19 minutes ago, Budgernaut said:

Is this a troll comment or did I miss something? I'm not aware of anything wrong with the movement system. Sure, there are weird situations where units pass right by each other, but the alternative is to have perfect reactions to what your opponent's units are doing. I'd rather have a few stray charges than give up simultaneously-planned movement.

This happened to me once in the first game that I played but it hasn't happened since. Only thing that I occasionally do is miscalculate a turn on a charge or something.

Dialed in orders and set movements are what I like best about this game. Very strategic, less reactionary.

1 hour ago, Budgernaut said:

Is this a troll comment or did I miss something? I'm not aware of anything wrong with the movement system. Sure, there are weird situations where units pass right by each other, but the alternative is to have perfect reactions to what your opponent's units are doing. I'd rather have a few stray charges than give up simultaneously-planned movement.

I should clarify. Simultaneous movement is fine. Template movement is not.

21 minutes ago, qwertyuiop said:

I should clarify. Simultaneous movement is fine. Template movement is not.

Ah, you just want to be able to perfectly place your units in the best position every time. Gotcha.

58 minutes ago, qwertyuiop said:

I should clarify. Simultaneous movement is fine. Template movement is not.

I was a bit reactionary in my post. I didn't like your snarky comment about FFG making an apology and I was snarky back. My apologies.

I understand the sentiment about template movements being a strange mechanic for a foot soldier miniatures game. The issue is, I can't think of another way to make the simultaneous planning matter if you can finely adjust your movement to avoid detrimental collisions or compensate for a poorly-planned march order.

54 minutes ago, rowdyoctopus said:

Ah, you just want to be able to perfectly place your units in the best position every time. Gotcha.

Who wouldn't? Being hamstrung by a game doesn't make it more strategic. I have a few issues with this game and FFG's tendency to reinvent the wheel in some cases. The template movement just happens to be the most glaring one to me. I don't want to play fantasy rectangle X-wing with Armada's game length. Template movement works well for X-Wing, but it doesn't really add anything to Rune Wars, in my opinion

15 minutes ago, Budgernaut said:

I was a bit reactionary in my post. I didn't like your snarky comment about FFG making an apology and I was snarky back. My apologies.

I understand the sentiment about template movements being a strange mechanic for a foot soldier miniatures game. The issue is, I can't think of another way to make the simultaneous planning matter if you can finely adjust your movement to avoid detrimental collisions or compensate for a poorly-planned march order.

Fair enough. I think ASoIaF kinda gets it right with their pivot allowances before and/or after movement. I'll need to look again to see when the basic choice movements are locked in. Too bad since I like Terrinoth/standard high fantasy better than Thrones. Template movement feels great in X-Wing. There's engagement and disengagement and the choice of movement template matters more (to me). There's excitement with templates in dog fights. Rune Wars is a lot of (not all) planning collisions without much thought of disengaging. Yes, you can, and occasionally it will be a good play to disengage, but it's an expensive action.

7 minutes ago, qwertyuiop said:

Who wouldn't? Being hamstrung by a game doesn't make it more strategic. I have a few issues with this game and FFG's tendency to reinvent the wheel in some cases. The template movement just happens to be the most glaring one to me. I don't want to play fantasy rectangle X-wing with Armada's game length. Template movement works well for X-Wing, but it doesn't really add anything to Rune Wars, in my opinion

Fair enough. I think ASoIaF kinda gets it right with their pivot allowances before and/or after movement. I'll need to look again to see when the basic choice movements are locked in. Too bad since I like Terrinoth/standard high fantasy better than Thrones. Template movement feels great in X-Wing. There's engagement and disengagement and the choice of movement template matters more (to me). There's excitement with templates in dog fights. Rune Wars is a lot of (not all) planning collisions without much thought of disengaging. Yes, you can, and occasionally it will be a good play to disengage, but it's an expensive action.

Legit not being a **** here, but have you played any games? On paper your objections make sense, but in motion I've had VERY little issue with the templates. They have their foibles, such as the far side of a unit swinging out during a turn and navigating between terrain being tricky, but they're very quick, very clear, and interact nicely with the pre-planned actions.

Personally template movement is one of the best things in this game. I think it does add a level of strategy.

Template movement is tricky but to me it makes a bit more sense here then it does in x-wing. it's also very different in practice than x wing. blocks of troops don't zoom past one another.

It takes practice and forethought to move and deploy your forces correctly. the mind games have more depth. it is a bit harsh though.

