I'm getting more and more enamored with the idea of triple Wookies. So many slight variations which all seem good on paper.

Wookiee Liberator (26)
Predator (3)
Tactician (2)
Breach Specialist (1)

Wullffwarro (30)
Predator (3)
Tactician (2)
Breach Specialist (1)

Wookiee Liberator (26)
Predator (3)
Tactician (2)
Breach Specialist (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Wookiee Liberator (26)
Predator (3)
Tactician (2)
Breach Specialist (1)

Wullffwarro (30)
Rage (1)
Tactician (2)
C-3PO (3)

Wookiee Liberator (26)
Predator (3)
Tactician (2)
Breach Specialist (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Predator is interesting because it opens up your action bar. With something like Expertise, there's no reason not to Reinforce every turn, even if you aren't going to get shot, which wastes the action. With Predator, you'd be able to add to your offense in situations where you don't need to Reinforce. You lose 0.3 hits per attack when you Reinforce, and gain 0.4 hits per attack when you Focus.

3 Dice: 1.5 hits

3 Dice with Predator: 1.94 hits

3 Dice with Expertise: 2.25 hits

3 Dice with Predator and Focus: 2.68 hits

So I played a couple games with the Lowhhrick, Braylen, Liberator list I posted yesterday and went 1-1. Beat a Corran/Ahsoka/Biggs after getting Corran quadruple stressed, and then lost narrowly to a Fenn/Boba/Pirate list. The second game I lost Braylen in two rounds (thanks to a direct hit to finish him off) which really hampered my Gunner attacks due to not having Ops Specialist on the board. I probably win that game if I have it in play for 1 or 2 more rounds (Fenn certainly would have died sooner).

The shop I played at just so happened to have some Auzitucks in stock though, so I decided to bite the bullet and pick up a third one. I still think I'll use Lowhhrick as one of the three for now; I was quite happy at times to let them drift out of his range 1 bubble if there was a better move available - it was just nice to have it there sometimes to mitigate a couple extra points of damage. Braylen certainly died too fast in that second game, and had that been a reinforced Auzituck instead he would have at least survived one more round. I think having the Ops Specialist around longer is probably more important than the one stress Braylen was applying at any range rather than just range 2. Now I just need to round up a third copy of Trick Shot...

Also, I did have a thought regarding not countering Kylo via Breach Specialist in my current version - it's been a while since I even looked through it, but would the old damage deck possibly be a good choice? Blinded Pilot works differently there and makes you roll 0 dice instead of not attacking. Which would then trigger Ops Specialist and Gunner...

Need to check if there are any other nasty crits in there though. Here's where my thinking is at currently:

Lowhhrick (35) - Tactician, Gunner, Trick Shot

Liberator (33) - Tactician, Gunner, Trick Shot

Liberator (32) - Operations Specialist, C-3PO, Trick Shot

10 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Predator is interesting because it opens up your action bar. With something like Expertise, there's no reason not to Reinforce every turn, even if you aren't going to get shot, which wastes the action. With Predator, you'd be able to add to your offense in situations where you don't need to Reinforce. You lose 0.3 hits per attack when you Reinforce, and gain 0.4 hits per attack when you Focus.

3 Dice: 1.5 hits

3 Dice with Predator: 1.94 hits

3 Dice with Expertise: 2.25 hits

3 Dice with Predator and Focus: 2.68 hits

I'd like to pretend that I had math in mind when I was choosing Predator, but it really just came down to what I have and what fits. It's a lot easier to get multiple Predators than Expertise! The math does make sense, though.

The second one I posted, with Raging Wulfie...I meant to put Inspiring Recruit on there instead of Tactician and put Expertise on one of the Liberators (as below). The thought is Rage would be fairly situational, used early to make Wulfie the primary target and get burned down into triggering his ability, then back to Reinforce to shore up the bleeding. It could be used the other way around, too...normally Reinforce and Rage for kill shot opportunities. I'm unconvinced that action EPTs are a good idea of Wookies, though.

