Hi everyone

in the last adventure the PC obtained a couple of lightsaber cristals. One is clearly a sith/dark side crystal (red) while another is a blue one.
Jedi PC (and his "apprentice", another PC who just started moving her first step into the Force) asked me if there is a way to "de attune" one crystal, ie to remove the attunement (and thus also color) and attune to a different PC

I answered with a plain "no, there is no way, if you whant your personal crystal go find one". However, a way to "cleaning" a dark side crystal and removing the "dark side imprint" on it without destroying it, could be a good thing...

1) What do you think about it?
2) there is a canon (or canon-like) source about it?
3) there is a rule somewhere in one of those 10000 manuals FFG keep on publishing?

Thanks for your answers...

19 minutes ago, kelpie said:

Hi everyone

in the last adventure the PC obtained a couple of lightsaber cristals. One is clearly a sith/dark side crystal (red) while another is a blue one.
Jedi PC (and his "apprentice", another PC who just started moving her first step into the Force) asked me if there is a way to "de attune" one crystal, ie to remove the attunement (and thus also color) and attune to a different PC

I answered with a plain "no, there is no way, if you whant your personal crystal go find one". However, a way to "cleaning" a dark side crystal and removing the "dark side imprint" on it without destroying it, could be a good thing...

1) What do you think about it?
2) there is a canon (or canon-like) source about it?
3) there is a rule somewhere in one of those 10000 manuals FFG keep on publishing?

Thanks for your answers...

There is a corrupted crystal in disciples of harmony. Granted it has special features that you'll be ignoring it but the (game mechanical) method of redeeming it is simply to be a lightside paragon (have a morality score of 71 or greater)

Page 52, Disicples of Harmony covers it in the side bar "Reclaiming a Corrupted Crystal".

Two things you as the GM may need to keep in mind when it comes to cleansing/de-attuning a dark sider's kyber crystal.

First, did the crystal have any modifications? If it's just a standard crystal with zero modifications, then no worries, and you can treat the PC cleansing the dark side taint as a personal story arc.

Second, is that if the crystal did have any modifications made by the prior owner, is the PC looking to keep those modifications? If the answer is no, and they're good with the crystal being reset to its base values (for instance, a 'corrupted' Ilum crystal that had +2 damage and +2 Vicious being reset to the base traits of a regular Ilum crystal), then again you're good to go.

However, if the PC is looking to keep any existing modifications, that becomes a trickier issue, especially if the PC is lacking either a high Mechanics dice pool and/or a high Force Rating. By allowing them to keep any existing modifications (even if the overall credit cost is rather paltry), it makes the crystal far more potent than it would be otherwise.

My suggestion would be that if you have access to Disciples of Harmony, give the PC a corrupted crystal with no modifications (in effect, the PC has to start fresh in terms of making this "their" crystal), and then make use of the suggestion that Sam Stewart made on the most recent Order 66 podcast that once the crystal has been properly cleansed (PC has become a Light Side Paragon), then change the crystal to that of another type, carrying over any modifications the PC has made to the corrupted crystal.

For example, my PC in a friend's game acquired a corrupted kyber crystal, which I've since modded to have +2 damage and -1 to crit rating. Under the suggestion I just proposed, should my PC be able to hit Light Side Paragon and succeed on the Discipline check, the crystal could then become an Ilum crystal, but with two of the four +1 damage mods and the -1 crit rating mods being marked as completed.

I'd been thinking about this a little even before Disciples of Harmony came out, with a few different scenarios in my head. I was imagining three different reasons to reattune a crystal, each more difficult than the last.

The basic idea is that it's much like modifying the crystal, except you reset all the mod slots, and attune it to yourself. Modding crystals can be done with either Mechanics or Lore, though this feels to me like it should maybe require Lore. You also get to add your Force Rating, using any generated points as extra successes.

So, the first reason to reattune would be that you failed a few modification rolls on your own saber, and now that you're more skilled and stronger in the Force, you want to get that sucker as strong as you can. A crystal attuned to you has the Difficulty reduced by 2, so this is the easiest one. Some folks might say that you need to go find a new crystal, but I really don't think that fits every character.

The second reason would be that you've gotten someone else's lightsaber, like a slain Jedi Knight. In this case, you still have to deal with the higher difficulty, but once you reattune it, it's considered "yours."

The third reason is that you've taken the lightsaber of someone with an opposed Morality. A Sith stealing the lightsaber of a Jedi, or a Lightsider taking the weapon of a defeated Darksider. In my opinion, this should be more difficult, though I haven't figured out exactly how. Difficulty upgrades are always possible, or you could mess with the results of the Force Die. A lightsider who uses Dark Pips trying to reattune an Inquisitor's saber should probably have something bad happen.

