2 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

Ironically, for all the talk about curved swords, Al seems more interested in using her bow in the artwork. Typical Unicorn saying one thing then doing another.

Let's not go down that path again.

Mirumoto Saito you gotta think like an Ise Zumi.

"What is a curved blade?"

"What is not a curved blade?"

47 minutes ago, phillos said:

The insult was fair warning. I mean we could just hit them with the tetsubo without telling them we think they are crap first.

Way of the Crab has a sidebar of Rokugani insults.

I may have to re-memorize them??

I feel this story was the most direct of all of the fictions yet. There was only 1 real setting, and only a few characters who interact. No real twists or surprises. I'm not familiar with Altansarnai, but I am familiar with Kamoko and she fulfilled all of my expectations. I appreciated how Altansarnai felt pity on the Asako but wouldn't let it effect her decision because she was trying to follow the rules, but when Kamoko stepped in with the same request she was able to change her mind. It shows a strong will, and adherence to duty. Definitely a battle within the Unicorn to keep their ways while also living in Rokugan with its own customs.

24 minutes ago, Mirumoto Saito said:

To be honest, the words "curved", "blade", "katana", "scimitar" and "sword" hold no meaning to me anymore!

I think the katana is more "curve-curious" then straight.

6 minutes ago, phillos said:

Mirumoto Saito you gotta think like an Ise Zumi.

"What is a curved blade?"

"What is not a curved blade?"

*SLAP!!.*

no... just no

???

23 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/curved-swords

not as well-known as "I took an arrow to the knee", but I thought reasonably well-known.

Now that's interesting. We already have at least one card, Shameful Display, that is 95% likely to have been a meme reference. This would have been a good opportunity, but perhaps it will show up in flavor text down the road.

4 hours ago, TroutNinja said:

The story makes sense? Doesn't make any sense to me from a Lion PoV. Deception in combat is one thing, but forcing the Ikoma family daimyo to break the marriage vows made before his family and his ancestors for a political convenience is rather dishonorable don't you think?

I guess it all depends on what vows a Rokugani marriage entails. If they do include promises to be true and loyal for life, then I agree that these events don't speak very highly of the value of a Lion's word.

4 hours ago, twinstarbmc said:

All exposition and conversation. No combat whatsoever. And still, I will agree, this was one of -- if not THE -- best story thus far. Really hammered home the Clan's frustration with reintegrating back into Rokugan, and heck, Rokugan's frustration about having to accept the Unicorn back in!

It did have fighting! Didn't you see those two samurai putting on a show at the beginning?

3 hours ago, BordOne said:

Is it just me or Lion are the bad guys of Rokugan?

Conflicts with Crane, Dragon, indirectly with Phoenix and now Unicorn too? And it looks like all of them are somehow Lion's fault

I didn't sign up for that :<

If it helps, you can always blame it all on Hotaru. That's what I do whenever I encounter something in the fictions that I don't like. (How dare she upstage Nerishma when it was finally his turn to shine!)

3 hours ago, Mirumoto Saito said:

<a lot of pictures and stuff about katana and scimitars>

The shape of the katana has varied considerably throughout history . Some of them curve wildly, while others are very straight indeed! Depending on what style the katana in Rokugan are based on (and whether the Unicorn are referring to the current blades or remembering the blades at the time they left as "straight blades"), the Unicorn's description may not be too far off. Though personally, I find some of the other arguments most likely, that "straight" just means "straighter than a scimitar" and "curved" just means "more curved than a katana".

Interesting aside: it appears that it wasn't until the Nambokucho Period that the waviness (whatever it's called) started to be incorporated into the blade. At least, going off the linked graphic.

5 minutes ago, Ide Yoshiya said:

Now that's interesting. We already have at least one card, Shameful Display, that is 95% likely to have been a meme reference. This would have been a good opportunity, but perhaps it will show up in flavor text down the road.

What meme is it referring to?

It's been something near 200 years. Not sure the current date or the date the Ki-Rin left (1000 years of peace-800 years wandering). That first generation to return probably spent more of it's time fighting than integrating. The next few generations were likely busy exploring it's lands and taming them while being excluded from Rokugani society. It's not a stretch to think most of that first century was them building the "Unicorn" culture.

