2 hours ago, rmunn said:

I've been hesitating between Unicorn and Crab for a couple of months now — I'm definitely a fan of the Screw the Rules, I'm Doing What's Right! trope, and both the Crab ("We defend the Wall, no matter what the rest of Rokugan thinks of us") and the Unicorn ("Our ways are different, but not wrong") appeal to me. But that story was the quintessence of "Screw the rules, I'm doing what's right!"

I think I just found my clan.

The Unicorn are also associated with the Bushido virtue of Compassion: the belief that the samurai are obligated to protect the lower castes, not to exploit them, something certain other clans aren't so great about.

1 hour ago, shosuko said:

Did anyone here think "Oh, marriage to an Ikoma, of course she should have expected to lose her name"? I'm seriously wondering because this is the first I've heard of it... If we didn't know it, I don't think we could possibly fault Altensarnai for not knowing it at first either... and why would the Lion mention it? Its their hidden clause in the contract, they certainly wouldn't point it out.

My point is more that if it's uncommon in this situation for Altarnasai to take the Ikoma name then it would most definitely have been brought up and settled, and at least agreed upon by both parties early on. (And I still think that some Ide advisor would have learned Ikoma customs and brought them up to the champion; the Unicorn have been in Rokugan for 200 years!) It seems like sneaking in a clause like that alone would be enough grounds to reasonably break of the marriage arrangement with no lose of face for the Unicorn. Or for the Unicorn to press the Ikoma to change his name based on Altarnasai's station. To me as a reader I don't see how the situation reasonably got to the current situation, and why it isn't or wasn't open to further negotiation between the Lion and Unicorn.

Now this all would make more sense if Altarnasai agreed specifically to the name change terms before agreeing to the marriage (because she was willing to swallow those terms to get peace.) But re-reading the fiction, that is not the case.

I guess tl:dr, I agree with Kamoko:

Quote

It is no loss of face to claim the deal has changed.

2 hours ago, shosuko said:

Is this actually a thing? I've not been the closest follower of L5R, but I've been around the game for a bit. I've never heard of the Ikoma being a patriarchal family, or that the male's name is always taken in marriage. If you look at the L5R wiki it states in Marriage and the Matsu that the males will always take the females name - and through the rest of Rokugan it is always dependent on glory / rank, not gender. Even the Utaku who are matriarchal don't force their name on the men who marry them...

Did anyone here think "Oh, marriage to an Ikoma, of course she should have expected to lose her name"? I'm seriously wondering because this is the first I've heard of it... If we didn't know it, I don't think we could possibly fault Altensarnai for not knowing it at first either... and why would the Lion mention it? Its their hidden clause in the contract, they certainly wouldn't point it out.

-----

Of course it will be Scorp with the fiction + cards week. No reason to spoil anything ahead of schedule until the last moment. Dumping too much early can weaken enthusiasm when the normal release schedule resumes... They want it to be boiling at Gencon, not simmering.

While this may not be a thing in the empire it could simply been the way the peace treaty through marriage tradition. There is more than one way to marry. One involves an unorganized tournament by tetsubo, last man standing gets the Crab girl. The other involves receiving land in exchange for giving up your name and marying a Daimyo.

I personally hope it stays that marrying the higher rank brings people up. But traditions have a tendency to much things up.

EDIT

I must have skimmed when I read your post because re-reading this you make your point really well.

As a final note. When O-ushi married a Unicorn clan member. As a sign of good faith and because he was the youngest of seven sons of the clan champion the Unicorn took the Hida name.

Sometimes taking the name was just a show of good faith between families.

2 hours ago, shosuko said:

Duplicate

Ultimately, my take away from these past 8+ pages is...katanas are straight swords with curves, Lions are supervillains for out-politicking the Roku-noobs, and my new FAVORITE nickname for the Unicorn Champion shall be Shinjo Altarleaver.

This fiction was mixed for me. Overall it was fine, but there were quite a few awkwardly written moments.

