I've played a few games with and against my Phoenix deck; so far it hasn't lost. Does anyone have a deck that can extinguish the Fire Chickens? I want something to hand an opponent so that I can play Phoenix without discouraging them.

I don't mean to say I want a dedicated Phoenix hose, if that's even possible; just an equally strong deck.

I've seen a few Crab decks beat Phoenix, but to be honest I think in game play is a much bigger factor to winning games in L5R over deck construction at least given how slim the card pool is at the moment.

That's funny because I've heard more people talk about the challenges they face trying to break provinces ect.

What are you using in your deck for splash? What are your best cards you win with?

I'll post the decklist later when I can. It's Phoenix/Lion, splashing only Ready For Battle.

I agree that player ability is everything. I'm happy to let my friends play Phoenix, it forces them to LOOK AT THE RINGS!!!

Phoenix might be a bad learn to play deck. Right now I'd think those should be Lion, Crane and Dragon.

Was winning with Crab (3-1 in provinces), but had to call it early. Kisada was finally about to leave play, though, and I was out of cards, so who knows if I would have won or not.

58 minutes ago, Kakita Shijin said:

I agree that player ability is everything. I'm happy to let my friends play Phoenix, it forces them to LOOK AT THE RINGS!!!

From a game design perspective it is cool that each clan "breaks" the rules one way or another. It will help folks learn/memorize the game much quicker.

In my game that I got to play against a Crane splashing Phoenix, I won, but only because of a misplay on their part at a battle at my SH prov. Although the game did go on a few turns after that, and both of us had numerous misplays, so ultimately I figure it was a wash. What I'm saying is, this is a very new and complicated game, until people have learned the flow better I expect things will look skewed.

Ya I'd love to see what you did put in there. Not sure if my attempt at Phoenix was my bad luck string or the deck.

I'm currently 6-1 with phoenix overall between a mix of Dragon and Crane allies. My one loss was to @Danwarr using Crab where I had a Serene Warrior dishonored early and could never climb back into the game off that tempo loss. Overall, I think Phoenix are solid with a good toolbox of options available to them, but at times they feel clunky in the same way that Crab can feel clunky in the conflict side of things. I believe this is do to not enough courtiers/bushi right now to make use of For Shame! or Rout as effectively as they could. If their missing characters are courtiers or bushi, their conflict deck becomes much less clunky at times. Like every other faction right now sans Lion, I've settled on the Dragon splash probably being the best for Phoenix, though Crane was reasonable and the others are fine. It's hard to pass up Let Go and Mirumoto's Fury/Tattooed Wanderer, as they fill out any deck really nicely right now.

Their Dynasty deck is really on fire, though. I think the only character I am not sold on is the Serene Warrior with how double edged he is. Masahiro is also kind of a miss, but he does have an indirect impact on the game and is unique so he's alright for now. Tsukune absolutely is my favorite clan champion so far, and seems like she's maybe the most powerful when played well. Also the Adept of the Waves/Radiant Orator Combo is nuts and almost impossible to deal with, which has me a little worried, but that might change when we have all the cards.

Addendum: Don't even get me started on Kuroi Mori, ugh.

I managed to beat Phoenix with dragon, mixed with crab. I got lucky with cards like Niten Adept with Tattoed Wanderer and way of the Dragon to do some heavy battlefield control, and when Yokuni came out, I had him copy adept of the water to gain covert for himself. (Then I got a Tattoed warrior and such much fun). But a control heavy deck should do well against Phoenix, it seems.

Though the question did arise if Covert is considered a triggered affect for Shiba Yojimbo's ability.

Covert is not a triggered effect. Triggered effects are bold text effects like "Action:", "Reaction:", and "Interrupt" while covert is a keyword.

That is what we figured, but it came up at the table. Just because it does go off and can target a shugenja.

But forcing people to stay home then bowing them let me strike.

I think the Phoenix will be strong out of the gate, but I feel like Scorpion will be their natural foil.

After playing as or against every clan so far (except Dragon,) Phoenix feels the weakest without more previews.

As a positive, Phoenix character abilities are very good as the defending player at keeping the opponent off certain rings.

When buying 2 or 3 characters a turn and also trying to reserve some fate for conflict cards, it is difficult to participate in all four conflicts or keep people in play.

Evidence suggests that the Phoenix could be claiming the Ring of Air (RoA) several times a turn and this could be pointing towards an honor gaining strategy. (Claim RoA, then Seeker of Knowledge claim RoA, then swap rings and Tsukune claim RoA.) Also as evidence, the multiple ways Phoenix have to honor their characters.

Even if that's not the best strategy, the best way to get ring effects is attacking, but with the low character board, Phoenix is either losing honor by not defending or is not going after ring effects.

They certainly are not breaking provinces and also defending.

I used a Lion splash to keep Honored characters around and add no cost to the conflict deck, but perhaps a Crab splash for The Mountain Does Not Move would have been better.

I have beaten Lion with Crane and Crab, but I think I took one province in three games against Lion as Phoenix. That was the game where I abandoned honor gain as a strategy because even while trying to gain honor, the Lion was passively faster at it.

Please let me know your secrets, all of you Phoenix winners.

No one will beat Phoenix. Reserve your spot on the bandwagon now, before we fill up.

16 minutes ago, Nickciufi said:

No one will beat Phoenix. Reserve your spot on the bandwagon now, before we fill up.

You should be polite and share some of what your taking with the rest of us ???

21 hours ago, Iuchi Toshimo said:

After playing as or against every clan so far (except Dragon,) Phoenix feels the weakest without more previews.

As a positive, Phoenix character abilities are very good as the defending player at keeping the opponent off certain rings.

When buying 2 or 3 characters a turn and also trying to reserve some fate for conflict cards, it is difficult to participate in all four conflicts or keep people in play.

Evidence suggests that the Phoenix could be claiming the Ring of Air (RoA) several times a turn and this could be pointing towards an honor gaining strategy. (Claim RoA, then Seeker of Knowledge claim RoA, then swap rings and Tsukune claim RoA.) Also as evidence, the multiple ways Phoenix have to honor their characters.

Even if that's not the best strategy, the best way to get ring effects is attacking, but with the low character board, Phoenix is either losing honor by not defending or is not going after ring effects.

They certainly are not breaking provinces and also defending.

I used a Lion splash to keep Honored characters around and add no cost to the conflict deck, but perhaps a Crab splash for The Mountain Does Not Move would have been better.

I have beaten Lion with Crane and Crab, but I think I took one province in three games against Lion as Phoenix. That was the game where I abandoned honor gain as a strategy because even while trying to gain honor, the Lion was passively faster at it.

Please let me know your secrets, all of you Phoenix winners.

Well I will say this, forget old L5R, don't try to achieve a honor victory, this is not a defensive deck, look at the more powerful phoenix card "display of power", it says "let the enemy take your province and then crush him!".

I think the best strategy for phoenix is focus in fire ring, bring less characters to take that fate (you will need), and mainly: BID HIGH!, the phoenix major force is on conflict cards.

Don't be afraid loosing for dishonor, your honored characters will give you the honor gain you need leaving play.

Try splash dragon, let go is always needed and mirumotos fury or the cheap monk.

Dragon (Lion) and Crab (Dragon) have both taken games off of Phoenix in our playgroup, though one of those games took two hours. In all cases so far, winning came down to being aware of what the Phoenix player could potentially do, and shutting down (dishonor/bow) their big players when they are trying a tempo push (Serene Warrior/Shiba Tsukune). Not swinging into the Fire Ring when they have 2 Fate is also important. Of those two clans Dragon has had the easiest time of it.