Hey guys and gals!

I've GM'd about 5 or 6 games from the FFG Star Wars RPG books and my PCs have loved it. I'm about to launch my first force user campaign and since one of my PCs never got a chance to play the SWtOR MMORPG, we've decided to run our campaign through the Old Republic universe.

This all started because he really wanted to play a Sith, which, would have been very difficult to explain, balance, and maintain in an Original Trilogy era setting. I had considered doing clone wars era, as it was relatively close to the core books in terms of time, and there were some Sithy folks about but the rest of the party didn't want to play in the clone wars era, which left some rather dull options skirting the edges of the war.

We decided it would be fun to go into the Old Republic war with the Sith.

Then one player (The veteran GM of the group) suggested we trying playing from the side of the Sith Empire. The other PCs loved the idea so we ran with it. Depending on what the Sith character chose (mirrored from the Jedi careers and specializations in the core book), we would run the class quests of that Sith class from SWtOR. So far, it has worked out great. The Sith player wanted to do a saber-staff wielding Zabrak (Totally Not Darth Maul), that could tank and still deal DPS. So we built his "Sith Inquisitor" off the Jedi Consular career, and had him specialize as an "Assassin" which is the Niman tree.


The way we've constructed the party is:
-The Sith
party leader, will be the main combatant, should be able to tank and deal damage well enough
-Imperial reclamation service officer
(NPC diplomat analyst) this character is the knowledge base. He's familiar with Sith tombs, ancient traps/weapons, has a good computer skill, and basic piloting skills.
-Medical science officer
He specializes in experimental stims and robotics...(engineer scientist crossed with colonist doctor specializations) (Think Doctor Kreiger in alien form).
-Beast rider Ace
tracker, survivalist, trickster, in charge of getting the party through the various dangerous areas Sith ruins are located in.



Here's my only dilemma, the Sith and Jedi of the Old Republic were much more in tune with the force than the movie canon characters. A level 20 SWtOR Sith character would have a force rating of at least 3 and would likely start the game at 2.... We're starting the campaign in the level 15-16 area of the game, which in most aspects should balance out, but if our main combatant can't use Protect/Unleash (force lightning) until late game, I feel like our games are going to be a little dull. (as it would take him two full specialization trees to reach what was considered a base power in the OR era).

I'm thinking about having the party recover a Sith holocron on their first mission that will grant +1 force rating to the Sith so he only has to fill out his current tree to reach 3, meaning 3-4 missions.

given the conditions, do you think it'd work?

Just up the "starting" xp and say they aren'the newbs. In comparison to rcr d20 550 xp would be about level 7 (d20 rcr) which is knight level (under d20 rcr) and starting consular should certainly be enough to get you to force rating 3. BTW he might want to consider a consular/sentry build (sentry is in endless vigil, and would provide the sneaky side of assassin, but maybe you meant ascetic rather than assassin?)

I'm with Elias, just up the starting XP and run a more challenging campaign. I've found this to be a bit more fun since now we're talking groups of Rivals and multiple Nemseses for the party to take on which provides a challenge for them as well as for me. ~500 XP is about right, when I get my group going again this is where we were.

My group did this last year and here's our takeaway:

• 150XP is hardly "Knight" level, it's not even really Padawan level. I realize the game designers intended it this way (ie they didn't want PCs to be able to do everything), but most people playing may not realize it: to create a character that can do what most basic force-users in the movies/TV shows can do will require several hundred XP. Jedi/Sith masters are 1500+ easily.
• Any PC that has undergone any sort of official training process should either be given outright or given XP specifically to buy the base power in Sense, Move, and Enhance. We felt like almost every Jedi/Sith in canon could do those at will, and it felt weird when you had a 600 XP character with Force Rating 3 or so who couldn't even move a pebble with the force because they never bothered to take that power.
• One cool thing our GM did was for characters that used their force powers extensively or creatively during a session or faced some kind of Jedi-worthy challenge well, he would give us "Force" XP along with normal XP. We could only use the Force XP on force powers or upgrades (we could also use regular XP as well obviously). Something like 5 Force XP per session, max 10 if we just went really nuts.
• Whenever we were staying at the Jedi temple on Coruscant (sp?), which usually wasn't for a long period, our GM would make all skills temporarily count as Class skills while there (to simulate having access to superior tools/methods of learning).

It was a lot of fun!

