How's this for a dumb idea, half points for ships with at least 1 damage card? It would buff B-wings, nerf Arc-170s, hurt the new fair ship rebels, and be neutral for things like Nym. If you tag Hull on a regen ship it doesn't matter as much if it gets away and regens.

It would over value Black Market Slicer Tools, Proton Bombs, and Kylo though. It would probably buff Inquisitor and Corran too. And it might give a reason to take that crazy Astromech out of the transport that everyone dismisses.

I think I only like it if Kylo ends up with an FAQ entry that it doesn't go under shields.

- Large ships, and small ships with 9 or more HP worth half points with less than half HP remaining

- Small ships with less than 9 HP worth half points with 1 HP remaining

Done

The half damage counts as anything on the large ships is B.S. to begin with. All that rule really says is, Don't take large ships to tournaments

38 minutes ago, ozmodon said:

The half damage counts as anything on the large ships is B.S. to begin with. All that rule really says is, Don't take large ships to tournaments

Lot's of people don't seem to see it that way, at least in my area...

RoV

Just now, Rat of Vengence said:

Lot's of people don't seem to see it that way, at least in my area...

RoV

You pay for the ships just like everyone else but because you didn't choose the ships we wanted you to we are going to penalize you. How does that sound fair?

15 minutes ago, ozmodon said:

You pay for the ships just like everyone else but because you didn't choose the ships we wanted you to we are going to penalize you. How does that sound fair?

Except you don't, since large ships have a discount.

I think fat han was the big reason they did half points on large ships. He was a 60 point ship that was incredibly hard to kill because of the terrible way 3po paired with the MF title. So you might do 12 damage to a 60 point ship and get nothing to show for it.

Nowadays you have many ships that cost a fraction of that price that are just as hard to kill if not harder, and they don't get half points.

Not to mention that any large ships without turrets, barrel roll, or boost, are quite easy to get half damage on.

I don't think hit points are the answer, as almost all the hardest to kill ships don't have a ton of hit points. Maybe any ship that's 30+ (number could go either way, I'd say 24 minimum) points after upgrades. Would give an extra incentive to swarms again. Also as others have mentioned there would need to be some kind of rule for regen ships, though I'm not sure the best way to do it. Might be another reason to put a cap on how many times you can regen in a game.

44 minutes ago, ozmodon said:

You pay for the ships just like everyone else but because you didn't choose the ships we wanted you to we are going to penalize you. How does that sound fair?

That doesn't even make any sense.

1 hour ago, ozmodon said:

The half damage counts as anything on the large ships is B.S. to begin with. All that rule really says is, Don't take large ships to tournaments

No, the rule says "Don't take a large ship with the plan to cheese your opponent through point wins."

And large base ships have been winning plenty in spite of the rule being in place (including this one little event in Minnesota back in May that you might have heard of?), so if it really was about forcing people not to play large ships, it seems to be failing miserably.

6 hours ago, markcsoul said:

I think fat han was the big reason they did half points on large ships. He was a 60 point ship that was incredibly hard to kill because of the terrible way 3po paired with the MF title. So you might do 12 damage to a 60 point ship and get nothing to show for it.

Nowadays you have many ships that cost a fraction of that price that are just as hard to kill if not harder, and they don't get half points.

Not to mention that any large ships without turrets, barrel roll, or boost, are quite easy to get half damage on.

I don't think hit points are the answer, as almost all the hardest to kill ships don't have a ton of hit points. Maybe any ship that's 30+ (number could go either way, I'd say 24 minimum) points after upgrades. Would give an extra incentive to swarms again. Also as others have mentioned there would need to be some kind of rule for regen ships, though I'm not sure the best way to do it. Might be another reason to put a cap on how many times you can regen in a game.

Fat han clearly the big reason, and not only many ships costing a fraction are as hard to kill nowadays but many ships and configurations are able to melt that han.

IMO, that half-points issue has nothing to do with base size or hit points, and everything to do with points cost. Specifically, "points quanta."