Wookiee Liberator (26)
Expertise (4)
Tactician (2)
Breach Specialist (1)

Wullffwarro (30)
Rage (1)
Inspiring Recruit (1)
C-3PO (3)

Wookiee Liberator (26)
Predator (3)
Tactician (2)
Breach Specialist (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

2 hours ago, Red42 said:

Also, I did have a thought regarding not countering Kylo via Breach Specialist in my current version - it's been a while since I even looked through it, but would the old damage deck possibly be a good choice? Blinded Pilot works differently there and makes you roll 0 dice instead of not attacking. Which would then trigger Ops Specialist and Gunner...

Need to check if there are any other nasty crits in there though. Here's where my thinking is at currently:

Lowhhrick (35) - Tactician, Gunner, Trick Shot

Liberator (33) - Tactician, Gunner, Trick Shot

Liberator (32) - Operations Specialist, C-3PO, Trick Shot

My problem with this is the other ships are reliant on the OS ship for attack mods. The beauty of @Wazat / @Wampa948's original list is each ship is self-contained and can work on it's own.

10 minutes ago, gennataos said:

My problem with this is the other ships are reliant on the OS ship for attack mods. The beauty of @Wazat / @Wampa948's original list is each ship is self-contained and can work on it's own.

This was the problem I ran into last night with Braylen and losing him so quickly in game 2. I haven't done the maths but I suspect Gunner + Ops spec is probably doing more damage than just Expertise (And passing out twice the stress most of the time), though; plus I have a habit of running into stress dealing lists whenever I put Expertise on anything. (Asajj is pretty popular to say the least around here).

I guess it's just personal preference/experience, and I think my latest iteration should defend the Ops Specialist better. And the trigger has fairly decent range coverage so they don't -have- to fly within range 1 of each other all the time.

1 minute ago, Red42 said:

This was the problem I ran into last night with Braylen and losing him so quickly in game 2. I haven't done the maths but I suspect Gunner + Ops spec is probably doing more damage than just Expertise, though; plus I have a habit of running into stress dealing lists whenever I put Expertise on anything. (Asajj is pretty popular to say the least around here).

I guess it's just personal preference/experience, and I think my latest iteration should defend the Ops Specialist better. And the trigger has fairly decent range coverage so they don't -have- to fly within range 1 of each other all the time.

I agree with all of your points. I actually missed that Lowhhrick was in the squad, I really like that for backing up the OS carrier.

With Lowhhrick, C-3PO and the ship's own Reinforce, the Ops Specialist can tank a 3 dice hit once per round, guaranteed. And if that puts off my opponent from shooting the most important ship to the synergy, I'm not going to complain either.

Man, I really can't let this thread go! Assume this rolls up under the following conditions, who does the opponent shoot?

• Lowhhrick is within range 1 of both the Liberator and Wulffie
• Low takes Reinforce
• Wulffie Rages
• Liberator takes Focus

Lowhhrick (28)
Predator (3)
Tactician (2)
Breach Specialist (1)

Wullffwarro (30)
Rage (1)
Inspiring Recruit (1)
Tactician (2)

Wookiee Liberator (26)
Predator (3)
Tactician (2)
Breach Specialist (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

@gennataos I really like this last one. You'll be more limited in your moves if you keep Wullffwarro in Range 1, but stress on opponents should make that less of an issue. Meanwhile, the particular version is going to be a harder hitter than Expertise variants

RE: Expertise vs Predator/Lone Wolf: I find it interesting the ships in which one works better than others. For some ships like Rey, or Scum with crew-Dengar, you'll have lots of rerolls, so you want Expertise. With Dash Rendar, Lone Wolf is great because you can store Focus tokens on Rey. An Auzituck--which can't target lock--has a lot of upside to gain from Predator. Personally, I can't quite figure out why Lone Wolf/Recon Specialist on Dengar seems almost unheard-of compared to the Expertise/K4/Unhinged combo. It's less resistant to bumping, but it's also three points cheaper, and stronger defensively.

