Hello - I'm an RPG player with not much interest in the card game, and I only just now heard that FFG was rebooting the game. I'm mainly curious to know what major changes I should know about regarding the story - I heard that Doji Hoturi is now a woman named Doji Hotaru, which I think is pretty cool. I'm in favor of explicitly putting LGBT characters in games. Other than that, I have no idea what has changed.

Doji Satsume is dead pre-coup, as is Shiba Ujimitsu (with Tsukune inheriting the Soul of Shiba).

Interesting. I recently read over the stories, and Doji Satsume dying before the coup, as well as the fact that Bayushi Dairu literally cannot exist seems to indicate to me that they're not going the route of the Scorpion Clan Coup.

Just now, OculusDrake said:

Interesting. I recently read over the stories, and Doji Satsume dying before the coup, as well as the fact that Bayushi Dairu literally cannot exist seems to indicate to me that they're not going the route of the Scorpion Clan Coup.

We can only hope that's the case.

16 minutes ago, OculusDrake said:

..as well as the fact that Bayushi Dairu literally cannot exist ...

This is my number one bugbear about the new setting.

It is offset by the fact that we are likely to see far more Shoju than we ever have before.

I am happy with this trade-off.

That said...

I understand the desire to have more female champs from the offset, but I wish they had gender-swapped Toturi or Kisada, since that would not impact anything I personally care about.

1 hour ago, Yogo Gohei said:

This is my number one bugbear about the new setting.

It is offset by the fact that we are likely to see far more Shoju than we ever have before.

I am happy with this trade-off.

That said...

I understand the desire to have more female champs from the offset, but I wish they had gender-swapped Toturi or Kisada, since that would not impact anything I personally care about.

A female Kisada would be awesome and now I'm slightly disappointed they didn't do that, but I don't mind it going to Hoturi. Making the most iconic romance in L5R gay is a move I support wholehartedly, especially with how heteronormative the RPG books could be.

5 minutes ago, OculusDrake said:

A female Kisada would be awesome and now I'm slightly disappointed they didn't do that, but I don't mind it going to Hoturi. Making the most iconic romance in L5R gay is a move I support wholehartedly, especially with how heteronormative the RPG books could be.

I fully support the gay romance, and I don't want my comments to imply otherwise.

I also am pretty sure that's why they turned Hoturi into Hotaru. But that relationship cannot spawn a child. Those of us that had some emotional investment in that child in the previous incarnation of the game are disappointed. I know I can't possibly be the only one.

Just now, Yogo Gohei said:

I fully support the gay romance, and I don't want my comments to imply otherwise.

I also am pretty sure that's why they turned Hoturi into Hotaru. But that relationship cannot spawn a child. Those of us that had some emotional investment in that child in the previous incarnation of the game are disappointed. I know I can't possibly be the only one.

Nah, that's fair, I get the disappointment. Scorpion is tied with Phoenix for my second favorite clan after Crab (which are mostly my favorite because of the Kaiu, tbh, i love their concept) and losing out on an iconic Scorpion character like Dairu kinda sucks.

As to not hijack the thread with my complaining...

Toturi and Tsuko both witnessed Arasou die at the hands of the crane champ. In the old fiction they found out after the fact that he was killed by some random crane. The implications of this are potentially huge.

Yeah, THAT struck me as a major change. I think they might be putting the Crane/Lion conflict at the forefront in the beginning, instead of a Scorpion well-intentioned power grab, simply because of how they've already set up the inevitable Lion schism.

7 minutes ago, Yogo Gohei said:

I fully support the gay romance, and I don't want my comments to imply otherwise.

I also am pretty sure that's why they turned Hoturi into Hotaru. But that relationship cannot spawn a child. Those of us that had some emotional investment in that child in the previous incarnation of the game are disappointed. I know I can't possibly be the only one.

Yeah, it really can't be the same. Although I would be curious to see if they but something similar.

What are chances Hotaru would adopt a Scorpion into the Crane?

I don't think that be easy to make as interesting...

Let's see... New changes.

Dragon seem to have been cursed that they are not having enough kids. Togashi Yokuni has sezures when he sees the future. No word yet if he is the real Togashi.

Ujimitsu is dead pre coup, no word on how he died. With a sentence or two implying some possible internal conflict down the road.

Just now, Devin-the-Poet said:

Let's see... New changes.

Dragon seem to have been cursed that they are not having enough kids. Togashi Yokuni has sezures when he sees the future. No word yet if he is the real Togashi.

Ujimitsu is dead pre coup, no word on how he died. With a sentence or two implying some possible internal conflict down the road.

I mean. He's still *mysterious* and given how "Togashi is still alive" was such a major defining thing about the Dragon (until it wasn't), I doubt they'd make Yokuni not Togashi.

1 minute ago, Devin-the-Poet said:

Togashi Yokuni has sezures when he sees the future. No word yet if he is the real Togashi.

