Decklists Phoenix vs Crab 7-27-17.pdf

I only got as far as the thumbnail, but I enjoyed everything prior to that!

Woo, Go Crab.

You guys mention you aren't sure why Crab didn't use Assassination on the Phoenix Champ in round 1, but Assassination can't target guys that cost more than 2 fate.

A question on the Crab's deck construction, is there a reason you aren't running Miya Mystic, Eager Scout, Hiruma Yojimbo, Rebuild, or Rout?

Also, I kind of feel Jade Tetsubo is too expensive for what it does.

2 hours ago, shineyorkboy said:

Woo, Go Crab.

You guys mention you aren't sure why Crab didn't use Assassination on the Phoenix Champ in round 1, but Assassination can't target guys that cost more than 2 fate.

A question on the Crab's deck construction, is there a reason you aren't running Miya Mystic, Eager Scout, Hiruma Yojimbo, Rebuild, or Rout?

Also, I kind of feel Jade Tetsubo is too expensive for what it does.

The idea was to use Assassination to kill the little guy and then use Way of the Crab to auto-kill the champ. Would prevent a province kill and 3 rings. But I didn't have the assassination in my opening hand. Otherwise there would be no reason to put a fate on the Kaiu Envoy.

I personally view Miya Mystic and Rout as bad value cards. Son I dont put them in decks if I can help it. Jade Testubo is there for S&G. Wanted to try it once. It also makes sense for what the deck is trying to do which is clear boards.

Eager scout is trash. There's really no way that guy enters any of my decks.

3 hours ago, kiramode said:

Eager scout is trash. There's really no way that guy enters any of my decks.

Oh there's a way..........

5 hours ago, kiramode said:

The idea was to use Assassination to kill the little guy and then use Way of the Crab to auto-kill the champ. Would prevent a province kill and 3 rings. But I didn't have the assassination in my opening hand. Otherwise there would be no reason to put a fate on the Kaiu Envoy.

I personally view Miya Mystic and Rout as bad value cards. Son I dont put them in decks if I can help it. Jade Testubo is there for S&G. Wanted to try it once. It also makes sense for what the deck is trying to do which is clear boards.

Eager scout is trash. There's really no way that guy enters any of my decks.

I think it's funny how much I don't agree with a lot of your statements here based on my own gameplay experience.

Miya Mystic I will grant, it's a utility card that doesn't cost your ally like Let Go so of course it's a bit subpar. Rout, on the otherhand, has been bonkers in my games, single handedly winning key conflicts for a single fate. Move home effects are among the best in the game. It doesn't matter as much if they can use their guy in a later conflict when the ideal conflict for them to be used in is the current one. It's also one of the best control options in the game that has basically zero answers to it.

Eager Scout is also phenomenal. For 0, you not only get great sacrifice fodder but a great character advantage threat. If you attack with an eager scout they have to now either not defend, lose 1 honor and risk you breaking with Banzai!, or defend and essentially you trade bowing your 0 cost 0/0/0 guy for one of their meaningful guys. The card is just pure value. You can also slap a fate on him to set up Way of the Crab the next turn going first if they only have one impactful character left, which happens often enough to warrant stating. Unless you abandon the sacrifice theme altogether, I don't see this guy leaving Crab decks anytime soon.

I guess it all depends on how you are building your deck. I can see all the criticisms, but I'm surprised you don't like Rout. I felt like in Crab (in my limited experience) it was a nice way to make use of my high military in a political challenge considering I have so many ways to ready my dudes potentially.

I think Rout is really good if used in a situation where the Routed character can't contribute their main skill. Too often I see it get used in a way where the routed characger is still doing stuff later in the turn. I also dont like that it costs a resource. I feel like there's many more cards I would rather play for 1. Just a preference.

4 hours ago, I Fight Dragons said:

Eager Scout is also phenomenal. For 0, you not only get great sacrifice fodder but a great character advantage threat. If you attack with an eager scout they have to now either not defend, lose 1 honor and risk you breaking with Banzai!, or defend and essentially you trade bowing your 0 cost 0/0/0 guy for one of their meaningful guys. The card is just pure value. You can also slap a fate on him to set up Way of the Crab the next turn going first if they only have one impactful character left, which happens often enough to warrant stating. Unless you abandon the sacrifice theme altogether, I don't see this guy leaving Crab decks anytime soon.

Yeah Eager Scout is cool but if you play him 3 of together with holdings you can often flip into nothing - few characters for zero and 1 fate and couple buildings, which is not enough to stop the opponent. Lion gets away with this because their 1 drops tend to be higher statted than Crabs and also they can flip 5+ cards a turn.

I liked eager scout in the beginning but more and more I flip into two of them and pyre when I really need some board presence, which is game losing.