17 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

@gennataos I really like this last one. You'll be more limited in your moves if you keep Wullffwarro in Range 1, but stress on opponents should make that less of an issue. Meanwhile, the particular version is going to be a harder hitter than Expertise variants

I think there are different ways you can fly it, trying to manage target priority as you see fit. You could dangle the Liberator outside of range 1 from Low, making him a juicier target. You could fly them all outside of range 1 and take a focus on Low...who gets shot then? As @Wazat said in his battle report on the wiki, flying these guys isn't autopilot. You have to manage range and consistent fire, which isn't necessarily easy to do.

I'm really curious how these lists would do against an alpha strike. If you miss the range control, something like a Vader Cruise + Quickdraw Cruise could very well knock a reinforced Wookie to only a few hull left.

18 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

RE: Expertise vs Predator/Lone Wolf: I find it interesting the ships in which one works better than others. For some ships like Rey, or Scum with crew-Dengar, you'll have lots of rerolls, so you want Expertise. With Dash Rendar, Lone Wolf is great because you can store Focus tokens on Rey. An Auzituck--which can't target lock--has a lot of upside to gain from Predator. Personally, I can't quite figure out why Lone Wolf/Recon Specialist on Dengar seems almost unheard-of compared to the Expertise/K4/Unhinged combo. It's less resistant to bumping, but it's also three points cheaper, and stronger defensively.

I have a friend who's run Recon Specialist on Dengar a fair amount, seems to work well. I guess the problem with LW on Dengar is it's harder to keep his arc on targets while also staying away from the rest of the list.

3 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I'm really curious how these lists would do against an alpha strike. If you miss the range control, something like a Vader Cruise + Quickdraw Cruise could very well knock a reinforced Wookie to only a few hull left.

The flip side is that if you get Range 2 on Vader and can put two stress on him, he's probably toast. It seems like an interesting match-up, since either player can probably make a mistake in positioning and have it be incredibly costly.

On paper, I'd be more worried about something like Dengar/Tel, which won't have quite as much spike damage, but a lot more hull to chew through, and won't have to worry about arc. Meanwhile, K4 is out there giving free target locks despite stress.

5 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

The flip side is that if you get Range 2 on Vader and can put two stress on him, he's probably toast. It seems like an interesting match-up, since either player can probably make a mistake in positioning and have it be incredibly costly.

On paper, I'd be more worried about something like Dengar/Tel, which won't have quite as much spike damage, but a lot more hull to chew through, and won't have to worry about arc. Meanwhile, K4 is out there giving free target locks despite stress.

Good points on an Imperial matchup.

I'm not terribly worried about Dengar and (whomever). Those large bases are easier to range control and block, which means you can swap in and out who's receiving the brunt of enemy fire. If I'm stressing and/or blocking well, then they're not getting defensive mods, which they'll need against three 3-die attacks. That is where the all-Liberator list is appealing, giving you the freedom to move them in any order.

I'm so close to buying a third Auzituck. I feel like there are so many viable permutations, it'd be worth it to just run those for a while.

Why would you want to play three Auzitucks when you can play four?

No, but seriously. 4 Kashyyyk Defenders with commandos is easily better than 4SR.

19 hours ago, Red42 said:

Also, I did have a thought regarding not countering Kylo via Breach Specialist in my current version - it's been a while since I even looked through it, but would the old damage deck possibly be a good choice? Blinded Pilot works differently there and makes you roll 0 dice instead of not attacking. Which would then trigger Ops Specialist and Gunner...

Need to check if there are any other nasty crits in there though. Here's where my thinking is at currently:

Lowhhrick (35) - Tactician, Gunner, Trick Shot

Liberator (33) - Tactician, Gunner, Trick Shot

Liberator (32) - Operations Specialist, C-3PO, Trick Shot

I just now created this page on the wiki to make answering that question easier. You can compare the crits side-by-side. I hope it helps!

