@Wazat Don't worry about what others think. Just do your best, use your own eyes, use your own logical judgement, and play by the rules. If you succeed when doing all this and people have a problem of any kind, it is not about you, it is about them.

And even if you did "netlist" the wookiee squad: so what?!!!!!!

That's like looking at the NFL and complaining that all the teams are "netlisting" the idea of having Wide Receivers, or Slant Routes. If you are having fun and getting what you want out of the game by playing a list you read about online or heard about on a podcast, then you're doing it right.

Yea, it's probably going to be fine. Maybe a few people will be salty but I'm sure the rest will be pretty nice.

I got absolutely rinsed playing my 3 wookies with Exp/Tac/Breach by a Bossk/IG88B Gunner list.

I made a series of incorrect decisions as I'd never flown against that combo before, but it turns out that reinforce isn't the correct choice when Bossk is trying to force a double tap by missing his initial primary shot. Also, I should have killed the IG first, as it weakens the Bossk combo ... as it was, I lost fast and hard.

It does seem to me that the list either wins fast, or loses fast, and basically depends on the first few turns plus deployment. When I've lost hard, it has always been following a mistake in deployment/turn 1 (Jousting when I should manoeuvre for position is normally the mistake).

When I win, it is when the opponent makes a mistake that leaves them all in range 2 of all three ships...

Still I'm intrigued by the possibilities of the combo. I will confess that thus far, the predator/breach/tactician combo with one updaraded to wulf is my favourite variant. Seemed more reliable than expertise.

On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 1:17 PM, gennataos said:

@Wazat - ****, I'd take that as a compliment. You should be more than slightly validated. You started this thread at the beginning of August, that's three and a half months ago. There are entire metas which don't last that long. I didn't start following the thread until the end of September, two months after you started it, and I felt I was at the local forefront of wookies. That was also around the same time I started hearing on podcasts that wookies were getting popular on Vassal.

If your local group is really than antagonistic to claim that you basically netlisted, you can point them to this thread with a cross reference to List Juggler to show that you were flying triple wookies well before they became any sort of meta force. You may not have invented the list, but you certainly didn't snag it off the net, much less as an established powerhouse list. If they're bitter, tell them to recognize and fly a powerful list before the highly competitive hive mind latches on it.

What he means to say is, please don't try and take credit for a list we clearly kraytvented

KRAYTS INVETED EVERYTHING

YOU'RE WELCOME FOR SHARING THE TRIPLE WOOKIE LIST WITH YOU THREE MONTHS IN THE PAST OR WHATEVER

16 minutes ago, Brunas said:

What he means to say is, please don't try and take credit for a list we clearly kraytvented

KRAYTS INVETED EVERYTHING

YOU'RE WELCOME FOR SHARING THE TRIPLE WOOKIE LIST WITH YOU THREE MONTHS IN THE PAST OR WHATEVER

Don't worry, @Wazat ...credit (blame) will be placed squarely on your shoulders when @Brunas fails to make stage 2 this weekend with your "scrub-*** wookie bull".

Haha, I'll happily take the infamy.

22 hours ago, Dreadai said:

Still I'm intrigued by the possibilities of the combo. I will confess that thus far, the predator/breach/tactician combo with one upgraded to wulf is my favorite variant. Seemed more reliable than expertise.

I tried this list last night against a Cracken/Wedge/Ors combo and was one hull shy on Jan Ors of winning the game before I lost my last ship. Highlight of the match was when my damaged Wulf caught an undamaged, tokenless Wedge in a head on... err, side on pass, at range 1 and one shot him with 3 hits and 2 crits against Wedge's 2 focuses. Need to get in more practice with the list of course but I think it will become my tournament list. With stress being thrown about liberally in the current Meta, I think Predator is a better choice right now instead of Expertise.

I played a game, in our National champioships, 3 Auzitucks, vs each other, i had Predator and Tactician, he had Expertise, both lists were 100pts, but I won, as I took initiative, giving me the chance to shoot and stress his ships, makinfg his Expertise irrelevant.

Lately, I have been playing with Braylan and Lowrich and a Liberator, the 2 Auzitucks with tactician, and Braylen with gunner R3-A2, works very very well

@Brunas has made cut at Mandalore flying

Lowhhrick (Pred/C-3PO/Tactician)

2xLiberators (Expertise/Tactician)

which is nice.

Edit - he is standing alone in an ocean of Shadowcasters like Moses on the shores of the Red Sea... AKA top 4

4 hours ago, Dreadai said:

@Brunas has made cut at Mandalore flying

Lowhhrick (Pred/C-3PO/Tactician)

2xLiberators (Expertise/Tactician)

which is nice.

Edit - he is standing alone in an ocean of Shadowcasters like Moses on the shores of the Red Sea... AKA top 4

Interesting tweak. My current iteration is Pred/Breach/Tactician on the liberators and that same Lowhhrick.

I think I prefer yours, but I can’t argue with other variant going to top 4 at a system open.

