Don't get me wrong, I'm super keen for it and will no doubt buy everything they release and play it to death... currently though, based on what we have seen I can only imagine that after a few proper trial games most of the new stuff will go into the box I have where I put most of my skirmish minis because they just get no play time in a competitive gaming circle... Consider:

Darth - So far pure gold, no question about it. The swamp map may be a problem for him but I expect many dark lords running around.

Asoka - Similar to Darth, not an auto include but certainly a welcome boost and we are all hoping that these two will see a bunch of new Jedi cards more exciting than that lame looking force jump or whatever it was.

Maul - Here's where I start to go nyah, not bad at all, a great concept and an interesting ruleset but does he stack up against the plethora of amazing for points minis scum currently have? I don't see it.

Clawdite - Did anyone else notice they lost a dice in the attack pool between the previews we've seen. I still reckon they will be good, not so much for the shooting side but to my thinking at the moment spies are the only real hope to countering the luck factor that we are seeing with the card draw. Its increasingly likely that your opponent will draw their entire deck in a game (unless they are imperials...) so its not a question of IF that assassinate/Son of Skywalker/On the Lam/Blaze of Glory comes out its more a question of when... More spies is good for me, can't wait to see the 'forms'

AT-DP - Yay a big vehicle thing with good stats and health for price, finally its awesome. Wait... it's slow as ****... I suspect that much like the Rancor what looks good on paper probably won't perform on the table but I'm happy to be proven wrong. Maybe some cool vehicle buffing cards?!?!

The Emperor - The ultimate dark side user... except he's also slow as **** with abilities reflective of of his mole like eyesight. If you can manage to bring everyone to you it shouldn't be a problem but I don't see him being tough enough to cross the board and bring those enemies into range, even more so on the new swamp map that just rewards long range snipers in spades. I know at first there was heaps of talk about him being a support figure to double Darth's damage output but I just don't see that 21 point combo doing the job in reality... I could see him more as a rearguard making BT or Terro (perhaps a AT-DP) shoot double, that's more realistic to me but again it's a wait and see thing.

I would love to see entire teams made up of force users or vehicles which will be buffed by amazing new cards but at the moment it's those upgrades which are going to make or break this wave much as hunter cards did for the last wave. On paper these new minis have as many hits as misses to me in a meta increasingly focused on rapid lethality rather than positioning, objectives or general shenanigans...

What say you?

You're right quite at all.

The really important thing is the fix of temporary alliance and the abuse of Gideon and C3PO in scum lists.

Without this fix nothing will change.

The other big problem is the fact that empire has not good low cost units: you can get 7-8 activation only including useless officiers.

Rebels are quite competitive, and Ashoka will be absolutely a good boost!

3 hours ago, beefcake4000 said:

Clawdite - Did anyone else notice they lost a dice in the attack pool between the previews we've seen. I still reckon they will be good, not so much for the shooting side but to my thinking at the moment spies are the only real hope to countering the luck factor that we are seeing with the card draw. Its increasingly likely that your opponent will draw their entire deck in a game (unless they are imperials...) so its not a question of IF that assassinate/Son of Skywalker/On the Lam/Blaze of Glory comes out its more a question of when... More spies is good for me, can't wait to see the 'forms'

The Clawdite that was previewed at some event that someone took photos of, that had a three dice attack was the elite version. The article previewed version was the regular version. I still have my hopes up. If there is still a difference between the two, I'm curious about the cost of the eClawdite.

On second thought - since it is likely that the Form cards are the same for rClawdite and eClawdite, the only way to make them better would be the stats, so it does actually make a lot of sense that the eClawdite would be a three die figure, probably with a Health boost as well. Since speed and defense are less likely to be different, those are the only two stats that make sense to change.

Without knowing anything about the Riot Troopers ... they are Close Combat Figures. How good can they be at all?

The elite Sentry Droids actually might bring the Empire back on the table.

In the end, it will be in the cards. Upgrades/Attachments and Command Cards. As long as we don't know these, it's just speculation.

3 hours ago, Darth Frank said:

You're right quite at all.

The really important thing is the fix of temporary alliance and the abuse of Gideon and C3PO in scum lists.

Without this fix nothing will change.

The other big problem is the fact that empire has not good low cost units: you can get 7-8 activation only including useless officiers.

Rebels are quite competitive, and Ashoka will be absolutely a good boost!