And yes, Gunner + Ops definitely favors the old blinded pilot. I haven't examined the other cards yet though (it's late and making that page took some time).

@gennataos: I like that rage wulf among two liberators, or a liberator and lowhhrick. I'm tempted to say trade C-3PO for Kanan though, since then you can clear stress while keeping wulf's murder arc trained on victims. And the whole fleet is way more stress-resilient than the expertise version, which nicely responds to one of my fleet's main counters (and in fact, a match between my fleet vs your fleet would favor yours, I suspect, because your stress would hurt me so much). Which fleet is better overall in a tourney is trickier to say. I'd have to give it a test run.

I do think having all tucks at the same PS is a huge advantage though. The reordering freedom I had during activation and combat made such a difference. I could avoid bumps/unfavorable moves better, start combat with the ship that only had one target available (and its survival or destruction informs the remaining ships' choices), and so on. IMO if you have different PS, put the low PS ships in front and staggered a little if possible. This gives them the ability to cross each other with opposite-direction turns, without a bump. That means Wulf will generally be in the back.

As for your question of who gets shot first, I don't think they'd target Wulf (but that's a philosophical guess and wookie combat continually surprises me). Shooting Wulf makes him stronger, and then you'd have to make sure to finish him fast or you've got real problems. I think Lowhhrick is the primary target, as he's identical to the liberator save for his ally-protecting ability which really needs to go. Once Lowhhrick is down, if he goes down, then they can try to focus-fire one of the other ships with a lot less trouble.

@Elavion: 3 tucks with upgrades works better than 4 tucks with, say, wookie commandos. It turns out the upgrades and/or pilot abilities make a ton of difference. Built right, 3 tucks becomes terrifying. 4 tucks is a lot of hull to chew through, but not a ton of bite offensively in comparison. Tactician also adds a lot of control. (edit: now that I reread your post, I see you were just teasing gennatos and tempting him to buy more. I should sleep)

5 hours ago, Wazat said:

I just now created this page on the wiki to make answering that question easier. You can compare the crits side-by-side. I hope it helps!

And yes, Gunner + Ops definitely favors the old blinded pilot. I haven't examined the other cards yet though (it's late and making that page took some time).

Thanks for doing that, it's really useful to be able to compare in a coherent way. I'm definitely leaning towards digging out the old damage deck for this list now.

6 hours ago, Wazat said:

@gennataos: I like that rage wulf among two liberators, or a liberator and lowhhrick. I'm tempted to say trade C-3PO for Kanan though, since then you can clear stress while keeping wulf's murder arc trained on victims. And the whole fleet is way more stress-resilient than the expertise version, which nicely responds to one of my fleet's main counters (and in fact, a match between my fleet vs your fleet would favor yours, I suspect, because your stress would hurt me so much). Which fleet is better overall in a tourney is trickier to say. I'd have to give it a test run.

I do think having all tucks at the same PS is a huge advantage though. The reordering freedom I had during activation and combat made such a difference. I could avoid bumps/unfavorable moves better, start combat with the ship that only had one target available (and its survival or destruction informs the remaining ships' choices), and so on. IMO if you have different PS, put the low PS ships in front and staggered a little if possible. This gives them the ability to cross each other with opposite-direction turns, without a bump. That means Wulf will generally be in the back.

As for your question of who gets shot first, I don't think they'd target Wulf (but that's a philosophical guess and wookie combat continually surprises me). Shooting Wulf makes him stronger, and then you'd have to make sure to finish him fast or you've got real problems. I think Lowhhrick is the primary target, as he's identical to the liberator save for his ally-protecting ability which really needs to go. Once Lowhhrick is down, if he goes down, then they can try to focus-fire one of the other ships with a lot less trouble.

Thanks for the reply, @Wazat!

You make a good point about Kanan over C-3P0 in the version that had him. I'm actually favoring the last version, which doesn't have C-3P0, but this does make me think more about when I'd use Rage...I'd have to consider where his arc could be on the following turns when I'll want a green maneuver. I do get the value of everyone being the same PS, but I'm not terribly worried about it. I plan to fly the last one a couple times today.