49 minutes ago, Dreadai said:

I think I prefer yours, but I can’t argue with other variant going to top 4 at a system open.

I agree, but I have no pedigree whatsoever.

Say @Brunas ... On Mynocks, you were saying that the 0.2 extra damage from expertise over Predator for the additional point was a no brainer, and for damage output, I agree ... I have found in flying wookiees that the biggest threat is receiving crits, and dropping to Predator frees up the points to put Breach Specialist on your liberators.

Did you test Pred/Tac/Breach at all, or do you discount defensive upgrades as being for *******?

Managed to get in another three games last night with our local group with Wulf + 2 Liberators (Pred/Tact/Breach on all 3). Lost 1 ship across the three games, it was super good still. Putting 6 damage into Miranda in one shot with Wulf was very satisfying. Definitely agree that Predator is probably the right way to go, at least for the moment with Asajj seemingly quite prominent in the meta.

Taking early damage on one ship (1 or 2 rounds of fire), then switching to focus actions on the other two as soon as that happens seems to be approach that's working best for me and pumping out the damage. Predator and Focus is almost always three hits. Lowhhrick is still good too, but he's a bit of a liability in a Harpoon matchup, at least that's my thought process anyhow. Being able to split the three ships up more freely has been working wonders of late. Nothing like catching Miranda or Nym between all 3 ships with nowhere for them to go.

2 minutes ago, Red42 said:

Managed to get in another three games last night with our local group with Wulf + 2 Liberators (Pred/Tact/Breach on all 3). Lost 1 ship across the three games, it was super good still. Putting 6 damage into Miranda in one shot with Wulf was very satisfying. Definitely agree that Predator is probably the right way to go, at least for the moment with Asajj seemingly quite prominent in the meta.

Taking early damage on one ship (1 or 2 rounds of fire), then switching to focus actions on the other two as soon as that happens seems to be approach that's working best for me and pumping out the damage. Predator and Focus is almost always three hits. Lowhhrick is still good too, but he's a bit of a liability in a Harpoon matchup, at least that's my thought process anyhow. Being able to split the three ships up more freely has been working wonders of late. Nothing like catching Miranda or Nym between all 3 ships with nowhere for them to go.

You can treat Lowhhrick like a higher PS Liberator. Use his ability if your matchup allows, don't if it doesn't.

16 hours ago, gennataos said:

You can treat Lowhhrick like a higher PS Liberator. Use his ability if your matchup allows, don't if it doesn't.

Very much this - against harpoons, don't let the condition scare you. Split one up in a place that's awkward for them to get the harpoon alpha off. More importantly, even if the condition goes off, if it only hits one extra ship (say you make them go into a liberator, because low is out of range). If it pops once, you still come out ahead, because you've split the incoming damage across multiple ships. The ship takes one less because of lows ability, then the condition going off effectively just moves that damage you prevented to low. I straight jousted harpoons with low and a liberator, had the other liberator flank, it works fine. It doesn't feel good, but they'll die before you in all but the most extreme cases

19 hours ago, Dreadai said:

Say @Brunas ... On Mynocks, you were saying that the 0.2 extra damage from expertise over Predator for the additional point was a no brainer, and for damage output, I agree ... I have found in flying wookiees that the biggest threat is receiving crits, and dropping to Predator frees up the points to put Breach Specialist on your liberators.

Did you test Pred/Tac/Breach at all, or do you discount defensive upgrades as being for *******?

I would take a bid over breach specialist.

Here's the conditions where breach specialist is useful and ever worth it to proc:

1. It has to be a crit that's relevant (about half of the deck)

2. It has the be the last incoming attack of the round (or you'd never spend your reinforce)

3. You have to still have the reinforce token (can't have already spent it with low).

If I could run 103 points with extra crew, I think I could have successfully used breach specialist maybe once? And it would have been against raco, which I tabled anyways...

But yeah, I strongly recommend expertise over predator because -

Expertise Range 2:

0	0.015625
1	0.140625
2	0.421875
3	0.421875
Expected Damage	2.25
Crit Chance	0.330078125
Expected Crits	0.375

Predator Range 2:

0	0.0625
1	0.25
2	0.375
3	0.3125
Expected Damage	1.9375
Crit Chance	0.4072265625
Expected Crits	0.484375

Expertise Range 1:

0	0.00390625
1	0.046875
2	0.2109375
3	0.421875
4	0.31640625
Expected Damage	3
Crit Chance	0.413818359375
Expected Crits	0.5

Predator Range 1:

0	0.03125
1	0.15625
2	0.3125
3	0.3125
4	0.1875
Expected Damage	2.46875
Crit Chance	0.484619140625
Expected Crits	0.6171875

A lot of the time your opponent's only safe space from stress **** is range 1, so that extra .5 damage per shot from expertise adds up really quickly

@Brunas thanks for taking time out to reply ... it's appreciated.