They would have had to get the Ide way, way up to speed for them to survive a trip to a major Capital and get the real highlife of Rokugani courts. With a culture as slow moving and intolerant of change as Rokugan, I don't think it's that unreasonable for them to be outsiders. The majority of Unicorn Samurai probably keep to themselves, and the majority of great clans samurai avoid them. At 200 years they're stable enough that they have to be accomidated.

And seriously, they kicked the Lion's butt and were given Lion lands. The Lion have held onto grudges much, much longer. And I'm sure they pick the scab every possible chance so they can get a chance to prove that it was a fluke they got trampled by filthy Gaijin 200 years ago.

The Ikoma probably pulled out an old tradition specifically to remove Altansarnai from the leadership, or put her in a position where she gives them a chance to declare war.

I really hope this time around there are no male Utaku and no female Ide lol if you are born into one you just end up joining the other

Oh wow Ree is back, and with a strong offering. I'm not prepared to say it's the best, but it's certainly a good opening for the Unicorn ; they might actually make it into my favorites now.

(One thing to keep in mind about Ree's time as story lead - my understanding of that era is that she was handed a pretty tangled mess of plot notions for Jade already in place when she took over. How much of that plot, particularly the initial element, was hers is an open question).

Also, glad to see the sharp reminder that *honorable* and *not a jerk* are two very, very different thing. A lot of the time, acting honorably means being a jerk.

I'm surprised I saw no mention (may be there was one and I missed it, sorry) but doesn't the marriage plot twist look a lot like the thing with the Unicorn and Dragon Champions involved in the old cannon?

12 minutes ago, llamaman88 said:

It's been something near 200 years. Not sure the current date or the date the Ki-Rin left (1000 years of peace-800 years wandering). That first generation to return probably spent more of it's time fighting than integrating. The next few generations were likely busy exploring it's lands and taming them while being excluded from Rokugani society. It's not a stretch to think most of that first century was them building the "Unicorn" culture.

They would have had to get the Ide way, way up to speed for them to survive a trip to a major Capital and get the real highlife of Rokugani courts. With a culture as slow moving and intolerant of change as Rokugan, I don't think it's that unreasonable for them to be outsiders. The majority of Unicorn Samurai probably keep to themselves, and the majority of great clans samurai avoid them. At 200 years they're stable enough that they have to be accomidated.

And seriously, they kicked the Lion's butt and were given Lion lands. The Lion have held onto grudges much, much longer. And I'm sure they pick the scab every possible chance so they can get a chance to prove that it was a fluke they got trampled by filthy Gaijin 200 years ago.

The Ikoma probably pulled out an old tradition specifically to remove Altansarnai from the leadership, or put her in a position where she gives them a chance to declare war.

They didn't really take the Lions lands as get their old territory back from them. Not that the Lion would bother to see the distinction

1 minute ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

They didn't really take the Lions lands as get their old territory back from them. Not that the Lion would bother to see the distinction

Exactly. As I remember, the Lion didn't let that go for a long time the last time around.

Just now, llamaman88 said:

Exactly. As I remember, the Lion didn't let that go for a long time the last time around.

No they didn't.

I doubt they will this time either ???

1 hour ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Aha! So you admit the sword is straight!

Damnyou!

4 hours ago, Eisenmerc said:

Just seems that if the champion thought she wouldn't have to take her husbands name, it would indicate she just kinda assumed the man always took the woman's name. Also a clan/family can be matriarchal and still have male daimyo. The Matsu family comes to mind, many male champions from them in the old lore.

As I understand it in Rokugan whoever is lower glory, male or female, is typically "married to" the person of higher glory and takes their name. There are few exceptions such as the Matsu, Utaku, and apparently Ikoma (although I had never heard of this before, and its ironic because it's patriarchal lol) where it is always done by gender. I think this is not something to fault Unicorn for, as if I had asked in the forum openly the simple question "which families use a gendered bias for marriage and inheritance" I think only Matsu and Utaku would have come up...