I flew.

Wulf, rage, inspiring recruit, kanan, hull

Low, DTF, C3P0, rey

Biggs, M9G8, integrated astromech.

Wulf was very interesting to play with, my opponent flying Miranda Esuge didnt wan't to drop a cluster bomb on wulf, and at the end of the game Wulf finished Miranda off with a 5 dice primary

I will be one third of 186th team silly at the UKTC (3 player team tournament, one of each faction) in a few weeks and will be bringing.

Braylen Stramm (25)
Gunner (5)
R3-A2 (2)
Alliance Overhaul (0)

Lowhhrick (28)
Lightning Reflexes (1)
Tactician (2)
Gunner (5)

Wookiee Liberator (26)
Lightning Reflexes (1)
Tactician (2)
Operations Specialist (3)

Total: 100

Main issue I had with 2 gunships and Biggs, was Biggs. I hate flying him, was totally gonna rock triple gunships but Braylen adds extra target priority issues

On 29.09.2017 at 8:11 AM, Wazat said:

@Elavion: 3 tucks with upgrades works better than 4 tucks with, say, wookie commandos. It turns out the upgrades and/or pilot abilities make a ton of difference. Built right, 3 tucks becomes terrifying. 4 tucks is a lot of hull to chew through, but not a ton of bite offensively in comparison. Tactician also adds a lot of control. (edit: now that I reread your post, I see you were just teasing gennatos and tempting him to buy more. I should sleep)

I kinda was, but since you're being wrong on the internet I have to continue the topic

They don't need a lot of bite when your opponent can't kill them. With Commandos you are able to push some damage through every turn, and that's enough. I found that I generally deal about as much damage as my opponent, and since I've got a lot more hp that's favourable.

The main problem with running three is alpha strikes. By the time you get to shoot you're likely down to two ships, and all your opponent needs to do is kill one more to win.

It's also much harder to pin down Dash, especially if he's running Burnout SLAM.

Now, don't get me wrong- I'm not saying that 3 tuck lists are bad, I just disagree that they're better than 4.

Fair enough.

Though the joke about tempting people into buying more got me thinking, 8 tucks in Epic. You'd lose a ship to focus-firing, but you'd have so much combined hull to chew through (with your reinforce tokens too), and deal so much damage since every ship could have the same target in its arcs... Might be kind of miserable for your opponent, but if enough players combined their tucks you could actually pull this off.

(8 is the max number of a single ship type in Epic right? Or is it 12 small ships and 8 large?)

I flew the version below today in a couple small kit tournaments. Both were three rounds of swiss, no cut. I won the first one (3-0), didn't even place the second one (2-1) due to MOV. I can go through details if anyone is interested, just let me know. Going into the final game of the second one, I'd only lost 2 wookies all day. I ended up getting tabled in the last game. I let hubris take hold and didn't put enough thought into ranging the initial engagement. If I do that matchup (TIE/d Tractor vessery, x/7 Ryad, Backdraft) 9 more times, I'm fairly confident I win it most of the time. I was outflown, though, and deserved the loss...maybe not as bad as dice variance decided I'd lose, but still deserved the loss. In truth, I was probably outflown twice, but the strength of the list carried me through on the other game.

The wookies are strong. @Wazat's experience with them is not an anomaly.

Lowhhrick (28)
Predator (3)
Tactician (2)
Breach Specialist (1)

Wullffwarro (30)
Rage (1)
Inspiring Recruit (1)
Tactician (2)

Wookiee Liberator (26)
Predator (3)
Tactician (2)
Breach Specialist (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

To follow up on my sleep-deprived post above, I lost that last game on setup. I failed to recognize what my opponent was doing with a TIE/d-Ruthlessness Vessery and basically played right into his hands. I allowed the asteroids to be fairly spread out, instead of clustering as many as possible and avoiding that area, so tractor beams caused issues. I still flew in a loose, but close formation, so Ruthlessness did 3-4 damage. I slow-rolled to try to keep the defender K-turns out of play as long as possible, but I should have flown in fast to nuke Vessery and stress the living daylights out of him. I also approached too head-on, which allowed the K-turns to be too effective.

