I think it could be that the turret/bomb strategy is weaker against non-Rebels lists than the Rebels are against the turret/bomb strategies.

2 hours ago, SOTL said:

Hey, there is balance; there are two TIE fighters in the top five squads. Fantastic; FFG design strategies and play-tesing work!

.....salt to taste.

12 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

Hey, there is balance; there are two TIE fighters in the top five squads. Fantastic; FFG design strategies and play-tesing work!

.....salt to taste.

And ironically, it might be Integrated Astromech that made the X-Wing OP.

9 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Unless Biggs prevents shots at anyone else. Then it becomes essentially the same as Palp for Biggs, at a small cost of lower offense.

The list is built for maximal defense, so it will gladly sacrifice an offense focus for that goal.

That's the point he made - Lowhhrick gives you perfect information on when to use the evade. Yes it costs the action, but that action is very hard to prevent because you have to shoot Biggs. Exceptions are flechette torpedoes (which don't work), thermal detonators and e.g. Asajj. So highly specific.

Which brings us back to another point that was made before:

you can go TLT,

you can go bombs,

or you can go home

edit: the full list, I believe, of what can stress Lowhhrick:

Thermal Detonators, Mara Jade, Rebel Captive (easily avoided, shoot first with Biggs), Tactician (if paired with TL ordnance), Kylo's shuttle (but can be moved...), 4-LOM (Pilot), Asajj, Chopper (Pilot)

so you can argue for Tactician and Asajj. Bombs means only certain lists can compete.

But Mara Jade, 4Lom and chopper are no competitive options.

Or block it, or force it onto an asteroid. Stress is not the only thing that prevents actions.

I'd like to see a video of this list being played, having to fly in a tight formation is such a disadvantage against lists that do not have to fly in formation.

EDIT: This list also give Baze Malbus a niche use.

9 minutes ago, codegnave said:

Or block it, or force it onto an asteroid. Stress is not the only thing that prevents actions.

I'd like to see a video of this list being played, having to fly in a tight formation is such a disadvantage against lists that do not have to fly in formation.

EDIT: This list also give Baze Malbus a niche use.

There are plenty to be found. Check out RadioTCX on Twitch...they have a long stream from a storm championship where it's flown a couple times.

You're not going to force this list into the rocks. It can choose it's engagement. You can block it, but that's not going to negatively impact it's damage distribution other than Lowhhrick's ability. Even then, you have the blocker probably facing a pile of range 1 shots, unmodified or not.

23 minutes ago, gennataos said:

There are plenty to be found. Check out RadioTCX on Twitch...they have a long stream from a storm championship where it's flown a couple times.

You're not going to force this list into the rocks. It can choose it's engagement. You can block it, but that's not going to negatively impact it's damage distribution other than Lowhhrick's ability. Even then, you have the blocker probably facing a pile of range 1 shots, unmodified or not.

Thanks!

And for sure, I don't mean to imply anything about the balance of this list, I don't know enough for that, I was rebutting the idea that Lowhrick's ability is 'free'.

9 minutes ago, codegnave said:

Thanks!

And for sure, I don't mean to imply anything about the balance of this list, I don't know enough for that, I was rebutting the idea that Lowhrick's ability is 'free'.

Yeah, it's not free. In my Rex/Biggs-free variants, I've definitely lost that reinforce action for Lowhhrick!

1 hour ago, codegnave said:

Or block it, or force it onto an asteroid. Stress is not the only thing that prevents actions.

Blocking is an option, definitely. But typically Lohwwrick and Biggs will be in the back due to PS, so your blocker will get hit by at least two 4dice attacks. So in that regard I'd first look for other options (Stress). Now that I've seen how limited these options are I'd say that a dedicated blocker might be worth some consideration.

Then again, 12pt just to prevent an action on Lowhhrick - likely just once! - sounds silly to me. So what other kind of blocker are you thinking of?

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

Blocking is an option, definitely. But typically Lohwwrick and Biggs will be in the back due to PS, so your blocker will get hit by at least two 4dice attacks. So in that regard I'd first look for other options (Stress). Now that I've seen how limited these options are I'd say that a dedicated blocker might be worth some consideration.

Then again, 12pt just to prevent an action on Lowhhrick - likely just once! - sounds silly to me. So what other kind of blocker are you thinking of?