The story, to me, implied that either (a) the body swap retcon is baked into the setting or (b) Yokuni isn't Togashi full stop.

The fact that Mitsu is being groomed as his heir stronghly implies that Yokuni is not Togashi body, mind, and soul.

Other new things:

- There is some sort of elemental imbalance that the Phoenix are going to try to address.

- There is conflict between the Unicorn and Phoenix (I think over the Unicorn's magic).

- There is a heretical sect that has been put down in Phoenix lands but is still spreading in Dragon lands.

- The Dragon are, it seems, going to come down out of the mountains in force in the immediate future (as opposed to being almost entirely absent from the Empire until well after the Scorpion Clan Coup).

- The Crane are in a significantly weakened position due to a natural disaster.

- There seems to be a solid Scorpion/Lion alliance of convenience to keep the Crane down.

- The Wall is in bad shape.

Other changes that haven't been mentioned yet:

- The Phoenix seem to be gearing up for a war with the Unicorn over Meishodo.

- The Unicorn are led by a woman named Shinjo Altansarnai.

- There's a borderline-heretical cult growing among the Dragon, based on Pure Land Buddhism .

... and I just got ninja'd.

Anyway, I find it interesting that the gender-swapping took different forms for each of the new female champions. One is the same character except with ovaries, one was a later character pushed up in the timeline, and one seems to be an entirely new character.

9 minutes ago, Daramere said:

Other new things:

- The Crane are in a significantly weakened position due to a natural disaster.

I had forgotten this one. The crane, who were in old-cannon the "richest" clan are currently one of the poorest due to a Tsunami. That has definite implications going forward.

11 minutes ago, Daramere said:

- The Wall is in bad shape.

The condition of the wall seemed to be at the writers whim in the old story. It was completely impregnable, except when it wasn't.

Hopefully the new fiction is a bit more consistent about this.

6 hours ago, Yogo Gohei said:

I fully support the gay romance, and I don't want my comments to imply otherwise.

I also am pretty sure that's why they turned Hoturi into Hotaru. But that relationship cannot spawn a child. Those of us that had some emotional investment in that child in the previous incarnation of the game are disappointed. I know I can't possibly be the only one.

While I myself look forward to as few changes as possible (and, don't worry, I'm already resigned to be disappointed in that respect) I don't see the erasure of Dairyu as anything major. He was just a footnote character with zero developement. There is nothing of what happened later (False Hotaru) that cannot still happen. Scorned lover ie still one of the oldest motivations in the book.

5 hours ago, Fumi said:

and one seems to be an entirely new character.

Who knows? At the rate Champions are going, maybe Altansarnai has some kind of hunting accident and grief-stricken, not-suspicious-at-all Yokatsu has to take her place!

12 minutes ago, Mon no Oni said:

While I myself look forward to as few changes as possible (and, don't worry, I'm already resigned to be disappointed in that respect) I don't see the erasure of Dairyu as anything major. He was just a footnote character with zero developement. There is nothing of what happened later (False Hotaru) that cannot still happen. Scorned lover ie still one of the oldest motivations in the book.

Except...the entire reason Kachiko broke off the affair, swore bitter vengeance on Hoturi, and created the False Hoturi was entirely because of Dairu. Like, he's a pretty focal point to Kachiko's motivations as a character, so removing him changes quite a bit.

The way the soul of Shiba has been radically changed as well. ( it seems to me from readying the story that the elemental Council appoints the champion or at least the people the who can participate in the ritual that chooses the clan champion)

6 hours ago, OculusDrake said:

A female Kisada would be awesome and now I'm slightly disappointed they didn't do that, but I don't mind it going to Hoturi. Making the most iconic romance in L5R gay is a move I support wholehartedly, especially with how heteronormative the RPG books could be.

You make a fine point, Drake-san.

1 hour ago, Willisbatman said:

The way the soul of Shiba has been radically changed as well. ( it seems to me from readying the story that the elemental Council appoints the champion or at least the people the who can participate in the ritual that chooses the clan champion)

No, it's still the sword and the soul

57 minutes ago, Ide Yoshiya said:

You make a fine point, Drake-san.

god though i'm not even joking, reading "the man" and "the woman" so many times in the "romance" section of 4e Great Clans made my eyes roll so hard.

1 hour ago, OculusDrake said:

Except...the entire reason Kachiko broke off the affair, swore bitter vengeance on Hoturi, and created the False Hoturi was entirely because of Dairu. Like, he's a pretty focal point to Kachiko's motivations as a character, so removing him changes quite a bit.

Yes, Thank you for pointing this out. I'm good and all with including some changes to characters and adding in homosexual relationships. But this specific change borks up the entire Triangle between Shoju, Kachiko and Hoturi. Not to mention the the now eradicated storyline involving Hoturi's Foxwife. And I guess this means that Kachiko doesn't trick HOturi into murdering the Previous Phoenix champ at Winter Court for "assaulting" her honor?