It strikes me that one of the most difficult things about action bombs is that they can be dropped with perfect information by low PS pilots - i.e. before that pilot moves, you know full well where they're going to be and can drop a bomb on their position.

So, what if the bomb didn't go off when you did that, and only went off if a template went through it or a ship base landed on it *after* movement?

Would that go some way to letting low hull aces be less susceptible to bombs?

It seems like it might be a straightforward fix that wouldn't require any errata of any upgrades at all, just ref cards.

12 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

It strikes me that one of the most difficult things about action bombs is that they can be dropped with perfect information by low PS pilots - i.e. before that pilot moves, you know full well where they're going to be and can drop a bomb on their position.

So, what if the bomb didn't go off when you did that, and only went off if a template went through it or a ship base landed on it *after* movement?

Would that go some way to letting low hull aces be less susceptible to bombs?

It seems like it might be a straightforward fix that wouldn't require any errata of any upgrades at all, just ref cards.

So what do you do with a partial coverage, with the movement template on it? There's a reason it is what it is, and your rules wont alter much at all.

21 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

So what do you do with a partial coverage, with the movement template on it? There's a reason it is what it is, and your rules wont alter much at all.

?

I'm not sure what you mean.

With this proposal, if you drop a bomb under a ship, it doesn't go off. If the ship then moves and its template crosses the bomb when it does, the bomb goes off at that point.

It means you have to be a little more precise with your bomb dropping, and ships have the potential to dodge bombs better with advanced Sensors, Co-Ordinate etc along with repositioning actions.

It also means that bombs dropped on ships which have already moved this round, don't go off until next round at the latest, meaning that ship gets a chance to shoot this round before being exploded.

You mean like when bombs first came out? No one used them.

13 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

You mean like when bombs first came out? No one used them.

Which was (Proximity Mines in Slave 1) before Cad Bane, Sabine, Advanced SLAM, Advanced Sensors... before any of the things that now make action-bombing good.

8 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Which was (Proximity Mines in Slave 1) before Cad Bane, Sabine, Advanced SLAM, Advanced Sensors... before any of the things that now make action-bombing good.

On top of that, Prox Mines were only in Slave 1, so were very expensive and difficult to mass.

Cudos @thespaceinvader for thinking creatively and, I'd say, logically! Seems to me that a ship dropping a bomb (a non-propelled non-self-manuverable entity) would easily be picked up visually by the enemy pilot and by his ship's systems and logically, some moment of split-second evasive action could occur. Let's be honest, in the game these action bombs are being used like something akin to unavoidable missiles, whereas it seems bombs are meant to act more like mines, denying open lanes or, at times, being placed right where the enemy cannot avoid without special game-play mechanics --as @thespaceinvader has stated above. Everything in a game needs a counter to be possibly selected during squad building, this idea reinforces that fun part of the game. I like your thoughts sir, keep up the good work; this game is struggling at its core and desperately needs some revising, and creative thinkers are going to be the ones that save it.

Would be good, except it nerfs Deathrain and Deathfire T_T

3 minutes ago, Chibi-Nya said:

Would be good, except it nerfs Deathrain and Deathfire T_T

Deathrain has a new best friend in Bomblet Generator anyway.

Deathfire is a good point. But I'd take Deathfire being a bit worse for a chance to get Soontir back.

1 minute ago, Chibi-Nya said:

Would be good, except it nerfs Deathrain and Deathfire T_T

I think the rational for these thoughts are directed at Miranda and Nym....sadly Imp Bombers would get caught up and made even weaker due to any attempts at slowing the bombing of these two OPs.

12 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

I think the rational for these thoughts are directed at Miranda and Nym....sadly Imp Bombers would get caught up and made even weaker due to any attempts at slowing the bombing of these two OPs.

Mostly at ASLAM Wardens actually.

But realistically, at making the game more about predicting your opponent's movements and out-tactics-ing them. Removing states in the game where significant damage can be done with absolutely no guesswork.

I agree, the game has drastically departed from a Star Wars fighter pilot planning, guessing and hoping movement and shoot dogfighting game that drew us in. It's becoming Something completely different; sad panda comes to mind....☹️☹️☹️

Isn't this problem the same kinda thing that got the OP Phantom nerfed? Knowing your opponents position then doing something they couldn't counter?

What about Intel Agent? That card should be use once and disgard at best. Didn't Heaver say something like 'dials are the only thing that must be kept sacred?'

Yeah, all players MUST have a choice to "do or not do" there should be no looking at dials or unavoidable damage; that's not a fun game mechanic for both players and therefore is game cancer that will eventually kill it.

I think this proposal is an excellent compromise for Advanced SLAM. Give fragile ships a chance to fight, and the bomb will still frequently detonate on the victim's next activation. It also gives the opposing player a chance to trigger the bomb with a lower pilot ship to preserve higher pilot skill ship.

25 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

I agree, the game has drastically departed from a Star Wars fighter pilot planning, guessing and hoping movement and shoot dogfighting game that drew us in. It's becoming Something completely different; sad panda comes to mind....☹️☹️☹️

Isn't this problem the same kinda thing that got the OP Phantom nerfed? Knowing your opponents position then doing something they couldn't counter?

What about Intel Agent? That card should be use once and disgard at best. Didn't Heaver say something like 'dials are the only thing that must be kept sacred?'