To people who think this is below the Lion - I don't think it is. This is standard, honorable politics. This is exactly what I would expect from the Lion, Crane, and Phoenix. I kinda suspect that is what the Crane courtier was getting at when they mentioned it earlier in the story. I think she was trying to pry about whether Altansarnai was planning on going with the Ikoma tradition or would be willing to buck it.

“And will you carry these traditions with you when you marry into the Lion Clan, Shinjosama?” the Crane queried.

...

“True, Lady Shinjo Altansarnai.” The courtier’s voice stammered slightly over the foreign syllables of her name. “And I wish you well as you bow to that future.”

4 hours ago, Fumo said:

Good: we got a lot of name dropping, a good sense of the characters personalities, artwork that I'm assuming is a clever throwback to Iuchi Daiyu (so he's maybe unique number 3), and War, which tends to be entertaining.

Not so good: the convos between Lady Shinjo and genetic crane, then between her and kamoko, felt like a beating around the head with the exposition Hammer.

The nuanced point about respecting Shinjo tradition as well as Ikoma in light of the rank of champion very quickly jumped to an extremely blunt letter that amounted to 'screw the lion, its death or dishonour!'.

Altansarnai came off as a little reckless, or in thrall to her more emotional daimyo, despite being one of the more experienced champions (which is actually fine for the narrative, and plays right into the idea that the clan is slightly reckless and/or gullible).

The notion that Something as key as who marries into which family didn't come up in negotiations is ridiculous, and there is plenty of room for reasonable discussion between the two parties (ide 1: oh hi mr ikoma, apparently you didn't realise that in our clan the lower ranking samurai marries into the clan of the senior one. Ikoma 1: oh ok mr ide, that's not how we do it but let's talk).

And a more general gripe, I didn't like the focus on 'if the other clans don't like our 'magic' well that's tough' and the iuchi being introduced through a firework display. Shugenja are priests, not wizards, and meishodo is as much a religion as the reverence of the kami is. Definitely want more of a focus on the spiritual aspect than that fireball throwing.

but all in, not bad, and I'm still looking forward to pony stomping people.

As someone who works in sales, meaning my job is largely about skirting most details until contracts are signed, saying only what is legally required... I can very well see how they would attempt this.

Oh Unicorn-Champion - It would help us put this matter of the lands you claim as your historic lands to rest if you perhaps accepted a proposal of marriage. Binding a family between us we can justly trust you with these lands we have long guarded. We propose this lower rank Samurai become your husband, he is an honorable Ikoma who understands the value of political marriage. You need not re-locate to our lands as this is more a formality. You have already born just heirs to your Unicorn inheritance which need not be adopted to our clan, and you may continue your relationships with your advisers as you wish without our interference. Accept this token as a sign of your acceptance and we will deliver the message immediately through the courts of the Emperor that all may know of our new peace.

I think that is a perfectly fine proposal, and would anyone really ask "but does she keep her maiden name?"

4 hours ago, Mirumoto Saito said:

No. A sword is a sword. A katana is a sword, like a Nodachi, a subset of "sword" in the universe of all swords that exists (in Rokugan or not). A scimitar is also a sword. Both are curved swords , compared to straight swords like jian, arming sword, long sword and rapiers. A thing is a thing, not another, different thing . This is something that I would never ever imagined myself discussing in a L5R forum in my entire life. Seriously.

No. The words "straight" and "curved" are absolutes, defined by observation of nature, not by their exclusive relation to swords specifically. Two straight things in parallel might extend into infinity and never cross each other. The same can not be said about curved objects.

"Big" and "small" or "long" and "short" or "broad" and "thin" are relatives and can be used interchangeably depending of the era or subject. See broadswords, small swords or long swords. That is even before we start considering the fact that there are physical properties of curved swords and the dynamic of use of a curved sword that make it significantly different from a straight sword.

A katana being less curved than a scimitar don't magically make it straight. It might make it straigh er than a scimitar. It is still a curved sword.