All of this is just the mechanical aspect. The GM may require some research to figure out how it can even be done, and can throw all sorts of complications into the mix. What happens when you try to reattune an Inquisitor's crystal when the inquisitor is still alive, for example? I'm thinking the difficulty gets upgrades equal to the villain's Willpower or Force Rating, and Threats or Despair might draw him to you, thirsty for vengeance (this is exactly the problem one of my PC's will face if he makes the attempt).

I'm not sure quite what I think about the Corrupted Crystal in Disciples of Harmony. I think in my game, that will be the artificial, Sith Alchemy crystal. Darksiders who want something else can steal them from slain Jedi or just follow their own crystal quests to Ilum, Barab 1, or a Krayt Dragon's lair.

Partial spoiler...

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As far as canon goes, the current Darth Vader comic series story arc is about how Vader makes his red saber, and I believe the novel 'Ashoka' has a part where she cleanses crystals for her white blades.

Ok... so i need to grab Disciple of Harmony...
or use an house rule

(and also i see is just a Discipline roll made by someone paragon...)

thanks!

1 hour ago, kelpie said:

Ok... so i need to grab Disciple of Harmony...
or use an house rule

(and also i see is just a Discipline roll made by someone paragon...)

thanks!

Well, the rule in DoH is pretty simple, of the character is a Light Side Paragon (morality 71 or higher), the crystal is purified.

I'd make them make some kind of skill check - Knowledge (Lore) or Discipline, maybe both - to cleanse a crystal. The difficulty would depend on the cleanser's moral standing and maybe the crystal's history (e.g., cleansing Darth Sidious or Darth Bane's lightsaber crystals ought to be tougher than cleansing Inquisitor #11's).

BTW, Disciples of Harmony is $19.99 on CoolStuffInc until tomorrow (at 11:59 pm EDT). </plug>

On 8/24/2017 at 1:15 PM, Tramp Graphics said:

Well, the rule in DoH is pretty simple, of the character is a Light Side Paragon (morality 71 or higher), the crystal is purified.

IIRC, I think it also suggests an optional D3 Discipline check to cleanse it.

An odd idea just occurred to me. What if cleansing a Kyber Crystal were a daunting Discipline check, but you got to add your Force Rating to the roll and spend light side pips to add success? And if you wanted to corrupt one, it would be a Coercion roll that you add Force Rating to, and spend Dark Side pips to add success? Both Discipline and Coercion key off of Willpower, and Coercion makes sense to me for corrupting the crystal with negative emotions. Effectively projecting all of your hate, anger, and pain into the crystal.

Naturally, I would have it so you can only cleanse a crystal if your morality is 71 or higher, and can only corrupt it if your morality is 30 or less. Corrupting any crystal would give it the base stats and mod options of a Corrupted Crystal, instead of what it ordinarily would have. So if you're a Dark Side user, and really want that high Vicious rating and extra Dark Side pip, there's plenty of reason to corrupt a crystal you get your hands on. But users of the Light Side would typically be more inclined to go with the original crystal's stats, depending on the type of crystal. I also really like the idea suggested above about having the difficult of modding an attuned crystal two lower than what it normally would be. This makes it way easier for players to modify their lightsabers and get interesting benefits.

Interesting. I'd forgotten the bit about needing to be a "Light Side Paragon" to cleanse a crystal. If that's the case, how did Ahsoka - who has been repeatedly pointed to as a prime example of a "grey" Jedi - manage to do it? Plus, her sabres were white, not blue or green.

3 hours ago, Daronil said:

Interesting. I'd forgotten the bit about needing to be a "Light Side Paragon" to cleanse a crystal. If that's the case, how did Ahsoka - who has been repeatedly pointed to as a prime example of a "grey" Jedi - manage to do it? Plus, her sabres were white, not blue or green.

One's status as a Jedi doesn't automatically correspond to where one sits on the Morality scale.

For instance, Qui-Gon Jinn was very much deemed to be a "grey Jedi" simply for not following the dictates of the Council or the letter of the Code, and yet he's probably one of the noblest and most light-aligned Jedi in the entire film series.

Mace Windu is considered to be a proper Jedi Knight, though I certainly wouldn't consider him to be a Light Side Paragon. Heck, the vast majority of the Jedi Order's rank and file probably wouldn't qualify as being Light Side Paragons in spite of strictly following the Jedi Code and fitting the proper mold of a Jedi Knight.

So it's a simple matter for Ahsoka to be a Light Side Paragon (Morality 71+) and not be a Jedi-in-good-standing. As for the color of her cleansed crystals, according to Dave Filoni that's due to her having forsworn her allegiance to the Jedi Order, thus no longer being quite as bound to their dogma as she'd been in her youth. And being at something of a spiritual crossroads at that point in her life when she reclaimed those crystals, they turned out white as a reflection of that.