1 hour ago, Ywingscum said:

Personally template movement is one of the best things in this game. I think it does add a level of strategy.

But I want to run an undefined distance across the board and charge into you on turn 1!

Ok, real talk: absolutely. The fact that movement is defined by the templates allows you to "tree" out each units movement and if you were a good chess player plan out every one of your opponents optimal moves, creating your optimal moves. The templates remove none of the strategy and I would say even add some since you have to account for standard movements across the board and preplan your battle and replan on the fly.

Seems like a game where movement and flanking mean so much would be pretty bad if you could just move wherever you wanted in a certain distance.

2 hours ago, Bhelliom said:

Legit not being a **** here, but have you played any games? On paper your objections make sense, but in motion I've had VERY little issue with the templates. They have their foibles, such as the far side of a unit swinging out during a turn and navigating between terrain being tricky, but they're very quick, very clear, and interact nicely with the pre-planned actions.

As he also said it was Armada length, I'd wager we have an arm chair evaluator. RW is a significantly shorter game than Armada (although Armada isn't that point long anyway unless players are slow).

12 minutes ago, Darthain said:

As he also said it was Armada length, I'd wager we have an arm chair evaluator. RW is a significantly shorter game than Armada (although Armada isn't that point long anyway unless players are slow).

I'm pretty sure he was talking about play area size -- 6'x3' instead of X-Wing's 3'x3'.

Yeah a game of Runewars for us is like an hour, same as x wing. Never played Armada.

I like that FFG has found a unique movement system that they're implementing across different games. It's their trademark movement system at this point and it's a lot more intuitive and easier to digest than GW's measuring tape system. For what it's worth, as a previous long time WFB/40k player, this template movement does not hamper me whatsoever.

10 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

I'm pretty sure he was talking about play area size -- 6'x3' instead of X-Wing's 3'x3'.

That would qualify as the worst use of 'length' ever.

8 hours ago, Darthain said:

That would qualify as he worst use of 'length' ever.

That didn't involve parsecs?

12 hours ago, Hawkman2000 said:

I like that FFG has found a unique movement system that they're implementing across different games. It's their trademark movement system at this point and it's a lot more intuitive and easier to digest than GW's measuring tape system. For what it's worth, as a previous long time WFB/40k player, this template movement does not hamper me whatsoever.

it may have become FFGs signature movement system, but I believe it was around quite a while before FFG started using it.

22 hours ago, Bhelliom said:

Legit not being a **** here, but have you played any games? On paper your objections make sense, but in motion I've had VERY little issue with the templates. They have their foibles, such as the far side of a unit swinging out during a turn and navigating between terrain being tricky, but they're very quick, very clear, and interact nicely with the pre-planned actions.

Fair question. Yes, I've played the game several times. The templates are quick, clear, and do work well with the dials. If I think about it more, my issue is probably more with the way the templates physically interact with the trays. Basically, movement just rubs me the wrong way and I chose to call it horrible instead of using my words at first. I expected something more from a game that (might have) contributed to the FFG/GW breakup. Referencing game length, I was talking about time involved (though game area size can contribute to that). If a game of X-wing takes longer than 45 minutes, I tend to check out. Armada usually took me 60-90 minutes when I played, and Rune Wars is about the same. I'll gladly spend 3 hours playing something like Battletech or Crimson Skies, or a larger scale minis game, or 60-90 min playing something lighter like MERCs. Rune Wars is this weird mix of light in certain areas and, in my opinion, needlessly complicated in others. Something about it just feels off to me.

However, if there were a different version of the rules which let it play more like a traditional table top game, I'd probably buy in very quickly. The minis look great and I like the setting.

17 minutes ago, qwertyuiop said:

Fair question. Yes, I've played the game several times. The templates are quick, clear, and do work well with the dials. If I think about it more, my issue is probably more with the way the templates physically interact with the trays. Basically, movement just rubs me the wrong way and I chose to call it horrible instead of using my words at first. I expected something more from a game that (might have) contributed to the FFG/GW breakup. Referencing game length, I was talking about time involved (though game area size can contribute to that). If a game of X-wing takes longer than 45 minutes, I tend to check out. Armada usually took me 60-90 minutes when I played, and Rune Wars is about the same. I'll gladly spend 3 hours playing something like Battletech or Crimson Skies, or a larger scale minis game, or 60-90 min playing something lighter like MERCs. Rune Wars is this weird mix of light in certain areas and, in my opinion, needlessly complicated in others. Something about it just feels off to me.