2 minutes ago, Khoram said:

My group did this last year and here's our takeaway:

• 150XP is hardly "Knight" level, it's not even really Padawan level. I realize the game designers intended it this way (ie they didn't want PCs to be able to do everything), but most people playing may not realize it: to create a character that can do what most basic force-users in the movies/TV shows can do will require several hundred XP. Jedi/Sith masters are 1500+ easily.
• Any PC that has undergone any sort of official training process should either be given outright or given XP specifically to buy the base power in Sense, Move, and Enhance. We felt like almost every Jedi/Sith in canon could do those at will, and it felt weird when you had a 600 XP character with Force Rating 3 or so who couldn't even move a pebble with the force because they never bothered to take that power.
• One cool thing our GM did was for characters that used their force powers extensively or creatively during a session or faced some kind of Jedi-worthy challenge well, he would give us "Force" XP along with normal XP. We could only use the Force XP on force powers or upgrades (we could also use regular XP as well obviously). Something like 5 Force XP per session, max 10 if we just went really nuts.
• Whenever we were staying at the Jedi temple on Coruscant (sp?), which usually wasn't for a long period, our GM would make all skills temporarily count as Class skills while there (to simulate having access to superior tools/methods of learning).

It was a lot of fun!

Did your party have any non-force users? I'm just wondering if the force user should be seeing a larger XP boost, as survival tests, computer hacking, healing, crafting and other support actions outside of combat would basically be auto successes if the setting wasn't appropriately scaled.... which at 500+ XP would need to be fairly advanced I'd think?

Maybe do the force user at 300 XP so they can buy into each force power tree they need (I'm using the force XP idea you mentioned, thanks for that!) and then give everyone else like 150 so they can fill out most of their career spec?

I want them to have some skills but not be too strong. Especially the scientist. Crafting can get really broken in this game, I don't want him sitting on a mountain of hand crafted high quality grenades or something silly...

No we specifically made a party of Padawans essentially, so we were all Force users. I agree about crafting getting out of hand; I played an Armorer with 4 int and 4 brawn and he was amazing at crafting. I think our GM played a little fast and loose with the crafting rules, though, so if you're worried about it, just stick to the rules as written and resist the urge to make it easy for your PCs.

I also like the force XP idea, I run a mixed group and would have to consider what I can do to help balance Force XP with something for the normies.

Everyone should get the same xp +/- small bonus xp for good role-playing.

On 8/4/2017 at 2:37 PM, Darth Sanguis said:

Did your party have any non-force users? I'm just wondering if the force user should be seeing a larger XP boost, as survival tests, computer hacking, healing, crafting and other support actions outside of combat would basically be auto successes if the setting wasn't appropriately scaled.... which at 500+ XP would need to be fairly advanced I'd think?

Maybe do the force user at 300 XP so they can buy into each force power tree they need (I'm using the force XP idea you mentioned, thanks for that!) and then give everyone else like 150 so they can fill out most of their career spec?

I want them to have some skills but not be too strong. Especially the scientist. Crafting can get really broken in this game, I don't want him sitting on a mountain of hand crafted high quality grenades or something silly...

I ran (well, husband was the GM) swtor era game a few years back, when Force and Destiny was just the Beta book. We gave my Jedi and the Mando we had grouped with us an extra 300 xp, to reflect the training and RP that had accorded in game.

Meanwhile, we had three characters that started off at the base XP. The Jedi and Mando got a little less experience than the starter guys as the game went on, but honestly, there didn't seem to be that big of a difference in who was overpowered, because each character had their own strengths and the characters didn't overlap one another. We had a Jedi mechanic, daka-daka Mando, a smuggler pilot, a sneaky miraluka thief, and a med droid. Honestly, the smuggler was the real star and hero of the campaign. As long as the characters don't overlap or outshine each other, then you should be okay with a mixture of XPs, just make sure the rest of the party is okay with it.

In regards to Force powers, we let my Jedi buy the basic ranks of Force Powers for 5 xp less, to reflect the fact that Force Usage wasn't forbidden, and thus, she had a teacher and years of experience and allowed her to buy an additional Force Rating for I believe 15 XP. (It's been a while since that game!)

If you want characters to have extra XP to reflect their backstories and training, go on ahead. I think 150 is a great way to reflect someone who has done their job for a few years, if not longer. But you can always adjust it as you see fit. Maybe after people have spent the extra 150, you can look at their sheets and go 'yeah, you guys can use some more xp', but that's your call!

Have fun with the game! The swtor era is such a fun place to roleplay in, it's one of my prefered settings, but minus the whole Zakuul thing (feels like some weird Star Wars AU), and there is a lot you can do in it.

On 8/3/2017 at 8:48 PM, Darth Sanguis said:

This all started because he really wanted to play a Sith, which, would have been very difficult to explain, balance, and maintain in an Original Trilogy era setting. I had considered doing clone wars era, as it was relatively close to the core books in terms of time, and there were some Sithy folks about but the rest of the party didn't want to play in the clone wars era, which left some rather dull options skirting the edges of the war.

It would. We've had an Original Trilogy party of Dark-sider force users, though - which works, broadly, just as well as light side force users. Neither are specifically 'jedi' (because order 66) or 'sith' (because "whilst you may fight like a sith, wear the trappings of the sith, you are not sith" , to quote Darth Tyrannus)

It still makes an Inquisitor turning up no less scary.

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Then one player (The veteran GM of the group) suggested we trying playing from the side of the Sith Empire. The other PCs loved the idea so we ran with it.