6 hours ago, Brunas said:

I would take a bid over breach specialist.

Here's the conditions where breach specialist is useful and ever worth it to proc:

1. It has to be a crit that's relevant (about half of the deck)

2. It has the be the last incoming attack of the round (or you'd never spend your reinforce)

3. You have to still have the reinforce token (can't have already spent it with low).

If I could run 103 points with extra crew, I think I could have successfully used breach specialist maybe once? And it would have been against raco, which I tabled anyways...

But yeah, I strongly recommend expertise over predator because -

(math stuff)

I get that in a vacuum with the cards alone, math puts Expertise over Predator. Were there never times where you already had a beat up wookie, and wouldn't have felt comfortable just taking focus with the other two? You lose damage mitigation if they move fire to a focused wookie, but they're also splitting fire if they do so. Meanwhile, you have focus/Pred shots with two wookies.

57 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I get that in a vacuum with the cards alone, math puts Expertise over Predator. Were there never times where you already had a beat up wookie, and wouldn't have felt comfortable just taking focus with the other two? You lose damage mitigation if they move fire to a focused wookie, but they're also splitting fire if they do so. Meanwhile, you have focus/Pred shots with two wookies.

Generally, not really? The main problem is that if I got to decide at high PS which actions to take, I'd agree and be in on predator. But generally we should be abusing the fact that they're basically super turrets and make it hard for them to concentrate fire in general, which means oftentimes you have to take the safe play for the triple reinforce because while you probably know which one they'll be on that turn and from where, if you're wrong you basically just lose the game

7 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Generally, not really? The main problem is that if I got to decide at high PS which actions to take, I'd agree and be in on predator. But generally we should be abusing the fact that they're basically super turrets and make it hard for them to concentrate fire in general, which means oftentimes you have to take the safe play for the triple reinforce because while you probably know which one they'll be on that turn and from where, if you're wrong you basically just lose the game

What about as a safe play to counter our impending Asajj meta (which you know is coming after Mandalore) and the Expertise wookie mirror match?

More importantly, is there room for Bistan in these wookie lists?

[edit] - Actually...****, with five ships dropping in a couple weeks, maybe there won't be an impending Asajj meta.

19 minutes ago, gennataos said:

What about as a safe play to counter our impending Asajj meta (which you know is coming after Mandalore) and the Expertise wookie mirror match?

More importantly, is there room for Bistan in these wookie lists?

[edit] - Actually...****, with five ships dropping in a couple weeks, maybe there won't be an impending Asajj meta.

Actually, thinking about it more you might be right. I'm super out on breach specialist, but there's this awesome card called intel agent...

I can't find a way to make two fit other than triple predator though, which I think I'm out on.

5 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Actually, thinking about it more you might be right. I'm super out on breach specialist, but there's this awesome card called intel agent...

I can't find a way to make two fit other than triple predator though, which I think I'm out on.

Wookiee Liberator — Auzituck Gunship	26
Predator	3
Tactician	2
Intelligence Agent	1
Ship Total: 32
Wookiee Liberator — Auzituck Gunship	26
Predator	3
Tactician	2
Intelligence Agent	1
Ship Total: 32
Lowhhrick — Auzituck Gunship	28
Predator	3
Tactician	2
C-3PO	3
Ship Total: 36

Yeah, I like that. If nothing else, you're no longer guessing whether to reinforce the fore or aft. As a Predator pusher, I really like it.

4 hours ago, gennataos said:

I get that in a vacuum with the cards alone, math puts Expertise over Predator. Were there never times where you already had a beat up wookie, and wouldn't have felt comfortable just taking focus with the other two? You lose damage mitigation if they move fire to a focused wookie, but they're also splitting fire if they do so. Meanwhile, you have focus/Pred shots with two wookies.

^So much this. When I was playing earlier in the week I'd reinforce until one wookiee was 3 or so damage in, then only reinforce on that ship and focus the other two. They either have to continue to focus on the damaged one or spread damage around (which is never a good strategy). Then your other two have double-modded shots which is super powerful.

I can see the merits in Expertise, don't get me wrong. The basic maths don't lie. It was only a small sample size, but it felt like I was pumping out a much higher volume of hits with this strategy than I would have been with just Expertise, or just reinforcing all the time on all 3 and relying on Predator.

Can't argue with the fact either that @Brunas made top 4 at the system open with Expertise, though. Intel Agent is a neat idea and maybe one I might explore next. There are definitely those couple of rounds a game against slippery enemies where you're not quite sure which side of the ship to re-inforce, and so that'd certainly be of value. Breach Specialist seems okay, but it's not giving me a huge amount of use so far. Again, admittedly a small sample size.

If I’m not sure which side to reinforce (or I know they can barrel roll out of the relevant arc) I opt to rear. That way they choose between unanswered attack against a reinforced section or an answered attack against an unreinforced section. Reinforcing front in that scenario gives them a simple choice.

But yeah intel agent looks super useful,