I'll be checking out videos of the list in action later today, but in the meantime I would ask, wouldn't a block in that fashion tar up several of the ships at once?

But if I am going to have ship for blocking(and its not a 'i dont have enough points for a real ship so I may as well put a TIE/Z/Scyk in there') I'd like something that works off of blocking, so I would put AP Lasers or Ion Projector on cheap large base. I like a U-Wing with Hera on board, its fun lol

I can't really speak to competitive level play to much lol

13 minutes ago, codegnave said:

I'll be checking out videos of the list in action later today, but in the meantime I would ask, wouldn't a block in that fashion tar up several of the ships at once?

But if I am going to have ship for blocking(and its not a 'i dont have enough points for a real ship so I may as well put a TIE/Z/Scyk in there') I'd like something that works off of blocking, so I would put AP Lasers or Ion Projector on cheap large base. I like a U-Wing with Hera on board, its fun lol

I can't really speak to competitive level play to much lol

The problem is this:
Fair Ship Rebels doesn't really need actions, with the exception of Low. The focuses help, but the really detriment to you, as the blocker, is you are now facing three 4-dice primaries and a single 3-dice primary, Jess (and possibly Low) having re-rolls and Rex applying Suppressive Fire. So sure, block one round and temporarily gum up the formation. Then lose a ship. And another. And not push any real damage through.

Watch the videos and let me know what you think.

Let's list the things that **** with Furship hard:

Ahsoka EMP

TIE/D Tractor

TIE/D Ion

Ion Turrets

Bomblet Generator

Minefield Mapper

High PS arc Dodgers

Ruthlessness

Assault Missiles

Cluster Mines

Rigged Cargo Chute

TLT

With all these tools, if you can't get creative, you're the problem, not the list. Biggs+3 Ships is a list as old as W3 Meta. Sure you've learned to counter it by now?

2 hours ago, Darth Ruin said:

Let's list the things that **** with Furship hard:

Ahsoka EMP

TIE/D Tractor

TIE/D Ion

Ion Turrets

Bomblet Generator

Minefield Mapper

High PS arc Dodgers

Ruthlessness

Assault Missiles

Cluster Mines

Rigged Cargo Chute

TLT

With all these tools, if you can't get creative, you're the problem, not the list. Biggs+3 Ships is a list as old as W3 Meta. Sure you've learned to counter it by now?

I'd say that previous versions could be countered by outflying it and that there were numerous squads that could handle Biggs without needing specific tools to deal with the list. Your list of of solutions is comprehensive and there are things in there that are just good cards against anything period (some are useless outside of that kind of matchup, especially when the meta is heavy on independent two ship lists), but they highlight a major concern people have and that the game is trending more towards a card game where maneuver is less important and matchups are more of a factor than player skill.

15 hours ago, SOTL said:

Scurrg and K-Wing unnamed?!

I nominate 'Big Boned'. (Because, you see, while they LOOK incredibly fat - they aren't large at all, as you can plainly see by their small bases. They are just big boned.) Or, heck, just cut to the chase and call it the Eric Cartman list. Captain Cartman? Captain Kartman?

Shara Bey (28)
Adaptability (0)
Flechette Torpedoes (2)
Weapons Engineer (3)
M9-G8 (3)
Guidance Chips (0)
Alliance Overhaul (0)

Tala Squadron Pilot (13)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Guidance Chips (0)

Tala Squadron Pilot (13)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Guidance Chips (0)

Tala Squadron Pilot (13)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Guidance Chips (0)

Tala Squadron Pilot (13)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

This seems really good against the list. Shara can adaptability to block the 5s if she has initiative, or up to 7 if she doesn't. She can target lock 2 ships--Lowrie and one other. Flechettes at one target, and between 16-20 dice worth of cruise missiles with TL, focus, and chips at Lowhhrick. That oughtta do the trick.

That TL sitting on Lowhhrick makes his offense even worse too.

Haven't read the thread but it should have been called LowhhRisky Biggsness, has anyone said that yet?

over 10,000 hours in MSpaint

3 hours ago, xanderf said:

Scurrg and K-Wing unnamed?!

I nominate 'Big Boned'. (Because, you see, while they LOOK incredibly fat - they aren't large at all, as you can plainly see by their small bases. They are just big boned.) Or, heck, just cut to the chase and call it the Eric Cartman list. Captain Cartman? Captain Kartman?