Indeed. That period is an interesting place, because it's one of relatively few times that the wars are between two truly equal military factions.

On 8/3/2017 at 8:48 PM, Darth Sanguis said:

Beast rider Ace
tracker, survivalist, trickster, in charge of getting the party through the various dangerous areas Sith ruins are located in.

The Sith (certainly in Naga Sadow's era, and later in Darth Sidious' era) did like their force-corrupted monsters. If you're actually supposed to be part of the sith empire, then they might also be a rather useful 'handler' for some attack dog analogues.

On 8/3/2017 at 8:48 PM, Darth Sanguis said:

Here's my only dilemma, the Sith and Jedi of the Old Republic were much more in tune with the force than the movie canon characters. A level 20 SWtOR Sith character would have a force rating of at least 3 and would likely start the game at 2.... We're starting the campaign in the level 15-16 area of the game, which in most aspects should balance out, but if our main combatant can't use Protect/Unleash (force lightning) until late game, I feel like our games are going to be a little dull. (as it would take him two full specialization trees to reach what was considered a base power in the OR era).

To be honest, this is something I'm not a fan of in the MMORPG; because everyone "had to be the hero of their own story" you ended up with a universe full of darth sidiouses. The faintly ridiculous level of power that sith get ascribed in things like the Darth Bane novels makes them far less interesting to me, and there's no real reason you have to be able to throw force lightning to be impressive - after all, Darth Vader managed to top more than one list of "Most Menacing Movie Villain Ever" with nothing more than the Coercion Skill, Scathing Tirade, Force Power: Move and a glow-bat.

On 8/3/2017 at 8:48 PM, Darth Sanguis said:

I'm thinking about having the party recover a Sith holocron on their first mission that will grant +1 force rating to the Sith so he only has to fill out his current tree to reach 3, meaning 3-4 missions.

I think that's a pretty huge boost for the Sith, and given that none of the other listed players are force users, my immediate response is "what do they get?", because this is a storyline that feels like it could quickly turn into "I'm the big darn hero and these are my hangers-on" (depending on the players, of course).

+1 Force Rating is big, but not especially out of scale for a holocron effect. Bear in mind that if it's actually channelling the force, rather than just providing additional skill, it may be more appropriate for it to be a sith talisman of some kind. That's power, not knowledge.

We've played a few games in the old republic era, and used "knight level" characters as reasonably well-trained padawans and it doesn't feel especially out of character - nemesis-level 'knights' using Fallen Master, Forsaken Jedi or Inquisitor archetypes are still scary without huge arsenals of force powers.

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

The Sith (certainly in Naga Sadow's era, and later in Darth Sidious' era) did like their force-corrupted monsters. If you're actually supposed to be part of the sith empire, then they might also be a rather useful 'handler' for some attack dog analogues.

Eventually the party will be visiting Voss, so there should be no shortage of force corrupted nightmare critters for her to wrangle. lol

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

To be honest, this is something I'm not a fan of in the MMORPG; because everyone "had to be the hero of their own story" you ended up with a universe full of darth sidiouses. The faintly ridiculous level of power that sith get ascribed in things like the Darth Bane novels makes them far less interesting to me, and there's no real reason you have to be able to throw force lightning to be impressive - after all, Darth Vader managed to top more than one list of "Most Menacing Movie Villain Ever" with nothing more than the Coercion Skill, Scathing Tirade, Force Power: Move and a glow-bat.

While your overall point is true, I don't consider Darth Vader a Sith. The canon calls him one and the EU gave him a little bit of a Sithy nature, but he's not like ole papa Palpatine. At the very best Vader was a fallen Jedi who Sidious manipulated into servitude.

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I think that's a pretty huge boost for the Sith, and given that none of the other listed players are force users, my immediate response is "what do they get?", because this is a storyline that feels like it could quickly turn into "I'm the big darn hero and these are my hangers-on" (depending on the players, of course).

+1 Force Rating is big, but not especially out of scale for a holocron effect. Bear in mind that if it's actually channelling the force, rather than just providing additional skill, it may be more appropriate for it to be a sith talisman of some kind. That's power, not knowledge.

The way I plan on running it, is the force user gets the +1, but since the party is reporting to the Sith's master, as they're all under her direct command, the other characters will get the reward credits, and a small XP boost. Since I'm gonna implement the "force xp" idea pitched in the thread above, I don't think he's going to out grow the other characters. He gets all the abilities a moderately trained Sith apprentice would have, but has to actually actively use them to grow their power... I should be able to balance it.

Plus, due to the nature of the game, for every bit he'll exceed at, he'll have weak points force powers can't help. Our engineer, diplomat and ace, make up all the areas a Sith bent of being powerful doesn't have. Knowledge, healing, survival, slicing, computers, astrogation, piloting.

The Sith by himself, may be able to take on most of the baddies in the tombs, but I doubt he'd be able to solve any of the puzzles or open any doors.