13 minutes ago, BordOne said:

Yeah Eager Scout is cool but if you play him 3 of together with holdings you can often flip into nothing - few characters for zero and 1 fate and couple buildings, which is not enough to stop the opponent. Lion gets away with this because their 1 drops tend to be higher statted than Crabs and also they can flip 5+ cards a turn.

I liked eager scout in the beginning but more and more I flip into two of them and pyre when I really need some board presence, which is game losing.

You just shore up with with Crab's stellar Conflict characters. Any faction can brick a flop, and crab are certainly more susceptible to it, but they make up for it with some of the better end Dynasty characters and the ability to maintain a board state better than any other faction.

2 hours ago, I Fight Dragons said:

You just shore up with with Crab's stellar Conflict characters. Any faction can brick a flop, and crab are certainly more susceptible to it, but they make up for it with some of the better end Dynasty characters and the ability to maintain a board state better than any other faction.

No faction can bring a flop as big as Crab though and Stoic gunso is not enough to make up for it. Scout is usually ok but sometimes disastrous, we will see how much he will be played. I play one copy of it and so far I don't complain about the lack of sacrifice outlets.

Gunso is 2 for 5 skill which is one of the best bang for buck trades right now, and Hiruma Ambusher is fantastic with decent stats. I'd sooner cut Hida Guardian over the Scout do to her sometimes clunky requirements. We'll see how things go when the full card-pool has settled for a couple months.

its funny seeing people talk about bricking a flop, either you have forgotten or have never played Old5R where you ran about 16~19 Holdings and Events in your deck, and around 21 Personalities, and your Provinces got blown up so you may only end up seeing 1~2 cards a turn.

1 hour ago, I Fight Dragons said:

Gunso is 2 for 5 skill which is one of the best bang for buck trades right now, and Hiruma Ambusher is fantastic with decent stats. I'd sooner cut Hida Guardian over the Scout do to her sometimes clunky requirements. We'll see how things go when the full card-pool has settled for a couple months.

Gunso is good, still won't save you with the board of two eager scouts and sometimes random 1 drop. Hida guardian is not fantastic either but sometimes can be useful, and is much better in the situation when you flip into a lot of holdings. Ambusher is ok, definitely not "fantastic", at least from my experience; just a "fair" card(might be good in phoenix matchup).

49 minutes ago, Cambeul no Oni said:

its funny seeing people talk about bricking a flop, either you have forgotten or have never played Old5R where you ran about 16~19 Holdings and Events in your deck, and around 21 Personalities, and your Provinces got blown up so you may only end up seeing 1~2 cards a turn.

Indeed I didn't play Old5R, but I don't understand the premise of your post. So because some mechanics sucked in the other game we are supposed to ignore completly how the new one plays out? Playing 3x Eager scout greatly increases the chances of you not having any presence for the turn, no matter if you flip 2 cards like in the "old days" or 4 cards as you do now.

26 minutes ago, BordOne said:

Indeed I didn't play Old5R, but I don't understand the premise of your post. So because some mechanics sucked in the other game we are supposed to ignore completly how the new one plays out? Playing 3x Eager scout greatly increases the chances of you not having any presence for the turn, no matter if you flip 2 cards like in the "old days" or 4 cards as you do now.

I played the old5R for 8~10 years or so, and really it was not that bad most of the time, of course both players had to deal with it.

Its the same as in say A Game of Thrones, and eventually L5R too, how many Limited Cards do I play in my deck, and what happens if I have 5 Limite Cards in my hand that I cannot play.

But that is where you deck building comes into play, its the balance between how many 0~5 Cost Characters and Holdings you play, maybe 3 Eager Scouts is too much, maybe 2 is fine.

Are you playing a deck around the sacrifice mechanic? do you always want to sacrifice a 2 Cost guy? Are you keeping Holdings in play every turn or are you pitching at end of turn to cycle new cards? How often, or what are the odds that you get all three Eager Scouts and maybe a Funeral Pyre show up in your Provinces?

I can totally see after the first Cycle or two and Deluxe box that this guy will be cut from your deck, but I can also see a deck where he will be amazing, maybe a High Cost deck.

47 minutes ago, Cambeul no Oni said:

Are you playing a deck around the sacrifice mechanic? do you always want to sacrifice a 2 Cost guy? Are you keeping Holdings in play every turn or are you pitching at end of turn to cycle new cards? How often, or what are the odds that you get all three Eager Scouts and maybe a Funeral Pyre show up in your Provinces?

I always prefer to sacrifice a 2 cost bowed guy with no fate than a free 0/0 that takes my province slot. That being said if you flip Eager together with bigger characters he is better.

It depends on the situation on the board. I often decide to keep the pyre.

The odds of flipping two holdings and two 1/0 costers are not that low.