Yeah, all players MUST have a choice to "do or not do" there should be no looking at dials or unavoidable damage; that's not a fun game mechanic for both players and therefore is game cancer that will eventually kill it.

you can actually absolutely do something about it: plan ahead for where the opponent is going to be and going to drop the bomb

Best things to do: put something fat between the bomber and your fragile bomb-prone ship so they can't bomb you. Failing that, fly a phantom and decloak away before the bomber can move

it's only ASLAM that gets silly with all the possible positioning elements

bombs are great because, unlike turrets, they're based entirely on maneuvering and positioning and they change up the game dynamic and flow a lot which is great for variety's sake

I think after adv slam gets nerfed, bombs will be "normal again" other than cheese-ball Scum Nym + genius (seriously, wtf FFG?). If you get soontir in range 2 of a kbomber that can 3 bank over you and drop a bomb you deserve to die.

Without adv slam, a simple boost or b-roll can keep you out of harms way of most bombers. They are gonna have to take Experimental Interface that then stresses them, which is a fix a lot of people wanted anyhow with Adv Slam causing a stress.

Revert the rule change! Good idea!

4 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

I agree, the game has drastically departed from a Star Wars fighter pilot planning, guessing and hoping movement and shoot dogfighting game that drew us in. It's becoming Something completely different; sad panda comes to mind....☹️☹️☹️

Isn't this problem the same kinda thing that got the OP Phantom nerfed? Knowing your opponents position then doing something they couldn't counter?

What about Intel Agent? That card should be use once and disgard at best. Didn't Heaver say something like 'dials are the only thing that must be kept sacred?'

Yeah, all players MUST have a choice to "do or not do" there should be no looking at dials or unavoidable damage; that's not a fun game mechanic for both players and therefore is game cancer that will eventually kill it.

Intel Agent is OP? Wow I guess we are going to have to nerf saboteur soon.

Like this idea, still gonna be unavoidable most of the time but at least the chance is there to dodge

3 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Intel Agent is OP? Wow I guess we are going to have to nerf saboteur soon.

Well, as far as not being able to have your dial secret from your opponent, it's kinda not fun; like a Manaroo with Rigged Cargo or now a Jumpmaster with Bombs. Well, the real bad time is when you play against two or three large base ships at one time and they all have Intel agent. I'm not saying it is top of the Meta lists, I'm just saying, when you play against that, it feels like you aren't really playing as you don't get to secretly set your dials.....might as well let your opponent help set them and leave them face up......Like Fairship, it's just not fun.

45 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

Well, as far as not being able to have your dial secret from your opponent, it's kinda not fun; like a Manaroo with Rigged Cargo or now a Jumpmaster with Bombs. Well, the real bad time is when you play against two or three large base ships at one time and they all have Intel agent. I'm not saying it is top of the Meta lists, I'm just saying, when you play against that, it feels like you aren't really playing as you don't get to secretly set your dials.....might as well let your opponent help set them and leave them face up......Like Fairship, it's just not fun.

News Flash: When you are pilot skill 9, the dials are no longer a secret.

3 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

News Flash: When you are pilot skill 9, the dials are no longer a secret.

But when you set them, they were, and if you guessed wrong, you don't get to do your thing.

7 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

But when you set them, they were, and if you guessed wrong, you don't get to do your thing.

Unless you have both boost and barrel roll then it isn't that much of a problem. Face it the whole dial guessing part of the game is like the shell game in netrunner. It could still be there but there really isn't a lot of surprises anymore, the hidden part of the game play has either become predictable or has plenty of workarounds. Wave 4 already buried the guessing aspect of X-wing minatures. Also the idea that a ship cannot escape its own firing arc makes it so that once a higher pilot skill get on the 6 of a lower pilot skill that ship would not be shaking it so there will be no wrong guesses.

Yeah I get it you have your niche but there is a meta build that kills it. I know of one called Snap Juke Greens where as soon as you move they get to attack and remove an evade result and you can't do anything about it. But it isn't something that can't be played around. IF you are getting wrecked by Sigma squadron pilots then you do need to learn to fly better. After all they aren't jumpmasters so you really have no room to complain about something that hasn't even been in the top cut of tournaments.

Yeah @Marinealver, but having a player be able to just look at your dial any turn they wish; that's a terrible game experience. Technically, he's the only one playing, I'm like, "thanks mate, but I've got better things to do with my down time, I'm leaving, catch you later"......that's my take.

5 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

Yeah @Marinealver, but having a player be able to just look at your dial any turn they wish; that's a terrible game experience. Technically, he's the only one playing, I'm like, "thanks mate, but I've got better things to do with my down time, I'm leaving, catch you later"......that's my take.

hence Whisper with VI before the decloak nerf. If you are leaving, well I heard Armada is a good game to get into.

7 hours ago, Marinealver said:

hence Whisper with VI before the decloak nerf. If you are leaving, well I heard Armada is a good game to get into.

Oh I'm not leaving the game mate, I'll just have free will and choose not to play a single sided game. I wouldn't do that to others and I trust others will not do that to me. Locals around here don't play games where only one side gets to choose to play; if one player has no options (can't get unblocked or cannot select a move that will not be known before they are supposed to reveal it over and over) then logically, it's failed to be a game. So just do what the designers refuse to do, don't let those dynamics that create a one-player game get into X-Wing when selecting squads, or if you choose those synergies, let the other poor bloke out if he wishes because that's his personal time he's investing into the game and you....it's supposed to be fun for two fellows, not simply one. ?