Temp Alliance - This will literally change almost nothing. It will just go from everyone playing Merc hunters to playing rebel hunters. Not much of a difference IMO. Rebel hunters with the eRangers aren't that far behind eQuays and the Merc heroes anyways(possibly not at all now with the new Nal Hutta map)

Better to fix Argus and C3PO (just let them target Rebel figures...)

30 minutes ago, DerBaer said:

Without knowing anything about the Riot Troopers ... they are Close Combat Figures. How good can they be at all?

The elite Sentry Droids actually might bring the Empire back on the table.

In the end, it will be in the cards. Upgrades/Attachments and Command Cards. As long as we don't know these, it's just speculation.

I don't think melee units are stuck automatically being bad by any means. They definitely need some extra defense to make sure they can get in range though compared to ranged figures though.

yeah, I don't understand all the beef with temp alliance. Relax and let the company release things. Stuff will get good and new stuff will be played no matter what. I'd like it if every new wave didn't completely wipe out all the previous waves as far as effectiveness goes. Wookiees . . . I've got buckets of them as well as most of the core set , etc.

Let's balance the game without losing more pieces

4 minutes ago, Hida Honk said:

Better to fix Argus and C3PO (just let them target Rebel figures...)

TBH that does the same thing as well. If Gideon and 3PO are broken(I'm not 100% either way) then they are broken for Rebels just as much as Mercs. I don't see why it's okay for them to provide great utility for Rebels at 5 cost but if they do the same thing for Mercs for 6 points everyone flips their ****.

Now that's only accounting for balance. I will agree that it's super frustrating to see two of the same figures in a majority of lists in the game and they definitely kill some of the variety we would otherwise see in the support slots.

I can get behind that kind of fix for Gideon, as thematically I don't like fielding him in Scum either. Just seems wrong. He's a rebel and that's it. C-3PO on the other hand, that would be a shame. He's a droid. He could (and have for a short while) worked for Scum/Jawa's. It makes sense that Scum can include him. Just like Han. I tried playing a smugglers box out of Scum allying for Han and Jyn and Jawa-ing for 3PO with Onar as my last box piece. Was fun and felt thematic as a pre-ANH list. Would be a shame to see that kind of stuff die out. I've also had fun with som Cloud City lists allying in Lando and someone to go with my Wing Guards and Ugnaughts.

Those may not be the 'most' competitive lists, but I don't think they were that bad either and as a half-casual half-competive playing, having those options keep the game fun and interesting for me.

I'm actually super pumped about this wave. I loved Jabba's wave, but it was distressing in how much it swept the slate clean and shifted the entire meta. I much prefer only one or two staples getting added, with other cards added in that offer more avenues for list building. I want more variety, not more super units. This wave looks to bring more balance to the force, with each faction getting a boost, perhaps Imperials most of all (and they are the ones who need it most).

But I'm also not always looking for the most competitive builds. At my local tourneys, I brought double Rancor lists for several months (so much death and glory!). I have been running the following list on Vassal, and it is super fun to play: Double AT-DPs (named Boom and Pow), double eJets, rJets, and an officer (plus Zillo and Rule by Fear). I have been really shocked at how potent the AT-DPs are. Sure, they only have a minimum of 5 damage, but with an officer they can move five on their turn and shoot at least five, with a reroll for better range if the first shot is a miss. If I'm moving in a straight line, that's maybe 12 away from my deployment zone on turn one, not too shabby. And the rest of the list is also all vehicles (plus the AT-DP's lackey officer), so all my vehicle command cards are viable, which will be important assuming we get more vehicle card boosts.

What they really need is an upgrade like Beast Tamer. I think that alone would push the AT-DP up into vying for competitive play. Will we get this? I don't know, but it would create an Imperial version of the Creature lists that Scum has, which would be really cool, and I'm holding out for hope (and what's exciting is that even if we didn't get it, there's alway the chance the we will later on).

Then there's the force users, a trait that needs some buffing. I'm betting we see some cool force cards coming our way, which might make Maul and other force-centric lists more interesting (and as a side note, one reason I don't want to see TA get nerfed is seen best in Maul--I really want to force him to serve at the pleasure of the Emperor. I love that even after he is "killed" the Emperor can pump another damage into him to give him a plus one, and then use him to attack, and then Maul still gets his activation).

I mention all this not to say that your scepticism is wrong, but merely to suggets that the wave might round out these units in ways that will surprise us.