I think this is a great example where language can be too basic. Sometimes you need better embellishments to more accurately describe the point. Straight and Curved are too simple when katana are rarely "straight" and sometimes have quite pronounced curves... They should have found a better set of terms to compare themselves too. Fail analogy is fail :\

They could have described them as crescent edged or broad edged blades compared to the more even blade or narrow blade of the katana. That still shows the difference but it also makes sense because katana, while curved wouldn't often be described as a "crescent edge" and would never be described as a "broad edged blade" while a scimitar would easily be both. I'll overlook it as a Altansarnai simply being bad at language haha. Unicorn have trouble counting and speaking, so we should give them some leeway - like we do with children.

6 minutes ago, shosuko said:

Unicorn have trouble counting and speaking, so we should give them some leeway - like we do with children.

Note how, I, the Wittgenstein scholar and Mathematician, just decided to stay out of this conversation until now.

Ahem, "The meaning of words is best understood as their use within a given language game."

That's right, I said it. Wut you got old man?

20 minutes ago, Iuchi Toshimo said:

Note how, I, the Wittgenstein scholar and Mathematician, just decided to stay out of this conversation until now.

Ahem, "The meaning of words is best understood as their use within a given language game."

That's right, I said it. Wut you got old man?

Where are the Ide? That's what I got... I was hoping to see some Ide, and I was disappoint :\

cool cool...2. post

so once again: Lion clan pure assholes, no redeeming qualitys whatsoever. Seriously is this a playable faction ? I always was under the impression the great clans..or any factions of any game should always have good and bad sides and players would choose there sides depending on what they would like to embody.

But this mess ? Thats not the lion clan.

to sum up this new lion clan:

Our biggest familys are not interested in tactics at all exept for one guy..who is considered "the weird one" for it. He is champion though. Only it doesent do us any good becourse his "disadvantage" is that he is not able to make quick decisions which is the single greatest flaw you can have as a commander.

Our main focus according to the 1,30 min video seems to be "getting killed in battle". Bushido...not even mentioned.

I just think it must confuse people who are new to the game why anyone in there right mind would play this faction and rightfully so. Heres the summation of the old wiki wich for some reason (although in case of the lion clan very fitting) is in past tense :

The Lion Clan were the Right Hand of the Emperor , recording the military and political interactions between the Clans. They were the epitome of bushido and the very example of valor. Next to the Seppun family they were most likely to serve as the Emperor's guardsmen. They comprised the greater portion of the Imperial Legions . The Lion Clan was founded by the Kami Akodo .

a **** I could go on..but whats the point and on top of all that there introducing this hatamoto system that expects me to fight for a clan that has all the good stuff sucked out and replaced with bad stuff. (political manipulations? really? you think "Lion Clan" if someone mentiones political manipulation? )

I like this fiction's ties to the Phoenix one, as they could both be seen as dealing with the importance of tradition. In the in the Phoenix one we see them struggling with a formerly familiar element as their magic goes haywire but we also see Tsukune getting the support of the previous champions. Now we see the Unicorn with their own magic, traditions and their more relaxed approach to rokugani customs.

The thing is that in both we get a feeling of 'this is important to us' regarding their ways, and see that they would be ready fight for them, but neither would come out as villainous right away in that situation.

7 minutes ago, notimportant2 said:

(political manipulations? really? you think "Lion Clan" if someone mentiones political manipulation? )

I'd just like to point out that "Clan X is usually the one associated with Y" doesn't necessarily mean "Clan X is the ONLY CLAN IN ALL OF ROKUGAN that does Y".

2 hours ago, Kitsuki Edogawa said:

Legitimacy is up to the parents of any child to acknowledge. There is a stigma to bastard children, but primarily because their existence suggests some impropriety from their parents. As long as there is a clear line of succession, however, it may not be much of a concern. It's better that there is an heir than not, as long as there isn't a challenge of legitimacy.

To continue along these lines many unmarried bacholers who have proven themselves strong are asked to have children to keep the clan strong. Toshimoko sired two sons this way. (okay only one was because his clan told him so, the other was with a geisha I think)

And he was a Crane they are The Clan that cares about propriety.