What I mean is, every squad gives up MoV in discrete chunks, typically represented by the cost of a single ship. If any of those ships is a large base subject to the half-points rule, then it gives up MoV in two chunks; one at half-health, and another when fully dead.

When the half-health rule was implemented, large bases were the only ones that could stack 50+ points, so any squad that didn't include a fat large base would necessarily have 3 or more points quanta to give up. Given that goal, I'd say the half-points rule should extend, not to any HP-based threshold, but to any ship with a points cost above a certain threshold. The precise number of that threshold can vary, depending on the desired minimum number of points quanta.

43 minutes ago, fiesta0618 said:

IMO, that half-points issue has nothing to do with base size or hit points, and everything to do with points cost. Specifically, "points quanta."

What I mean is, every squad gives up MoV in discrete chunks, typically represented by the cost of a single ship. If any of those ships is a large base subject to the half-points rule, then it gives up MoV in two chunks; one at half-health, and another when fully dead.

Hence why at one point, the distinction between 'full win' and 'marginal win' was 12 points - the value of the cheapest ship in the game (Bandit Squadron/Academy Pilot/Binyare Pirate/"Light Scyk" Cartel Spacer)

6 hours ago, fiesta0618 said:

...
When the half-health rule was implemented, large bases were the only ones that could stack 50+ points, so any squad that didn't include a fat large base would necessarily have 3 or more points quanta to give up. Given that goal, I'd say the half-points rule should extend, not to any HP-based threshold, but to any ship with a points cost above a certain threshold. The precise number of that threshold can vary, depending on the desired minimum number of points quanta.

So true. It is also points to how those big, but cheap, large ships aren't used anymore because it is far too easy to get. It doomed the Doom Shuttle which would easily give up a ship's worth of points just killing another ship.

16 hours ago, ozmodon said:

The half damage counts as anything on the large ships is B.S. to begin with. All that rule really says is, Don't take large ships to tournaments

The last store championship I was at all of the top 4 had a large ship and 6 of the top 8 also did. The number of lists without a large ship was probably about 6 out of 28. The half points rule isn't stopping people taking large ships.

2 minutes ago, Jike said:

The last store championship I was at all of the top 4 had a large ship and 6 of the top 8 also did. The number of lists without a large ship was probably about 6 out of 28. The half points rule isn't stopping people taking large ships.

Do you happen to know how many Large ships in the top 8, and how many had Boost (Engine Upgrade)?

1 minute ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Do you happen to know how many Large ships in the top 8, and how many had Boost (Engine Upgrade)?

Off the top of my head, the top 8 had:

• 2 Dash (1 with Engine)
• 1 Dengar (no Engine)
• 1 Ghost
• 1 Firespray
• 1 Contracted Scout

Only 1 of those ships had Boost.

On 7/30/2017 at 9:30 AM, eagletsi111 said:

Most of us realize that FFG made a mistake with giving small ships so much hull and shield, which frankly means they are great Tournament ships, because of MOV.

Pfffft.

On 7/30/2017 at 5:29 PM, Slugrage said:

Any time I read "most of us", I replace it with "I" and "bad idea" with "I don't like this".

On 7/30/2017 at 5:47 PM, PremiumGoldLeaderDeluxe said:

I'd just do away with the half points rule entirely. There are enough tanky small ships now that its kind of redundant.

This would very much be the wrong way to go. What you're describing isn't a redundancy, it is a deficiency.

17 hours ago, ozmodon said:

The half damage counts as anything on the large ships is B.S. to begin with. All that rule really says is, Don't take large ships to tournaments

... I mean... Looked at what went to Worlds at all? Pretttttty sure our current champ was rocking two large base ships... And, you know, we can follow Worlds results going straight back to that particular rule change...

Opinions are great... Still plenty of room for them to be objectively wrong.

16 hours ago, Rat of Vengence said:

Lot's of people don't seem to see it that way, at least in my area...

RoV

Or, again, any tournament at any level since the rule change.

