Hi guys, so the following questions arose in my first 200 point game (Really great experience with back and forth between who was winning, (Nearly lost when his Kari Wraithstalker rolled 5 surges and oneshot killed my Ankaur Maro)

1: Engagement

In the following picture Lord Hawthorne has just done a straight charge, and we have moved him so that he ignores the allied unit and just moved him straight untill he collides with the enemy unit. The question now is, "what happens".



Red: Lord Hawthorne cannot square up and therefore goes back to colliding with the spearmen.
Green: Lord Hawthorne hits the enemy, alligns front rows, but since he cannot square up he stays engaged like that.
Blue: Lord Hawthorne hits the enemy, and since he cannot square up we just move him over so he is engaged with the carrion lancer without hitting the spearmen.
Yellow. Like green but here the carrion lancer is moved so the 2 are squared up.
Black: None of the above (please explain further)

2: Reforming

Lets say i have started out with a 3x2 unit, and now 2 of my back row trays are gone. I am now flanked on a side where there is only 1 tray. Is it legal to rotate around the tray that is missing on the back row, or can i only rotate around trays actually there or the center.

3. Lingering Dead

If my unit is 3 trays wide but there are no units in a tray because of lingering dead. Do i have 3 or 2 threat?

If the answer is 2, then would a unit engaged with the empty tray actually be engaged with my unit?

4. Damaging units

If i have a 3x2 unit, is it legal to attack the back row middle unit first? (I know it isnt if it was 3x1 since the unit would be split in 2.

If it is legal then once the middle is gone, what will my threat be against the unit if i have a unit engaged only with 1 of the 2 back trays.

5. Shield of Margath

If an attack kills a unit holding shield of margath, will it still function that attack? (Would guess not since it says after that attack, and at that time the unit and thereby the shield is gone.)

So just read some of the newest posts and saw that my third question had already been answered a couple of days ago. So sorry about that one.

Nice picture. My opinion on your questions.

1. The answer is the red one. You can only successfully end a charge when there is space for the unit before squaring up.

2. This is one of the questions that I think needs further examples in the faqs, but you rotate around the contact line with the enemy unit, not the center. This is done in order to avoid losing contact with the enemy after reform.

3. No problem.

4. Yes, it is legal. As I understand it the threat would still be 2. For the threat calculation, it does not matter how many are in direct contact with the enemy.

5. I would say that the effects are simultaneous, it makes sense lore wise (the shield reacts magically to the enemy's attack) and game wise (it would take away a big part of its value and would probably have been specified if it was the case).

Regarding 5, I agree with the OP that Shield of Margath deals no damage if the equipped unit is defeated because it does not resolve until the triggering attack is completed. Trays are removed before the attack step is over, so the unit and all upgrades would be removed before the shield could trigger.

Regarding question 2, this is the relevant rules reference text:

Quote

68.2 If an active unit performs a reform (?) action while engaged with one or more units, the active unit can rotate around either its center point or the center point of any of its individual trays.

• After performing the reform action while engaged, the active unit must be touching the same enemy units along the same contacted edge of the enemy unit that it was touching before performing the reform action.

Also (from68.1):

Quote

A unit’s center point is determined by drawing a rectangle around the outer-most edges of the unit’s trays and finding the center point of that rectangle.

Read closely this seems clear to me, that the unit can only rotate around the center of actual trays ("any of its individual trays"). But the unit's center point can also be used, and remains the same as for the original 3x2 unit, as the rectangle around all the trays counts.

Thanks for the answers, hope we get more as im still a bit unconvinced when only 1 person for example have answered question 1

2 hours ago, Drakthal said:

Thanks for the answers, hope we get more as im still a bit unconvinced when only 1 person for example have answered question 1

No one else need answer, as the info given is correct. Generally reforming while engaged negates unit center, if not square, as that would not maintain engagement as required.

I also agree that #1 is the red square. Movement ends before squaring up. You can't end movement in a collision state, it has to be resolved.

While correct information was indeed given on #1, sometimes reinforcement is needed.
The answer to your first question is indeed the red position, not because he cannot square up. The relevant bit would be RR 55.3, 2nd bullet point: "If the unit would overlap no more than a single tray of an allied unit during a move and does not overlap any part of that allied unit at the end of the move , that allied unit is not treated as an obstacle and does not cause a collision. To complete this movement, the unit may need to be picked up and moved over the allied unit.?" (emphasis mine)

But isn't squaring up part of the move? No, it is not. When a unit's travel along a movement template is curtailed by an obstacle, a collision occurs. Collisions, by definition (RR 18, first paragraph), happen after a move. Squaring up is a result of a collision (RR 18.1), and therefor happens after the move. Hawthorns final position at the end of the move has him overlapping the allied spearmen unit.

As an interesting aside, I noticed in reading through RR 77 Squaring Up again that at no point is the re-positioning of the unit squaring up referred to with the word move or any congregate there of. The unit is sliding or pivoting, but not moving.

But, @Glucose98 said it much more succinctly than I did just as I was about to hit post.

Thank you for the answer Gorek, was exactly what i was looking for and seems from your answer there's another rule we have been playing with in the wrong way. From what you write one unit cannot move through another unit if that unit has more than 1 row, or if the moving unit does not do so through one of the borderline trays, since in those cases it will always at some point touch more than one tray. Suddenly makes strategizing alot harder around moving rules.

3 hours ago, Drakthal said:

Thank you for the answer Gorek, was exactly what i was looking for and seems from your answer there's another rule we have been playing with in the wrong way. From what you write one unit cannot move through another unit if that unit has more than 1 row, or if the moving unit does not do so through one of the borderline trays, since in those cases it will always at some point touch more than one tray. Suddenly makes strategizing alot harder around moving rules.

What helped me make the movement rules click was realizing nothing can fly, so it never leaves the ground. Don't ever pick up the unit. If something is in your way, slide until you touch it then ask yourself what it is you ran into and go from there.

Rule 81.2 (last section) says that activation ends and bonus actions and other game effects is cancelled when ENTERING terrain.

But if I'm not gone blind I can't find in the rules that would also be the case for exiting? I.e can Oathsworn still move with their 2-move bonus action on their modifier dial after exiting terrain?

Yes, they can do that. I had my opponent move out of terrain with his Rune Golems and then do reform as a bonus action to get out of contact with the terrain (to avoid my charge).

7 hours ago, Uthoroc said:

Yes, they can do that. I had my opponent move out of terrain with his Rune Golems and then do reform as a bonus action to get out of contact with the terrain (to avoid my charge).

Must have had a non-square unit of Rune Golems? (2x1) ?

Yup, a 2x1. But since you don't need to touch the terrain with the center of the rear (with a march), it is quite possible to rotate away even with a square unit.