5 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

One's status as a Jedi doesn't automatically correspond to where one sits on the Morality scale.

For instance, Qui-Gon Jinn was very much deemed to be a "grey Jedi" simply for not following the dictates of the Council or the letter of the Code, and yet he's probably one of the noblest and most light-aligned Jedi in the entire film series.

Mace Windu is considered to be a proper Jedi Knight, though I certainly wouldn't consider him to be a Light Side Paragon. Heck, the vast majority of the Jedi Order's rank and file probably wouldn't qualify as being Light Side Paragons in spite of strictly following the Jedi Code and fitting the proper mold of a Jedi Knight.

So it's a simple matter for Ahsoka to be a Light Side Paragon (Morality 71+) and not be a Jedi-in-good-standing. As for the color of her cleansed crystals, according to Dave Filoni that's due to her having forsworn her allegiance to the Jedi Order, thus no longer being quite as bound to their dogma as she'd been in her youth. And being at something of a spiritual crossroads at that point in her life when she reclaimed those crystals, they turned out white as a reflection of that.

Good points, all, Donovan.
Actually, now that you mention Mace Windu, it was he and his purple lightsabre that first made me anticipate the "Ahsoka effect" for lightsabre colours. I wondered if Windu's use of vapaad, and the subsequent "walking the fine line" he did edged his sabre toward red. Since purple is an even mix of blue and red, I sort of had a "head canon" whereby his sabre was once blue, and gradually changed over time.

Yeah, I know it was because Sam Jackson loves purple , but when I read about the "cleansing" of crystals and "bleeding" crystals in Ahsoka , I did get pretty excited!

On 8/26/2017 at 10:38 PM, HappyDaze said:

IIRC, I think it also suggests an optional D3 Discipline check to cleanse it.

That is an optional rule a GM can make, yes. IT is not absolutely necessary though.

2 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

That is an optional rule a GM can make, yes. IT is not absolutely necessary though.

The inclusion of corrupted crystals into the game is not absolutely necessary, especially if you think the Disney canon is on par with a donkey show.

On 8/24/2017 at 10:37 AM, kelpie said:

Ok... so i need to grab Disciple of Harmony...
or use an house rule

(and also i see is just a Discipline roll made by someone paragon...)

thanks!

I'd definitely make it an adventure arc in itself, sort of like destroying the One Ring in LOTR, but obviously WAY less intense and dragged out. But you could easily play up the dark alure of the crystal, constantly whispering to the new owner, trying to convince him to not cleanse it. I would suggest having the owner have to seek out and find a Force Vergence, preferably a Light Side oriented one, for obvious reasons. Perhaps while in the vergence, they can relive some of the deeds done by the crystal from it's previous owner, spectral images of people being killed. Perhaps the spiritual challenge for the new owner is that they relive these moments, and can FEEL the rush of the Dark Side as a result, a last ditch effort of the crystal to stay as it is. They have to resist the pull of the Dark, and do some other things of your choosing, but can eventually win out, and cleanse the crystal of it's taint.

Of course, that's probably attributing more personality to the crystals than most people might like to, but that's just me.

On 8/27/2017 at 0:18 PM, Donovan Morningfire said:

One's status as a Jedi doesn't automatically correspond to where one sits on the Morality scale.

For instance, Qui-Gon Jinn was very much deemed to be a "grey Jedi" simply for not following the dictates of the Council or the letter of the Code, and yet he's probably one of the noblest and most light-aligned Jedi in the entire film series.

Mace Windu is considered to be a proper Jedi Knight, though I certainly wouldn't consider him to be a Light Side Paragon. Heck, the vast majority of the Jedi Order's rank and file probably wouldn't qualify as being Light Side Paragons in spite of strictly following the Jedi Code and fitting the proper mold of a Jedi Knight.

So it's a simple matter for Ahsoka to be a Light Side Paragon (Morality 71+) and not be a Jedi-in-good-standing. As for the color of her cleansed crystals, according to Dave Filoni that's due to her having forsworn her allegiance to the Jedi Order, thus no longer being quite as bound to their dogma as she'd been in her youth. And being at something of a spiritual crossroads at that point in her life when she reclaimed those crystals, they turned out white as a reflection of that.

Exactly. If I remember correctly anyway, the Jedi Temple on Coruscant was built on Sith temple ruins and had actually been corrupting the Jedi slowly over years. I think this led to the Jedi becoming blind and so stiff in how they did things that they lost sight of the overall goals of the Jedi were originally. In game terms, I'd place most Jedi to have less than 70 Morality, with only a few like Obi-Wan and Yoda having a higher number.