16 hours ago, ozmodon said:

You pay for the ships just like everyone else but because you didn't choose the ships we wanted you to we are going to penalize you. How does that sound fair?

... Riiiiiiiiight.

MOV is no problem if you win all your games!

I think the best solution if sticking to the"half MoV" concept is a specific FAQ list of the ships that are worth Half Pts for Half HP.

That way we don't have to over-generalise and impact future expansions, or adjust hull/shields on ships just because it does or doesn't "fit the criteria that was determined prior to its design".

A FAQ list could even have different categories:

Ships worth half MoV at 1 hull remaining: TIE Defender, etc.

Ships worth half MoV at < half hull: YT-1300, etc.

Players would still only have to divide by 2.

Players would have to know the FAQ list / TOs would have to provide it / the list could come pre-printed on score sheets.

4 hours ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

Or, again, any tournament at any level since the rule change.

Let's see, perhaps you should have bothered checking the lists...

http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=3204

Shadowcaster Spanish store Championship top 4

Dash Australia store Championship top 4

Contracted scouts Italy store Championship top 4

And that's just from the 6 most recent listed; I couldn't be bothered proving you MORE wrong.

RoV

Edit for misreading the quote. Duh! My apologies ArbitraryNerd.

Pretty sure ArbitraryNerd was agreeing with you RoV, saying lots of people in your area, and indeed every tournament everywhere, don't see large base ships as impossible to take to tournaments.

5 minutes ago, mdl0114 said:

Pretty sure ArbitraryNerd was agreeing with you RoV, saying lots of people in your area, and indeed every tournament everywhere, don't see large base ships as impossible to take to tournaments.

Ah. Damnit, now I've got to apologise and admit I got it wrong!

Thanks for pointing it out dude

RoV

No worries.

On the actual topic, I think "all ships with 9 or more hull/shields" is a better way of doing half-points. I don't mind the way it works now though, and if they completely cut out half-points I don't know that it would heavily affect the ships taken to tournaments.

3 hours ago, phild0 said:

I think the best solution if sticking to the"half MoV" concept is a specific FAQ list of the ships that are worth Half Pts for Half HP.

That way we don't have to over-generalise and impact future expansions, or adjust hull/shields on ships just because it does or doesn't "fit the criteria that was determined prior to its design".

A FAQ list could even have different categories:

Ships worth half MoV at 1 hull remaining: TIE Defender, etc.

Ships worth half MoV at < half hull: YT-1300, etc.

Players would still only have to divide by 2.

Players would have to know the FAQ list / TOs would have to provide it / the list could come pre-printed on score sheets.

An interesting thing there. You're only looking at HULL. It's generally a lot harder to get damage cards on a ship > half the hull value than it is to just plink off all the shields. Using the hull Criteria a Lambda would need to have 3 damage cards on it to award half it's points where currently it just can't have any shields on it and is worth half its points.

On 8/1/2017 at 5:24 PM, StevenO said:

An interesting thing there. You're only looking at HULL. It's generally a lot harder to get damage cards on a ship > half the hull value than it is to just plink off all the shields. Using the hull Criteria a Lambda would need to have 3 damage cards on it to award half it's points where currently it just can't have any shields on it and is worth half its points.

Well when using hull instead of all hit points you have to take into consideration two things. The first is regenerating shields, depending on an attack or a last turn could mean the diffrence between 1/2 MOV or no points. The only reason this hasn't came up is because large ships don't have that much in regeneration. The closest thing is Chewbacca <crew> which is an extra 2 hit points. R2-D2 <crew> give 1 maybe (assuming it doesn't flip over a direct hit).

Another thing to consider is effects that go through shields. My proposal for small ships rounded down, large ships rounded up (TIE Interceptor 1 hull left, Lambda Shuttle 3 hull left) is that a lucky proton bomb or AHM hit can instantly snag half the ships points. Back to regeneration with the exception of that one unique <astromech> upgrade there is no way of discarding damage cards after they have been dealt.