Plus, Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader Vader!!!!!!! :-)

-ryanjamal

1 hour ago, DerBaer said:

Without knowing anything about the Riot Troopers ... they are Close Combat Figures. How good can they be at all?

The elite Sentry Droids actually might bring the Empire back on the table.

In the end, it will be in the cards. Upgrades/Attachments and Command Cards. As long as we don't know these, it's just speculation.

What are our estimates for the eSentry Droids?

Seems obvious they will be 8 cost for a set and still roll two greens. Are we thinking 7 health apiece or is there a chance they get bumped to 8?(note ePigs/eTuskens/eJets vs their regular counterparts)

They'll probably lose the -1 damage on the Multi Fire and get an extra accuracy on the Charged Shot for +3.

They'll obviously get a surge for +2 dmg and I'd guess the accuracy surge also gets a small bump to 2 or 3.

So with all that in mind how playable are they? Worth running with eJets as a backbone for Imperial lists? Four points for a figure with 2 green die is a little more than I'd like to pay but hopefully the utility of multi shot/charged shot makes up for it. We all know how great rerolls are especially on solid dice like green.

I don't know if they can compete with the ridiculous utility of eJets but I can defintely see them being a compliment to them.

6 minutes ago, TheUnsullied said:

What are our estimates for the eSentry Droids?

Seems obvious they will be 8 cost for a set and still roll two greens. Are we thinking 7 health apiece or is there a chance they get bumped to 8?(note ePigs/eTuskens/eJets vs their regular counterparts)

They'll probably lose the -1 damage on the Multi Fire and get an extra accuracy on the Charged Shot for +3.

They'll obviously get a surge for +2 dmg and I'd guess the accuracy surge also gets a small bump to 2 or 3.

So with all that in mind how playable are they? Worth running with eJets as a backbone for Imperial lists? Four points for a figure with 2 green die is a little more than I'd like to pay but hopefully the utility of multi shot/charged shot makes up for it. We all know how great rerolls are especially on solid dice like green.

I don't know if they can compete with the ridiculous utility of eJets but I can defintely see them being a compliment to them.

I think the same, they will probably have this profile, but I don't think they will change so much Empire strategy.

We also know that regular riot troopers cost 5 (2 single model): we can suppose that elite will cost 7-8 (like egammos).. So it's difficult to imagine again how can work with actual empire strategy

10 minutes ago, TheUnsullied said:

What are our estimates for the eSentry Droids?

Seems obvious they will be 8 cost for a set and still roll two greens. Are we thinking 7 health apiece or is there a chance they get bumped to 8?(note ePigs/eTuskens/eJets vs their regular counterparts)

They'll probably lose the -1 damage on the Multi Fire and get an extra accuracy on the Charged Shot for +3.

They'll obviously get a surge for +2 dmg and I'd guess the accuracy surge also gets a small bump to 2 or 3.

So with all that in mind how playable are they? Worth running with eJets as a backbone for Imperial lists? Four points for a figure with 2 green die is a little more than I'd like to pay but hopefully the utility of multi shot/charged shot makes up for it. We all know how great rerolls are especially on solid dice like green.

I don't know if they can compete with the ridiculous utility of eJets but I can defintely see them being a compliment to them.

I would guess that they also get a way to add an extra die to their attack pool; that seems to be pretty standard for Elite versions of troopers. Maybe (as someone already suggested) the Charged Shot becomes Supercharged Shot, and they become focused before they attack or add a blue die instead of just adding accuracy.

1 minute ago, Stompburger said:

I would guess that they also get a way to add an extra die to their attack pool; that seems to be pretty standard for Elite versions of troopers. Maybe (as someone already suggested) the Charged Shot becomes Supercharged Shot, and they become focused before they attack or add a blue die instead of just adding accuracy.

Idk if they get a third die along with being able to use Multi Shot with no penalty then they'll definitely be a force to be reckoned with. Probably even more dominant than the eQuays are now. Minus the Hunter command cards of course.

My Elite Sentry Droid prediction from another topic:

Cost 8, No additional abilities, Rapid Fire instead of Multi-Fire, Surge for 2 DMG instead of 1 DMG, Surge for +2 Range instead of +1. Maybe an additional +1 range, +1 DMG or even a Focus on the Charged Weapon, called Over-Charged Shot.

1 hour ago, TheUnsullied said:

TBH that does the same thing as well. If Gideon and 3PO are broken(I'm not 100% either way) then they are broken for Rebels just as much as Mercs. I don't see why it's okay for them to provide great utility for Rebels at 5 cost but if they do the same thing for Mercs for 6 points everyone flips their ****.