However, if there were a different version of the rules which let it play more like a traditional table top game, I'd probably buy in very quickly. The minis look great and I like the setting.

Yeah, I'd have to really focus to finish a game in 60 minutes, but I do like how fast action resolution feels. Largely I credit the threat system keeping the number of dice down, and doing away with the defense roll/armor save side of things. I'm sure as the game ages we'll get more bloat to drag things out, but at its core I really like the system. Gotta say though, removing trays from a unit is definitely finicky. Also, it can be tough to accurately reform a unit, small units have too easy a time getting flank charges, and the squaring up process can provide a surprising amount of "free" movement. These are all basically consequences of a good, clear, and concise rules core, and I accept them gladly for the game we've received.

On 7/29/2017 at 10:51 AM, rowdyoctopus said:

No idea if they will announce anything at GenCon, but I expect new units for each faction to come out with the Uthuk. In a similar way that Death Knights and Heavy Crossbowmen are coming out with the Elves.

Ah, but are they? They're still listed as At the Printer, and while the Crossbowmen were updated to be there at the same time as all the Latari expansions until this week's Darnati, the Death Knights went to printer's over a week later. By now, it seems pretty evident that we're getting Latari Army and Essentials in August, with either a big smashing Month o' Elves in September or spread between September and October. I don't expect to see the Death Knights and Crossbowmen 'till October at the earliest, and maybe coming out even in November.

On 8/2/2017 at 3:33 PM, qwertyuiop said:

Fair question. Yes, I've played the game several times. The templates are quick, clear, and do work well with the dials. If I think about it more, my issue is probably more with the way the templates physically interact with the trays. Basically, movement just rubs me the wrong way and I chose to call it horrible instead of using my words at first. I expected something more from a game that (might have) contributed to the FFG/GW breakup. Referencing game length, I was talking about time involved (though game area size can contribute to that). If a game of X-wing takes longer than 45 minutes, I tend to check out. Armada usually took me 60-90 minutes when I played, and Rune Wars is about the same. I'll gladly spend 3 hours playing something like Battletech or Crimson Skies, or a larger scale minis game, or 60-90 min playing something lighter like MERCs. Rune Wars is this weird mix of light in certain areas and, in my opinion, needlessly complicated in others. Something about it just feels off to me.

However, if there were a different version of the rules which let it play more like a traditional table top game, I'd probably buy in very quickly. The minis look great and I like the setting.

This speaks a lot more to communicate your position than the original. Thanks for that. But I'm really taking the time to quote you to give you a Crimson Skies high five. Two weeks 'till my annual "Track down Mitch and Jordan and lobby for CS as the next Kickstarter project for HBS" at GenCon. Mitch, at least, seems 100% on board, so I've got a man on the inside. I'm mad as **** that I've got a conflict Friday-Sunday, so I'll miss the Friday night CS game at GenCon this year.

2 hours ago, kaffis said:

Ah, but are they? They're still listed as At the Printer, and while the Crossbowmen were updated to be there at the same time as all the Latari expansions until this week's Darnati, the Death Knights went to printer's over a week later. By now, it seems pretty evident that we're getting Latari Army and Essentials in August, with either a big smashing Month o' Elves in September or spread between September and October. I don't expect to see the Death Knights and Crossbowmen 'till October at the earliest, and maybe coming out even in November.

By "with the Elves" I meant at the same time as the Latari expansions. I stand by that. Whatever window the Latari expansions release in will see the Death Knights and Crossbowmen as well.

I'm hoping they'll have a Malaana model in a display case, similar to how they had Hawthorne and Marrow last year. We may not get her news article for a few more weeks, but I'm dying to know if she's still riding that two-tailed scorpion!

P.S. I just finished BattleLore: Command and defeated Malaana so I earned her again as a playable unit on my new computer. What fun!

I'm hoping the additional unit and hero for Uthuk are announced before Gencon and then at the convention they announce a wave consisting of 2 new units per faction. That would give each faction some much needed choice to make list building rather more interesting.

On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 3:50 PM, kaffis said:

Two weeks 'till my annual "Track down Mitch and Jordan and lobby for CS as the next Kickstarter project for HBS" at GenCon. Mitch, at least, seems 100% on board, so I've got a man on the inside. I'm mad as **** that I've got a conflict Friday-Sunday, so I'll miss the Friday night CS game at GenCon this year.

With them taking a break from Shadowrun, I wonder if they'll have the opportunity after Battletech to do Crimson Skies. It certainly lends itself to a "table top combat, man on the ground roleplaying" system.