I kind of like to think that the Ikoma aren't actually exclusively patrilineal and the Lion just told the Unicorn they were so they could steal their Champion away. Even with the Matsu there were at least two women who married out of Clan and took their husband's name.

I don't think the Unicorn failing to integrate after 200 years is unrealistic. Throughout history there have been numerous instances of cultures remaining distinctive despite being part of a nation-state dominated by a different one.

Oh, and have a Pumpkin gaijin.

9 hours ago, Willisbatman said:

I really hope this time around there are no male Utaku and no female Ide lol if you are born into one you just end up joining the other

Why? I don't see what purpose that would serve.

23 minutes ago, Zesu Shadaban said:

Ultimately, my take away from these past 8+ pages is...katanas are straight swords with curves, Lions are supervillains for out-politicking the Roku-noobs, and my new FAVORITE nickname for the Unicorn Champion shall be Shinjo Altarleaver.

HA!?

Triple points for that one.

....and I'm definitely stealing it?

1 minute ago, Vlad3theImpaler said:

Why? I don't see what purpose that would serve.

Considering the Utaku mounted infantry was one of the only Unicorn tropes that interested me, I wholeheartedly agree with you.?

Is there relevant discussion in this thread, between the shitload of posts about curved/straight blade?

personally, I really didn't like this fiction

23 minutes ago, Ser Nakata said:

Is there relevant discussion in this thread, between the shitload of posts about curved/straight blade?

Yes, for certain definitions of relevant.

Excellent Fiction

Perfectly captures the soul of the Unicorn Clan

No Moto or Ide reference but there is plenty of time.

My understanding of the name change was that it was the more 'senior' Samurai between the two that maintained their status and kept their name....
Only reason I even knew this was from when Isawa Nakamuro (then Master of Air) married Tamori Shaitung (Tamori Daimyo) and became Tamori Nakamuro. Which was a pretty big thing for a Phoenix Master to do. It was a love match so I`m unsure how much that had an effect in the decision. Similarly when Isawa Akiko became Doji Akiko marrying Doji Kurohito (Crane Clan Champ). And considering Altansarnai`s position I can not understand how the Lion would consider that as a reasonable request or demand? Feels like the Lion are being played as underhanded which I did not like...

Added: I did like the fiction, and felt it gave a good feel of the Unicorn... just found the premise not correctly thought out.

13 hours ago, Mirumoto Saito said:

I mean, they could call katana two-handed and scimitar one-handed or something

I've lived long enough to see Mirumoto call a katana a two-handed sword.

2 hours ago, shineyorkboy said:

I don't think the Unicorn failing to integrate after 200 years is unrealistic. Throughout history there have been numerous instances of cultures remaining distinctive despite being part of a nation-state dominated by a different one.

There's "failing to integrate" and there's "failing to do some extremely basic research on a deal involving your Clan Champion."

It's especially egregious because unlike many unassimilated enclaves, the Unicorn have vast experience with adapting to new contexts and new cultural milieus, making allowances for the weirdness of others while not losing their core sense of self.

Their basic failure to adapt after settling into one place for two centuries is pretty well incomprehensible, given their actual talents.

I guess that silly Ikoma daimyo should've realised, you can't handcuff the wind , and if you try you're gonna fail.

14 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

There's "failing to integrate" and there's "failing to do some extremely basic research on a deal involving your Clan Champion."

It's especially egregious because unlike many unassimilated enclaves, the Unicorn have vast experience with adapting to new contexts and new cultural milieus, making allowances for the weirdness of others while not losing their core sense of self.

Their basic failure to adapt after settling into one place for two centuries is pretty well incomprehensible, given their actual talents.

Eh, I thnk it comes down to the rest of Rokugan simply writing the Unicorn off as "gaijin barbarians". From that point on, no matter what the Unicorn do to integrate, they'll always be the gaijin, knowing human nature and Rokugani xenophobia.

