So I'm trying to draw a direct comparison with how much time saving the Armada tournament style does versus the X-Wing tournament style. However, while I was certain that Armada Worlds 2017 drew a comparable number of people as did X-Wing Worlds, I can't find hard numbers to back up that memory at ALL.
Can I get a hand?
12 minutes ago, iamfanboy said:So I'm trying to draw a direct comparison with how much time saving the Armada tournament style does versus the X-Wing tournament style. However, while I was certain that Armada Worlds 2017 drew a comparable number of people as did X-Wing Worlds, I can't find hard numbers to back up that memory at ALL.
Can I get a hand?
Field of around 72.
They played from 1:30 until about 9, I believe, on the Thursday.
On the Friday, they played until 3:30pm, and then it was Top 4 cut, and those 2 games run until after 10 that night
35 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:Field of around 72.
They played from 1:30 until about 9, I believe, on the Thursday.
On the Friday, they played until 3:30pm, and then it was Top 4 cut, and those 2 games run until after 10 that night
Times are about right, though if I'm not mistaken the field started at 84. Several dropped, so the final number was likely closer to yours, but most that dropped did so after Day 1.
....for a game that takes 2.25 hours to finish each round, versus 1.25 hours. Interesting... I do wonder how it would work if a similar system were applied to X-Wing... would it speed up the games? If you had a top cut that required a certain score to reach and everyone else were left out, what then..?
The overall systems used by Armada and X-Wing are the same, the only difference is, because of the reduced game time, X-Wing plays more Games... because they play more games, they have a larger Top Cut (usually 16, occasionally 32 based on attendance).
The Top Cuts in Armada are limited by the fact that you still need to play full games, and the final is always given 3hrs as well - extended playtime.
A Cut to a Top 4 already guarantees basically 6 hours until the end of a tournament...
A Top 8 Cut is pretty well a 10 hour day all on its own... So you just don't see it.
The thing is, if we could, I'd be very happy playing twice as many games in an Armada tournament, like X-wing does. The nature of the game (just the amount of time it takes) just doesn't make that practical.
On the other hand, the nature of the game does allow for non-binary outcomes (blowout vs effectively a draw), which can be weighted differently to measure overall player performance at a more granular level in fewer games vice X-wing.
There's a few reasons for the time savings.
First, bluntly, Armada is not nearly as well represented at Worlds. And it couldn't be without getting an even larger venue. Armada had over 80 attendees split between 2 days. X-Wing had over 180 for each day. You need far fewer games to separate out winners and losers with only a quarter as many players.
Second, the score spread possible in Armada is far larger than is currently possible in X-Wing. If you have 12 players go 3 rounds in X-Wing, you will end up with a 3-way tie for first place assuming every game is a direct win or loss. In Armada, 3 games should be enough for the top players to be fairly evened out depending on their score. This means you can expect to have 3 rounds separate players more efficiently than they can in X-Wing.
Another reason for faster games in X-Wing is the way the mechanical interactions of X-Wing tend to favor quick preparation and minimal second-guessing. X-Wing squadrons have more limited maneuvers, cannot pre-measure, and both players activate their ships in large batches based on pilot skill and other factors. Armada is a back-and-forth game of activations, where every single ship and squadron needs to go through a carefully prepared and considered full sequence of actions before passing the activation back to the other player and this occurs in each round. Just the fact that you cannot check your maneuver options in X-Wings reduces play time, because players cannot search for the optimal configuration of maneuvers and actions ahead of their turn. They must choose from a pre-existing set of options in the moment. Also, X-Wing players do not typically have to make irreversible decisions for basic game actions 2-3 turns in advance for most or all of their ships. These decisions require additional consideration time at the start of each game round in Armada.
Finally, in most cases, Armada has to replicate these decisions for about 3-6 ships and multiple additional squadron units for one or even both sides, while 100 point competition X-Wing tends to rarely involve more than 4 units total on either side and often only 2-3 units.
Finally, the setup and transportation of models and tools takes longer in Armada events, and you need longer breaks in between rounds to account for setup and also for players needing to step away from the table after a 2+ hour game. However, you tend to have fewer rounds to move models in between. In X-Wing, a 100 player tournament likely has enough rounds that between-round setup ultimately takes more time over the course of the day, in addition to a lunch break and other side issues resulting from its length.
The end result:
Armada tournaments can potentially take less time because they have fewer players, need fewer rounds to separate top players from lower players, and generally don't require as much time between rounds in total for the entire event. Also, there are no additional "cut" games in most situations.
However, Armada tournaments with the same number of rounds as an X-Wing tournament will almost always take significantly longer due to the higher average game length and larger unit count in most matches.
But could the Armada system be applied to X Wing to reduce the number of rounds required in X Wing? Armada uses 11 points distributed between the two players based on how close the game was. Then there is MoV that is used as a tiebreaker. X Wing uses 1 point assigned to the winner, and MoV to rank those with the same number of wins. What's preventing X Wing from adopting a 11 point system based on how close the game is? If done in this method, every 20 points (assuming equal distribution of MoV points) would represent a single point. So instead of two guys winning, one who had just a TIE fighter left (so 112 MoV) vs. another who demolished his opponent (so 200 MoV) having the same "score" and having to used the secondary tie breaker of MoV - you could bake it right into the score, giving one a 6pt win and the other an 10pt win. Theoretically, this should be able to reduce the number of rounds required to sort out the top competition just like it does in Armada. Given it also introduces the largest short coming of the Armada system to X wing as well (namely that if you get matched against a noob you get the full points while the top two players may match against each other and neither of them score well going 5 and 6).