2 hours ago, Force Majeure said:

I have to try this. Just for the experience alone.

It takes a different style to play because of the restricted arc. Works with the HLC as well.

No R1 donut hole but less effective outside of arc. Still a good hitter at any range in arc.

In the current low agility high health ship meta, Mangler works just as well. In the past though when high agility aces ruled the meta it was almost impossible to push any damage through unless you had a HLC and VI to preposition beyond range 1. Its all relative and depends on what you are up against in your local meta.

6 hours ago, Stoneface said:

It takes a different style to play because of the restricted arc. Works with the HLC as well.

No R1 donut hole but less effective outside of arc. Still a good hitter at any range in arc.

Might work well with Eaden Vrill - if you can get a stresshog (or a tactician in Eaden's crew slot), then whilst the turret is hardly a devastating primary weapon it's probably reliable enough to not die in a ditch if someone gets outside your cannon's arc.

I could see a non-Outrider 2400 working much the same way as Scouts do - have a big punch in arc, plus a turret out of arc, plus a decent dial and barrel roll to block.

But of course, the Fringer costs FIVE points more, has a worse dial, and has to spend 2 extra points if it wants the same four dice attack (albeit, that attack is permanent, rather than double-use), AND has a much worse dial. Oh, and doesn't have an EPT.

Poor Fringer.

E: that is to say, a Scout with Trick Shot, EM, Plasma, Chips costs the same as a naked Fringer.

3 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

I could see a non-Outrider 2400 working much the same way as Scouts do - have a big punch in arc, plus a turret out of arc, plus a decent dial and barrel roll to block.

But of course, the Fringer costs FIVE points more, has a worse dial, and has to spend 2 extra points if it wants the same four dice attack (albeit, that attack is permanent, rather than double-use), AND has a much worse dial. Oh, and doesn't have an EPT.

Poor Fringer.

E: that is to say, a Scout with Trick Shot, EM, Plasma, Chips costs the same as a naked Fringer.

FFG needs to replace the batteries in their calculator.

55 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

FFG needs to replace the batteries in their calculator.

Agreed. Plasma Torps, Extra Munitions and Guidance Chips coming in at 2 points under the cost of a Heavy Laser Cannon I can stomach - the Heavy Laser Cannon requires no action 'setup', and can fire more than 2 shots.

It's the difference between the Wildspace Fringer and Contracted Scout, both as they come, that really underlines the problem.

I get that no-one used the Wildspace Fringer and Outer Rim Smuggler, because they were massively too expensive for their ability.

For that matter, I've yet to see anyone do much with the Resistance Sympathiser.

So clearly the Contracted Scout needed to be better. But being that much better and cheaper?

I suspect if you could pack three Wildspace Fringers with cannons (essentially turning them into a 'heavy B-wing') in a squad, they might be seen rather more often. That'd need them to be only 26 points - which given their extra shield and lack of elite slot doesn't seem unreasonable vs the contracted scout.

1 minute ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Agreed. Plasma Torps, Extra Munitions and Guidance Chips coming in at 2 points under the cost of a Heavy Laser Cannon I can stomach - the Heavy Laser Cannon requires no action 'setup', and can fire more than 2 shots.

It's the difference between the Wildspace Fringer and Contracted Scout, both as they come, that really underlines the problem.

I get that no-one used the Wildspace Fringer and Outer Rim Smuggler, because they were massively too expensive for their ability.

For that matter, I've yet to see anyone do much with the Resistance Sympathiser.

So clearly the Contracted Scout needed to be better. But being that much better and cheaper?

I suspect if you could pack three Wildspace Fringers with cannons (essentially turning them into a 'heavy B-wing') in a squad, they might be seen rather more often. That'd need them to be only 26 points - which given their extra shield and lack of elite slot doesn't seem unreasonable vs the contracted scout.

Yup. Fringer at 26, Smuggler at 25, Scout without EPT at 27 would probably be fine.

I like putting a mangler of Vrill... it's probably better than lone wolf Leebo.

Smuggler at 25, definitely. The only reason you'd voluntarily take a low-level generic large ship is if doing so enabled you to put in an 'extra one'.

Three heavily upgraded Outer Rim Smugglers could work, but since the non-falcon smugglers don't get evade, or secondary weapon slots, or the extra hit points and shields.....bloody ****, I never realised how bad these ships are (they're little more than a Y-wing with a dorsal turret and a shield upgrade, which is only 25 points including a largely-overpriced-modification)....you can't really strap enough onto them to make a scary 33 point ship; a 2-dice turret by itself is never really going to achieve much and you don't have the slots to make them anything else. That means the only time they'd do anything is a theoretical mob of 4 generics.

I've never seen anyone use 4 contracted scouts in practice, so I don't know how it'd do. Certainly the extra hit point is a lousy compensation for agility 1 and barrel roll.

I'd probably suggest 24 points. That makes them cheap enough to pack Wookie Commandoes by default, or a couple of tacticians, or...something. I doubt 4 2-dice attacks, even in turrets, will really achieve much.

I don't know about the contracted scout. The Elite talent definitely is the odd turkey out on a cheap generic, but I'm not sure I mind too much if the points go up. Trick Shot and Adaptability aren't too terrifying to face, and as long as it's 27 points, if you want a torpedo and extra munitions, your other slots are either free or empty.

3 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Yup. Fringer at 26, Smuggler at 25, Scout without EPT at 27 would probably be fine.

It's the disparities mentioned that have me doing a lot of head scratching. I can understand a small based ship being over or under costed by a point or two, except for recent releases, but the large based ships are head shakers. They don't seem to make sense on how they statted out. It's like FFG changed the algorithm used to price the stuff and never checked their calcs.

OR, it's the foundation for a 2.0 release, if you're into conspiracy theories.

It costs 12pts to buff the Punishing One by 1 red dice.

It costs 3pts to buff the Outrider by 1 red dice. That's a really effective use of those 3pts.

With Kanan crew, I really don't see the need for EU on SuperDash any more.

When it was Kyle Katarn limiting Dash to his greens, sure. But with that huge dial of whites and a native barrel roll, EU is just points better spent elsewhere.

2 hours ago, SOTL said:

It costs 12pts to buff the Punishing One by 1 red dice.

It costs 3pts to buff the Outrider by 1 red dice. That's a really effective use of those 3pts.

3 points? How?

7 points for HLC and 5 points for Outrider title = 12 points, thats the same as the Punishing One Title

5 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

3 points? How?

The question is about HLC vs Mangler. The difference is 3pts.

Ah I see.