Now that's only accounting for balance. I will agree that it's super frustrating to see two of the same figures in a majority of lists in the game and they definitely kill some of the variety we would otherwise see in the support slots.

Mercs as a faction are a little bit overpowered at the moment. And lists lack variety. Both could be stopped by making Gideon's and 3PO's focus rebelscum only.

It's not just a question of balance, but a question of having fun building lists.

26 minutes ago, TheUnsullied said:

Idk if they get a third die along with being able to use Multi Shot with no penalty then they'll definitely be a force to be reckoned with. Probably even more dominant than the eQuays are now. Minus the Hunter command cards of course.

Well, the 3rd die would probably either only apply to 1 attack from Multi-shot, or only be usable with their version of Charged Shot.

4 minutes ago, DerBaer said:

It's not just a question of balance, but a question of having fun building lists.

That's completely fine then. On the record I don't think TA should be changed for "fun list building" because people could argue the same either way. It's fun to mix and match things together a little bit imo.

What I'll agree is not fun is seeing 3PO/Gideon in every Merc/Rebel list.

I'd much rather any change made have to do with actual balance and health of the game.

2 minutes ago, Stompburger said:

Well, the 3rd die would probably either only apply to 1 attack from Multi-shot, or only be usable with their version of Charged Shot.

Yeah but just think about how good that would be. Let's says it's only a blue die and not a full focus. Compare that to the eQuays and their Prowl(hidden) ability that everyone thinks is really strong. Now you have a figure that can self focus(or add a blue die) without even using an action.

I imagine there will be some kind of benefit from the eSentries charged shot but even as an imperial player I really hope it isn't a focus or an extra die. I'm hoping for +1 dmg and +3 accuracy to give them a minimum 5 range. A surge would be nice in place of the damage as well.

17 minutes ago, TheUnsullied said:

Yeah but just think about how good that would be. Let's says it's only a blue die and not a full focus. Compare that to the eQuays and their Prowl(hidden) ability that everyone thinks is really strong. Now you have a figure that can self focus(or add a blue die) without even using an action.

I imagine there will be some kind of benefit from the eSentries charged shot but even as an imperial player I really hope it isn't a focus or an extra die. I'm hoping for +1 dmg and +3 accuracy to give them a minimum 5 range. A surge would be nice in place of the damage as well.

Well, they are going to have to be a 4+ point figure. That's putting them on the level of eJets (or maybe better if they cost 8 or 9), and eJets can add an extra die.

2 minutes ago, Stompburger said:

Well, they are going to have to be a 4+ point figure. That's putting them on the level of eJets (or maybe better if they cost 8 or 9), and eJets can add an extra die.

eJets have a requirement of being without two spaces of their target. They also don't have "multi attack" or two good surges like the Sentries do so often they end up with an extra surge. Add the automatic Targeting Computer on top of all that and you've got a unit that is ridiculously strong in my opinion.

1 hour ago, TheUnsullied said:

What are our estimates for the eSentry Droids?

I like the idea of Supercharged shot adding a blue die, but I think it'll just increase the flat Accuracy bonus from 2 to 3 since I expect eSentries to get SURGE for +2 Accuracy.

I wouldn't be surprised if the -1 DMG stays on Multi-Fire... since eSentries should have SURGE for +2 DMG and would likely keep SURGE for Pierce 2. Multi-Fire + a SURGE Power Token (or Hidden) is very dangerous, considering you can Multi-Fire two hostile figures and guarantee one of the shots at Accuracy 4 w/ SURGE for +2 Accuracy!

If eSentries deployment cost is 8, I would expect their HP to be 7 or 8. It makes sense they're a bit beefier with the Guardian type and the other types it has really don't allow much in the way of damage increases like Hunters can.

Also, don't forget they'll be Troopers: So they'll work great with Captain Terro's card, Kayn Somos (if Kayn becomes playable), Call the Vanguard, Grenadier, etc.

The AT-DP seems crummy by itself, but my guess is that there is a Beast Tamer-esque skirmish upgrade in there for vehicles that'll make it worth running. Given that the Q3 alt art is Weiss, that seems to me like another indication that a vehicle upgrade is coming.

Either way, without knowing what command cards there are and that we still know very little about the wave as a whole, I suspect there'll be a lot worth running. Remember that hunters are only as powerful as they are because of the command card boon.