What if you change the card to say that if you hit with the first attack that you don't get the second attack?

or if the first shot hits you get the second... other option is change it to range 1- 2

Or do what should be done for all cannon and turret weapons, and doesn't require a change to a single card -- Range 3 bonuses apply.

My logic comes from two sources, theme and mechanics:

(1) From a mechanical perspective, it weakens the turrets slightly at range 3. It is consistent with those ships that have primary weapon turrets (YTs, etc) who have range effects still apply -- why do secondary turrets not have this limitation? The cost of the upgrade is compensated for by its flexibility -- out of arc, special effects, etc.

(2) From a thematic perspective, it made sense for missiles and torpedoes to not have range bonuses -- in theory they have fixed warheads and guidance systems. In contrast, primary weapons, turrets, and cannons are aimed weapons without guidance, whose accuracy diminishes at range making it harder to land multiple shots.

The beauty of this change is it doesn't affect a single card -- it's errata to the rulebook, which is already available as a free pdf.

7 minutes ago, Hawkstrike said:

Or do what should be done for all cannon and turret weapons, and doesn't require a change to a single card -- Range 3 bonuses apply.

My logic comes from two sources, theme and mechanics:

(1) From a mechanical perspective, it weakens the turrets slightly at range 3. It is consistent with those ships that have primary weapon turrets (YTs, etc) who have range effects still apply -- why do secondary turrets not have this limitation? The cost of the upgrade is compensated for by its flexibility -- out of arc, special effects, etc.

(2) From a thematic perspective, it made sense for missiles and torpedoes to not have range bonuses -- in theory they have fixed warheads and guidance systems. In contrast, primary weapons, turrets, and cannons are aimed weapons without guidance, whose accuracy diminishes at range making it harder to land multiple shots.

The beauty of this change is it doesn't affect a single card -- it's errata to the rulebook, which is already available as a free pdf.

I always imagined secondary weapons don't care about Range 3, because the ship's guidance is the one "aiming" and then firing.

Logical @Hawkstrike , very logical ?

Or get R3 bonus. TLT still the only one Turret with range 3, so make a general rule for giving R3 bonus for Turrets can be useful.

No real point to range bonus. Green dice are NEVER the answer

11 minutes ago, Superstrength79 said:

I always imagined secondary weapons don't care about Range 3, because the ship's guidance is the one "aiming" and then firing.

I buy that for missiles and torps. For cannons? If that's true on a Firespray, why wouldn't they use that fire control on the primary weapon? Y-wings we know have turret gunners except in the one-man versions where the turrets are locked forward.

Doesn't work for my head-canon, I'm afraid.

My ideal fix would be that it only costs 5 points on HWKS and Aggressors.

Double post.

Heck, I'd be fine with saying that all range bonuses apply to secondary turrets- meaning they get +1D when attacking at range 1. I don't think it would unbalance any of them except Autoblaster turret and maybe Dorsal Turret, but you could fix either or both of those with a simple errata that says "range 1 bonuses do not apply when using this weapon."

for that matter, I'd be more than happy with applying range bonuses to regular cannons, too. Again, it wouldn't break anything, and it might actually fix Autoblaster Cannon enough to make people consider playing it.

Seriously, it would be such a good move for the game as a whole.

I'd given them either Synced Turrets [Target Lock] requirement or [Focus] Requirement if you want to make them not that restrictive.

Alternatively, make them range 3 only or nerf the number of Attack Dice you get for either one or both attacks.

Make it 4 dice, remove the 1 damage part, rebel and scum only. Fixed

</sarcasm>

Requiring a TL or Focus would pretty much only limit the Aggressor since now it never wants to barrelroll. The other TLT users always get a focus/tl anyway since they cant do anything else with their action and the red moves they got are rarely the good move.

I think range bonuses should apply. It makes sense for a missile/torp to NOT give the range bonus, but whats the difference between your main gun and your cannon/turret? The name.

Any putative fix to TLT should add *interest* to its play, not just vary its power. Make it care about arcs, actions, or both.

My fix would look something like this (in each case adding the text about cancelling and dealing one damage, and being able to attack out of arc):

1: TLT

Attack 3

*Normal TLT text about PTAT*

Range 2

You may attack targets inside your firing arc at range 3 with this weapon.

OR

2: TLT

Attack 3

Range 2-3

PTAT if the target is inside your firing arc.

OR

3: TLT Attack 3 range 2-3.

After attacking, you may repeat this attack if you have the target locked. If you do you may not attack again this round.

All make it care either about attacking or manoeuvring. 1 changes the range band significantly for in versus out of arc. 2 only gives the second attack if the target is in arc. 3 gives it if you have the target locked, and makes for a neat combo with R4 Agromech, pushing scum Ys, at least, to use something other than Unhinged/R2. And all represent significant power nerfs as well.

What I want from TLT is for it to care about something other than evading enemy arcs and dodging rocks. I want it to care where it's pointing. Synced Turret set an example for turrets that should have been the standard from the start.

What if all turrets receive a -1 to their power if they do not have a target lock on the ship they are shooting at?

1 hour ago, ramy said:

What if you change the card to say that if you hit with the first attack that you don't get the second attack?

No, just no. 1dmg/turn max for a ship?? An Ion turret would do more than that and be cheaper. We have to stay logical...

TLTs are fine like they are. Yes they are powerful but they can be beaten. There only 2 ships with TLT that are top meta at the moment (Miranda and Kanan) have other features that put them there . If (or when :-) they correct adv slam+bomb, Miranda will be perfectly managable wtih her TLT. Kanan has Biggs The 4x TLT squads (for all 3 factions) are not even top meta at the moment...

Also the one big problem with changing TLT is that outside of a few case (ex: Nym with autoblaster) there is no other valid turret upgrade alternative. Change TLT and you make 4x Ywing and 4x Aggressors useless.

3 minutes ago, Monkeyshine77 said:

What if all turrets receive a -1 to their power if they do not have a target lock on the ship they are shooting at?

Wont work for the same reason synch turret doesnt work: ships with low PS have a hard time getting the TL. Would screw 4xTLT more than the builds that are currently top meta.

Dont run 4x ywings or aggressors then?

Not every list has to be a spamhappy list. Variety usually goes just as far as spamming if you can find the combos.

I actually prefer having multiple strats because it messes with my opponent's target priority. Part of the reason my vader/deathrain/sabaac list did so good was no matter who was deemed as the "deadliest and must die first" ship, the others were able to cripple you while your intended target just plays "Cant touch this!" all day. When you spam the same thing it becomes very obvious what you have to do and the question instead becomes can you do what needs to be done.

Make it so TLT dice can't be rerolled or modified.

The best solution I have seen so far is to make [crit] results not count so only [hit] results matter.

8 minutes ago, spartan1128 said:

The best solution I have seen so far is to make [crit] results not count so only [hit] results matter.

Yep. Easiest, fairest solution.

There should just be a blanket rule saying that ships gain +1 green dice vs attacks that are out of arc. Be it primary or secondary weapons.

Look at epic Quadlaser turret for something that might be more balanced than current TLT. Essentially a Gunner effect, only get second hit if first misses, but no damage cap.

13 minutes ago, spartan1128 said:

The best solution I have seen so far is to make [crit] results not count so only [hit] results matter.

if that ever happened i would laugh my *** off if i see a TLT user roll 3 crits lol