This might have been one of the most educational loses I've ever had.

A loss that teaches you is awesome! It doesn't feel that way at the time, but sometimes the loss teaches you far more than a win ever could. A few months ago I flew a fleet so poorly I took dead last at a tournament, when I'm usually mid-grade or near the top. I don't remember what ships I was flying, only that I had made a series of bad choices that lost the games for me hard (often 0-100), and that have informed my flying ever since. As long as you walk away from the landing and know what went wrong, you're ready for another go!

Ruthlessness + TIE/D is brutal, especially with tractor beams. I'm pleased to see Ruthlessness seeing more play (until a month or so ago I'd never seen it fielded in a serious match), but it's a depressingly violent way to be taken down. I kinda blame Biggs fleets like Fair Ship Rebels for unleashing this terror upon us. I can't remember what I was flying, but I had a Biggs fleet a couple weeks before my Triple Tucks Tournament get eaten alive by a ruthlessness fleet. I tried to keep my ships apart, but anyone who's fielded Lone Wolf will tell you just how hard that can be in a furball, and tractor beam covered the rest of the space (while putting me on obstacles). It was a brutal, ruthless takedown, and left me kinda shaken.

I was really pleased when I got my revenge the following week, when I was practicing my triple tucks for the tournament. We were both amazed at how well the tucks just shrugged off his threats, and devoured his fleet systematically. I'd learned a lot though about spacing and approach and obstacles, and I was familiar enough with my tucks by that point that I had a pretty good sense for how to fly them. He still got some ruthless damage off and landed me on some obstacles, but the wookies are tough enough that they just hollered and ripped the enemy's arms off.

That opponent was really nice and he let me practice against a couple more of his fleets, fielding ion and tractor beam and stress threats so I could practice taking them down. I did really well against each, and I probably did a lot better at the tournament because of that extra practice. Probably a good deal of luck too, but practice makes perfect!

Last week that same opponent fielded a Braylen Stressbot + Tactician Tuck + something else stressy fleet on casual night, and it was the most savage takedown I've had in a long time. I was playing 2 starvipers and Talonbane (using the Guns for Hire I'd won at the tournament), and ended up with 5+ stress on each ship at one point. It felt kinda awful to be so helpless as they just wrecked me, but it was another learning experience (and I learned some empathy for what I'd been putting others through with my tactician tucks, just amped up to 11). I'm still learning to fly the vipers and k-fighters, and even how to build them properly. IMO they're still too delicate with not enough teeth, but I also fly like a ***** still so I'll need a lot more practice before I can give a final word on their value. Again, didn't feel like it at the time, but I'm glad for the loss. Everyone needs to be humbled by a harsh loss from time to time, it's the only way they can improve.

(though in my heart of hearts, I'd like to have won that match)

14 hours ago, gennataos said:

I won the first one (3-0), didn't even place the second one (2-1) due to MOV.

Oops, I guess I did get 4th in the second tourney. Yay!...?

3rd was my first round opponent whom I tabled. You'd think head-to-head records would take precedence on ties. I've been on both sides of those ties and it seems weird to place higher than someone to whom you lost.

14 hours ago, gennataos said:

3rd was my first round opponent whom I tabled. You'd think head-to-head records would take precedence on ties. I've been on both sides of those ties and it seems weird to place higher than someone to whom you lost.

I know the feeling. I missed the top 4 cut of one of the store champs I went to this year by 10 MOV, to the person I beat pretty significantly in round 1 of the event. Such is the way of the swiss system haha!

Hopefully going to get a game or two in this week with triple wookiees, haven't had a chance to play them yet since I picked up the third one.