Its Nym and Miranda. I like "My D@mn Rain". Its an anagram for Nym Miranda and they make bombs rain.

7 hours ago, Sekac said:

This seems really good against the list. Shara can adaptability to block the 5s if she has initiative, or up to 7 if she doesn't. She can target lock 2 ships--Lowrie and one other. Flechettes at one target, and between 16-20 dice worth of cruise missiles with TL, focus, and chips at Lowhhrick. That oughtta do the trick.

As an interesting question, what if Shara has Biggs and something else Target Locked and you want to fire a Missile/Torp? You still have to choose Biggs, right?

Or if for example Quickdraw with Targeting Synchronizer got a lock on Biggs, but Vader has a TL on Lowhirrick, does he have to fire his missile at Biggs, because he meets the TL requirement?

When you choose the weapon you are using if you're allowed to shoot at Biggs you have to shoot at Biggs.

On 8/3/2017 at 3:55 AM, SOTL said:

On meta-wing although the Rebels are doing well it's Triple Jumps that are SMASHING IT whenever they get played.

http://meta-wing.com/ship_combos?ranking_start=2017-07-13&ranking_end=2017-08-03&large_tournament_multiplier=true&widespread_use_multiplier=true&use_ranking_data=all&tournament_type=&

Fair Ship Rebels looks like it's better than Paratanni but it's interesting that the Thane version continues to outperform the Lowhhrick version, and the Triple Jumps percentile score is super-strong.

I'm probably switching to triple Scouts at the weekend.

look at the trip jump archetype. They've got win loss rates broken down by list. They've faced fair ship 2.0 twice, and lost twice. Not statistically significant, but it looks like jumps are winning because they've got good matchups against most everything else.

9 minutes ago, jagsba said:

look at the trip jump archetype. They've got win loss rates broken down by list. They've faced fair ship 2.0 twice, and lost twice. Not statistically significant, but it looks like jumps are winning because they've got good matchups against most everything else.

Nvm, I just saw it. Yeah that would be a decent read of it, I think. The Jumpmasters will struggle to punch through with their torpedoes, then the turrets are so weak that FSR can probably soak it up.

The bombing version may do better.

Thanks for pointing out the matchup results, I'd never seen that before. Either I didn't scroll down enough or it's a recent addition...

On 8/3/2017 at 4:02 AM, SOTL said:

16 hours ago, xanderf said:

Scurrg and K-Wing unnamed?!

I nominate 'Big Boned'. (Because, you see, while they LOOK incredibly fat - they aren't large at all, as you can plainly see by their small bases. They are just big boned.) Or, heck, just cut to the chase and call it the Eric Cartman list. Captain Cartman? Captain Kartman?

I'd mostly call it Cheesypoofs or Weightgain5k, mostly.

20 hours ago, Darth Ruin said:

TIE/D Ion

Ion Turrets

You force a 1 straight for the list, potentially allowing you to get around it. But it doesn't cause any bumps or breaks the formation because the ion is known when the dials are set.

2 hours ago, jagsba said:

look at the trip jump archetype. They've got win loss rates broken down by list. They've faced fair ship 2.0 twice, and lost twice. Not statistically significant, but it looks like jumps are winning because they've got good matchups against most everything else.

Looks like those two matches might be the same two people playing in swiss and the top cut at Linebreakers store champ. Interesting, but I wouldn't read tooo much into it.

15 minutes ago, WAC47 said:

Looks like those two matches might be the same two people playing in swiss and the top cut at Linebreakers store champ. Interesting, but I wouldn't read tooo much into it.

Yup, that's why I said it may not be significant. But @SOTL was thinking the jumps were curb stomping fair ship and the breakdown shows that we can't say from the current results.

2 hours ago, SOTL said:

Nvm, I just saw it. Yeah that would be a decent read of it, I think. The Jumpmasters will struggle to punch through with their torpedoes, then the turrets are so weak that FSR can probably soak it up.

I haven't faced 2.0 yet, but the jump alpha is if anything weaker than the cruise imp ace alpha, which we've seen does very little. I also spent a lot of time pre-worlds practicing the FSR 1.0 vs. jumps match and can say it's not a good matchup for the jumps if the FSR player knows what they're doing.