Eager scouts power level comes down to deck consistency. If there will be a deck that is not so thight on province slots I can see him being a staple there. I can even see him being played out of the core. But is he "phenomenal"? I don't think so

10 hours ago, BordOne said:

I always prefer to sacrifice a 2 cost bowed guy with no fate than a free 0/0 that takes my province slot. That being said if you flip Eager together with bigger characters he is better.

It depends on the situation on the board. I often decide to keep the pyre.

The odds of flipping two holdings and two 1/0 costers are not that low.

Eager scouts power level comes down to deck consistency. If there will be a deck that is not so thight on province slots I can see him being a staple there. I can even see him being played out of the core. But is he "phenomenal"? I don't think so

The reason Eager Scout isn't here is that there's less sacrifice in the deck than you'd think. Way of The Crab and and Stoic Gunso are you only sacrifice effects that really need to be used proactively. Funeral Pyre is something that you always use at the end of the turn and just burn any guy who has no fate left to get a card. The Witch Hunter is something that you use after you already made your attack with your other guys. There's always going to be some guy that is bowed and has no fate. They are the fodder. You also want to have both the Fortifications and the Funeral Pyre if you can, so all weenies are pretty dangerous to have sitting in the other slots. At least the Guardsmen and Otomo Courtier provide some value on their own.

I don't see many situations where you only have 3 Eager Scouts and nothing else on board. Crab more than any other clan want to keep a few characters on board from turn to turn do to how much more clean their gameplay becomes when they have more guys than their opponent and because they do have that higher chance to brick a flop than other clans. Having characters kept from the previous turn makes these subpar flops way less damaging and as I said before, you can supplement with Crab's pretty decent conflict characters as needed. I also usually aggressively go after void and earth to put hand and character pressure on my opponent as I build my own board. This gives you the flexibility to Way of the Crab first action in Dynasty if you need to. Ideally with Crab you have just enough guys leaving as you have sacrifice effects like funeral pyre or witch hunter and everyone else stays in play. They have nice extra fate generation in both Shuichi and Kaiu Envoy that allows them to more easilly purchase characters with fate on them. Reprieve also helps this a lot, allowing you to flexibly keep guys around with no fate.

So unless you flip 3 eager scouts and a holding turn 1, I don't really see the issue of only having 3 scouts and nothing else on board being particularly common. If you mulligan into that it's either 1 in 1000 games or you probably didn't mulligan properly. Just my two cents, though. I could be hilariously wrong.

5 minutes ago, kiramode said:

The reason Eager Scout isn't here is that there's less sacrifice in the deck than you'd think. Way of The Crab and and Stoic Gunso are you only sacrifice effects that really need to be used proactively. Funeral Pyre is something that you always use at the end of the turn and just burn any guy who has no fate left to get a card. The Witch Hunter is something that you use after you already made your attack with your other guys. There's always going to be some guy that is bowed and has no fate. They are the fodder. You also want to have both the Fortifications and the Funeral Pyre if you can, so all weenies are pretty dangerous to have sitting in the other slots. At least the Guardsmen and Otomo Courtier provide some value on their own.

I personally think Borderlands Fortifications is actually kind of a bad card out of the core set. I don't want to keep two holdings around from turn to turn, and it's usefulness is niche enough that I wouldn't choose to keep it over a Funeral Pyre. I've also already argued how the scout it value, and unlike the courtier and guardsman, he doesn't cost you anything. You also can't Way of the Crab a neutral character which matters often enough to care about.

19 hours ago, kiramode said:

I think Rout is really good if used in a situation where the Routed character can't contribute their main skill. Too often I see it get used in a way where the routed characger is still doing stuff later in the turn. I also dont like that it costs a resource. I feel like there's many more cards I would rather play for 1. Just a preference.

I was rarely attacking with a political challenge so when I routed them maybe they got to use their stats sub optimally in a military challenge at best if there is a challenge left for them. It did feel good against the Crane and even Lion. I suspect it will be good against Scorpion. Admittedly it was less good against Dragon. I did have to time it properly to get the maximum effect. I suspect the Phoenix will be the same way. I have not tried a game against them or as them yet. That all said I was usually doing pretty well fate wise in Crab so the price wasn't an issue. I do agree you can utilize the card poorly.

Eager Scouts win games.

Play an Eager Scout and put 1 fate on him. Then see how much your opponent panics.

It's hilarious.

Whoa! What's the title of that inter-clan chick pic? Who's art is that?!

1 hour ago, daimaru said:

Whoa! What's the title of that inter-clan chick pic? Who's art is that?!

Steve Argyle - was art for a Promo Stronghold that allowed you to play any female character to be played as if they were your Clan.

3 hours ago, Cambeul no Oni said:

Steve Argyle - was art for a Promo Stronghold that allowed you to play any female character to be played as if they were your Clan.

what a promo

Just a friendly bit of feedback for the content creators: Try not to let slip the results of a 45 minute game 3.5 minutes into it =]