably guess my favorites pretty easily). Then I build the fleet around them to accomplish whatever my goal is for the tournament.

What I've found is that flying what you know almost always results in a better overall placement than flying the "current meta." that said, it's good to play a few side games with the current top dog meta fleets so you can understand what's being done when your opponent plays them.

I've only ever participated in Vassal tournaments, but the idea is the same, so I'll chime in.

Roughly 2 weeks before the fleets are due to be handed in, I shall get an idea of a fleet I want. I shall then proceed to make it and, in making it, change it completely. I shall then be only partially satisfied with the list, and make another. This goes on a few more times, until I have about 6 or so lists, generally with one faction being represented by the majority, but always with both factions present. I then proceed to look over the lists, and as one peaks my interest, I shall designate that my tourney fleet, until the next one peaks it more. When all is done, the last one to have seemed neat is my final list and is handed in.

Since it's Vassal, I often don't own everything I fly, so it's nigh impossible to pre-test.

Well I just got back from a tournament today with a list that I had thrown together 2 days ago after a long work day and only a couple of hours sleep the night before that... didn't care where I placed and ended up winning because I had random counters to the other lists there in the form of the targetting scramblers and the squadron ball. Normally I fuss a lot but I took a completely opposite view this time and went lets break the meta...

http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=125561&key=dbdc1f4a40227a1a13371b1b4ca6eb6a

I'll build a list and look at it for efficiencies like dropping one squadron for another, or moving about some upgrades. Beyond that, I tend to leave it be, and even that tends to be a relatively quick process. If I get to the point where I'm replacing a ship, I'll reevaluate the whole list. If I replace two, I'll usually scrap and start again.

Its easy to get analysis paralysis in this game, especially in building. I'm always an advocate of fly what you feel comfortable with, when building for an event. The meta can shift all it wants, but chasing it isn't always the best call if you aren't comfortable with your options.

Great advice here, and may kindred spirits.

I also find that flying the ships/list you know is generally a better result.

The problem is that I was soooo hoping to toss it up this time and try something different. I really wanted to use Hammerheads. I made it my initial goal "I'm going to use 4 hammerheads". After some list making, it got trimmed down to 2. Then 1. Now 0.

1 hour ago, Rocmistro said:

Great advice here, and may kindred spirits.

I also find that flying the ships/list you know is generally a better result.

The problem is that I was soooo hoping to toss it up this time and try something different. I really wanted to use Hammerheads. I made it my initial goal "I'm going to use 4 hammerheads". After some list making, it got trimmed down to 2. Then 1. Now 0.

I feel you. I'm a Gladiator expert, so tend to always use them, and now I find myself thinking I want to try external racks on Raiders.....and I can't wrap my head around it. ?

1 hour ago, Darth Lupine said:

I feel you. I'm a Gladiator expert, so tend to always use them, and now I find myself thinking I want to try external racks on Raiders.....and I can't wrap my head around it. ?

Don't chase, set traps. Raiders work best receiving "catching" unfortunate ships that have to move into their front arc rather than chasing them down (unless last/first). I've sent many a raider captain to their doom to learn that lesson....

1 hour ago, Darth Lupine said:

I feel you. I'm a Gladiator expert, so tend to always use them, and now I find myself thinking I want to try external racks on Raiders.....and I can't wrap my head around it. ?

Yeah, almost every list I create ends up with a '30 in it. . . then another, and heck, if I have 2, might as well have Dodonna right?

59 minutes ago, MandalorianMoose said:

Don't chase, set traps. Raiders work best receiving "catching" unfortunate ships that have to move into their front arc rather than chasing them down (unless last/first). I've sent many a raider captain to their doom to learn that lesson....

And that's the thing. I am a very aggressive player, and Glads excel used very aggressively, while Raiders benefit with more cautious play, and I'm the full speed ahead and **** the proton torpedoes type......

I've run a lot of Raider heavy lists in the past, to generally good effect. Gladiators are actually a good compliment for them for the very reason that you can play them more aggressively. I used to run a 4x Raider, 2x Gladiator list with APT and OE on everyone that pulled down some serious threats by using the Gladiators as sheepdogs, corralling a target toward the waiting Raiders. It was especially rough against ISDs and Liberty builds, as I recall.

funny. I have a lot more difficulties with building Imperial lists. Raiders, I've only had bad experiences with, and Vics, even though they got super buffed, still give me a bad taste because of its past bad performances.

Rebel lists are often a no brainer to me and I always have fun building them. Imps, I don't know what to do with them most of the time. I wish the Interdictor cost 15 points less than it does.