Most of us realize that FFG made a mistake with giving small ships so much hull and shield, which frankly means they are great Tournament ships, because of MOV.

We know that large ships that suffer half damage count as Half points at the end of the game, but what if FFG changed the rule so that Small ships with 9 or more hit point (Hull+Shield) combined gave you half points at the end of the game. This is a simple fix and affects only the small ships with lots of hull, not X-wings or Ties.

Do we think that would help balance the game a bit more?

I do.

P.S. - I posted this because FFG's search option cannot find the other message I replied to.

Thanks,

Definition and Citation needed for "most of us" and "bad idea"

Not like they can run even nearly as fast as large bases especially with EU

or that their dials are nearly as good

Or their defense without Regen for that matter

Probably.

Then again most of those ships should have been medium bases, too.

Ace-lovers want to be the only ones to have point fortresses that can run away at the end of a match and pray for time. I get it.

Now that we do have 9+ point small ships, its time to do away with the half point rule on large bases and put Han Solo back to work. MHGA, muff'kers!

I don't really get the 9 hp cut off. Miranda regens to 5/9 or more anyway. Is it just because of b-wings and y-wings? What if you put a Hull upgrade on Horton Salm? Should he then give up half points too? How about the U-wing? It has only 8 hp, should it not be giving up half points?

I agree that the current scoring system rewards running away and going to time, particularly with small base ships worth a lot of points. I do not agree with "Big based ships and small bases that have 9 or more combined Hull and shields should give half points."

When talking half points, it should probably be all ships or no ships, and a separate clause needed for the regen-capable.

7 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Definition and Citation needed for "most of us" and "bad idea"

Any time I read "most of us", I replace it with "I" and "bad idea" with "I don't like this".

But I'm sure most of us realize that it was a bad idea that I posted this.

I say change everything to half hull points (rounded down for small ships, up for large ships) remaining = half points.

I'd just do away with the half points rule entirely. There are enough tanky small ships now that its kind of redundant.

All or none when it comes to half points for half "dead" regardless of ship size or "hitpoints."

Throwing the rule out there as a major nerf to large ships sure did succeed in driving many of them from the tournament stage. I've also thought it was pretty biased when a hull or shield upgrade would count toward that half but other things that provide additional defense are completely ignored. If you want to bring that mess to small bases as well then it should apply to all ships or are you telling me that a "9 hitpoint ship" that has 1 or 0 agility is really that much harder to kill than a 6 hitpoint ship that has 3 agility and often has an Evade token as well?

Never been a fan of the half point rule.

5 minutes ago, StevenO said:

All or none when it comes to half points for half "dead" regardless of ship size or "hitpoints."

Throwing the rule out there as a major nerf to large ships sure did succeed in driving many of them from the tournament stage. I've also thought it was pretty biased when a hull or shield upgrade would count toward that half but other things that provide additional defense are completely ignored. If you want to bring that mess to small bases as well then it should apply to all ships or are you telling me that a "9 hitpoint ship" that has 1 or 0 agility is really that much harder to kill than a 6 hitpoint ship that has 3 agility and often has an Evade token as well?

Never been a fan of the half point rule.

Well, I guess Agility is totally irrelevant in the Nym meta. Only Health can save you!

It doesn't go far enough. It's also arbitrary, you deserve 24 points for reducing Fenn to 1 health. This is a problem with more ships than just the ARC, Miranda, and Auzituck.

Partial point scoring for everything.

Regenerated health should not regenerate MoV. Once 5 damage has been done to regen Corran or whatever, you should get your 48 points. Then the lazy player with his ship that has died once over and yet still has full health has to actually play the game and chase you.

And then MoV will be fixed and it will no longer be the, "Democracy is terrible, but it's the least terrible option" option.

14 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Definition and Citation needed for "most of us" and "bad idea"

Not like they can run even nearly as fast as large bases especially with EU

or that their dials are nearly as good

Or their defense without Regen for that matter

Pretty much all of this.

RoV

8 hours ago, AEIllingworth said:

I don't really get the 9 hp cut off.

Because Wave 11 has generated a tsunami of saltiness with both Auzituck and Scurrg having 9 and 10 hp respectively.

12 minutes ago, spacelion said:

Because Wave 11 has generated a tsunami of saltiness with both Auzituck and Scurrg having 9 and 10 hp respectively.

And B-Wing and Y-Wing are 8 and don't deserve the nerf. 9 is perfectly good number for this as it's when the problematic ones start.

I think this should be changed to all ships with 9+ total hit points not just small.
This would allow for a revival of the Aggressors, that got hit the most by the MOV change.
They should be unnerfed because for them the nerf was hardly justifiable.

Why try to add extra complications? Keep it simple. If you want to add half points to small-based ships as well (which I think might be a decent change) just make it all ships. Creating artificial cut-offs just causes issues, such as the one identified here with high-health small ships. What happens when we get a really tough 8HP ship?