At which point they say screw that, and stick to their own traditions.

I do wonder about basic research... I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the "always marry into an Ikoma if female" thing is creative interpretation. The Lion are adherents of Bushido, but that doesn't mean that at least some of them aren't above tricks.

I just don't buy people who navigated so many hostile or potentially hostile encounters with other cultures as being too naive to read the fine print in a treaty that important to them. Especially if they've had two hundred years to observe their dance partners in action.

2 minutes ago, Horvagab said:

I do wonder about basic research... I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the "always marry into an Ikoma if female" thing is creative interpretation. The Lion are adherents of Bushido, but that doesn't mean that at least some of them aren't above tricks.

You can do it honorably. You just have to convince yourself that you sincerely believe that your interpretation is valid. And if you have to jump through a couple logical hoops to get there it's for the greater good of the Empire so duty compels you.

2 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

I just don't buy people who navigated so many hostile or potentially hostile encounters with other cultures as being too naive to read the fine print in a treaty that important to them. Especially if they've had two hundred years to observe their dance partners in action.

But in those other instances they had the trump card of 'we don't live here so if we get into trouble we can just leave.'

Just now, shineyorkboy said:

But in those other instances they had the trump card of 'we don't live here so if we get into trouble we can just leave.'

You don't go as far, see as much, and escape contact with as many different cultures as they did without learning how to pay attention to the people you're dealing with. And that is what they signally failed to do in this example.

Please tell me the Moto will come in.

Has anyone read Akodo's leadership or what Ikoma actually did for the clan? They're certainly the "underhand" of the Lion. Doing stuff the Akodo are too honorable and the Matsu are to proud to do. The Ikoma are historians, and they could easily have left that part out until later, specifically to bait the Unicorn into giving them grounds to attack, and then brought out some old tradition that's commonly ignored now but still technically true. It's all about getting the Emperor to say "okay, I guess they earned your wrath".

And why would the Ide know so much about a clan that's been hostile to them for literally the entire 200 years? This deal has probably been in the works for months if not years, and the Unicorn champ who's nameI'm not going to try and spell probably decided to let them get away with their trick for the sake of her people. This wasn't the first argument, not by a long shot. Just the latest development in an ongoing problem. She gave in time after time after time. But this one broke her back.

18 hours ago, Fumo said:

our 'magic' well that's tough' and the iuchi being introduced through a firework display. Shugenja are priests, not wizards, and meishodo is as much a religion as the reverence of the kami is. Definitely want more of a focus on the spiritual aspect than that fireball throwing.

Well, the Iuchi learned named magic from actual literal wizards (possibly heartless ones). To them, using magic is wizardry. It's part of the reason why all the non-Unicorn in the room appear uncomfortable with the display. Probably also why the Phoenix are still suspicious of it: the Unicorn don't revere the kami.

So, that Ikoma daimyo? In the old continuity, he was ordered to take his family and live in Unicorn lands by the Emperor, so that a peace between the two clans could be settled. And almost messed itup. His daughter was Tsanuri.

Finally, about the Lion and sneakiness. Ikoma was possibly the sneakiest person at the Dawn of the Empire, only rivalled by Yasuki. There are some members of the family who remember that.

3 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

There's "failing to integrate" and there's "failing to do some extremely basic research on a deal involving your Clan Champion".

Point of order, that latter bit didn't happen.

They clearly did do the basic research, everyone in the fiction knew about it. The fact a Marriage would occur to bring peace was already agreed upon before either party was decided. By the time of the fiction, everyone knew Altansarnai was leaving the Unicorn.

Your point of order on the Unicorn's failure to adapt ignores that adapting as a nomadic culture is an entirely different thing than adapting into a permanent Empire. As a nomadic culture, the Unicorn adapt and survive.

Back in the Empire, the only way to adapt back is to literally abandon all they were. So expecting them to change so drastically, even in 200 years is unrealistic.