3 hours ago, Chibi-Nya said:

And B-Wing and Y-Wing are 8 and don't deserve the nerf. 9 is perfectly good number for this as it's when the problematic ones start.

...for the ships currently existing, which will inevitably change next wave, when a tanky 8-health regen ship comes out...

Just remove the rule, i do not think it was a well thought rule.

I have seen enough small ships fortressing and running away once they already dealt half damage to the big ship counterpart for the victory.

Trying to make it to 9 health seems a little arbitrary to me. Having it be to all ships also rewards high agility and token stacking because the less you are dealt damage the less points you give.

So for me the better solution is just to remove the rule, we have enough tools now to fight fat turrets and token stacking. Not that i think they would ever do that but for me is the cleanest and best way to keep going.

Saltiness incoming:
This comparison bothers me.. Pretty soon we'll have 15 hull/shield Rebel and Scum small-base ships and Imperials will get another 4-5 hull, 0-1 shield FO Bomber that can't touch Nym or Miranda. FFG will be asking, "How did 40k reclaim its spot so quickly?"

And before you say it, if the 3 agility mattered we'd see IG on the table more...

should just be a general rule to begin with, for all ships.

Soontir ran away with 1 hp? You still get 18pts for him.
Poe got beaten to 1hull but got away from the final blow before the game ended? Long as he didnt get ALL his shields back, you still got 20ish depending on the build.
Did a damage card to Nym? Regardless of whether you finished him or not, you get 20ish points.

Also yes the 3 agility matters. Know why we dont see it on the table? Because its a 50pt ship when outfitted so it can actually do something and unless its paired with another its a horrible ship and greatly overcosted (the title should be 6pts and the ship be 30pts base). Meanwhile, Nym is 40pts and has no such mandatory synergy with another ship and he can be oufitted many many ways, both lower than 40 and higher than 40pts.

10 hours ago, tsondaboy said:

I think this should be changed to all ships with 9+ total hit points not just small.
This would allow for a revival of the Aggressors, that got hit the most by the MOV change.
They should be unnerfed because for them the nerf was hardly justifiable.

It was also be a relative boost to the poor U-wing. ("Half-points for 9-HP+ ships" is the only half-point rules that doesn't suck a golf ball through a garden hose.)

18 hours ago, SaltMaster 5000 said:

It doesn't go far enough. It's also arbitrary, you deserve 24 points for reducing Fenn to 1 health. This is a problem with more ships than just the ARC, Miranda, and Auzituck.

Partial point scoring for everything.

Regenerated health should not regenerate MoV. Once 5 damage has been done to regen Corran or whatever, you should get your 48 points. Then the lazy player with his ship that has died once over and yet still has full health has to actually play the game and chase you.

And then MoV will be fixed and it will no longer be the, "Democracy is terrible, but it's the least terrible option" option.

If you're going to penalize Regen then you should also penalize everything else that negates dice before they can even turn into damage.

Sorry to break it to you but Poe at 3 shields but with a damage card is still dangerous no matter if you had all of those shields gone at one point or not. Shield regen is a slow climb out of "half damage" if you get in too far.

1 hour ago, StevenO said:

If you're going to penalize Regen then you should also penalize everything else that negates dice before they can even turn into damage.

Sorry to break it to you but Poe at 3 shields but with a damage card is still dangerous no matter if you had all of those shields gone at one point or not. Shield regen is a slow climb out of "half damage" if you get in too far.

Although there's always the silly Tel Travura build that can completely explode and then get back above half, but that's so specific and unlikely it's not an issue.

I think we're all in agreement that the current partial points clause is only a partial fix to the issue, but I don't think a 9-health cutoff is correct.

I would, for instance, argue that the Lambda doesn't need the half-health rule to be fair (in part because it would still be a space cow).

Would it be fair to just have a list of "these ships yield half points at half health"? A bit of a pain, but... it would have the needed granularity to catch things like Miranda running away forever and ****.

Or people could just kill the ships...

7 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

It was also be a relative boost to the poor U-wing. ("Half-points for 9-HP+ ships" is the only half-point rules that doesn't suck a golf ball through a garden hose.)

Yes and the poor U-Wing as well.
I would be really happy to see FFG change the MOV rule to apply to all 9-HP+ ships.
If the wanted they could even add a clause for the regenerating ships easily.

p.7
"In addition, each player receives half the total squad point value (including upgrade cards), rounded down, of each enemy ship with a combined total hull and shield value of 9 or above (including any Hull or Shield Upgrades) that was reduced to half or below. They also receive half the total squad point value (including upgrade cards), of each enemy ship with shield regenerating abilities, whose Hull value (including any Hull Upgrades) was reduced to half or below. "