Is it worth saving the 3 points to drop HLC down to Mangler on Dash/Leebo?

I prefer Mangler on PtL Dash with Kanan because I don't need to factor the donut into my maneuvering decisions. It also messes with opponents who are conditioned against HLC. The 3 point savings is just a bonus.

Not rolling the 4 dice can really stop the damage being punched through. Yes, you lose the donut and save points, but the HLC is better overall.

I do it from time to time. HLC is a lot better, A LOT! The question is when you drop to Mangler... are there better options than Dash @ this point level?

I tried Mangler Dash for a month. Losing the points and the donut hole was nice, but the 4th die was really crucial to push damage through.

IMHO, without the HLC, the Outrider title is not worth it. Take Chewie or Lando with Bistan for a similar ship.

if you really wanna go nuts run autoblaster outrider, then it becomes the doughnut hole of death

The Donut?

3 minutes ago, Stefan said:

The Donut?

The range 1 hole in HLC Outrider damage output. HLC is range 2-3 and Outrider title doesn't allow primary weapon firing. Thus, the damage output is like a range 2-3 donut around the Outrider.

47 minutes ago, Stefan said:

The Donut?

The Outrider title gives the YT-2400 cannon upgrade the ability to shot outside your main firing arc, but the downside is that you cannot use your primary weapon. Heavy Laser Cannons have the range 2-3 and cannot shot in range 1. It creates a range 2-3, 360 degree "donut" firing arc around the YT-2400, while range 1 is the donut hole is where the Outrider cannot fire. A skilled player with a high Pilot Skill and fast ship can hide in range 1 the hole not allowing the Outrider to fire.

Thanks. Was aware of the problem but never heard the name.

The thing about "Mango-Dash" is that, if he gives away initiative, he beats "Heavy-Laser-Dash" every time by slipping into range one. Otherwise, HLC is better. So if you run "Mango-Dash" you need a good bid, probably no more than 97-98 points total, just so you can give it away against HLC. But that's just my opinion, you do you.

Mango Dash was viable about 4-5 waves ago. But with the power creep since then its HLC or bust.

15 minutes ago, Celez said:

Mango Dash was viable about 4-5 waves ago. But with the power creep since then its HLC or bust.

Maybe, but perhaps not. And mangler cannon was introduced only 5 waves ago, are you saying he died only a wave after he came out?

On the Outrider since it already takes up most of your points you want as much damage as possible. Manglers crit doesn't quite match HLC's extra die even if they crit less often.

Now for Heavy Scyks because it is so fragile you do wan't to drop down to manglers so you have more points to spare and they don't give as much MoV. Mangler Scyks IMHO are the best Heavy build available for that ship.

Am a big fan of Dash with Outrider - Mangler with Lando crew - give the experimental interface and Tickshot and he can be annoying - It's a gamble but that's what Dash is good at, right?

Heavy laser cannon dash rendar does something unique - throw 4 dice (more like 4.5 because you have no range defence bonus) - out to range 3 through 360'.

Mangler cannon closes the blind spot, but......is it really better than a 3-dice primary that the falcon, dauntless, or punishing one, which would get a 4th die at range 1?

Personally, I would previously have said heck no, because there are ships that are funcitonally immune to Mangler turrets and Dash therefore just can't kill them. But those ships (TIE Interceptors) just aren't in the meta much at the moment, so Mangler Outriders probably have a better time.

But even then, the 4th dice is really important.

In the current environment, you need 4 dice for sure!

On 29/07/2017 at 5:36 AM, Burius1981 said:

if you really wanna go nuts run autoblaster outrider, then it becomes the doughnut hole of death

I've actually won a tournament with that - Autoblaster on a WSF is astoundingly potent, perhaps the best blocker in the game, especially combined with Zeb, APLs and so forth.

If I run a HLC Dash, Engine upgrade is simply compulsory, as the doughnut is very easy to exploit without it. Whereas with a Mdngler Dash I can usually ignore an Engine upgrade in favour of buffing my second ship. Essentially, this makes HLC 11 points for me. I'm also a big fan of Smuggling Compartment on YT-2400s, so HLC really shuts down my preferred builds.

Not many ships in the meta with auto thrusters, so mangler works. Mangler Dash with Super Corran went undefeated 5-0 in swiss at a store champ last month. As long as you arent relying on Dash to do ALL the heavy lifting, mangler is a good option.

On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 1:00 PM, BlodVargarna said:

Is it worth saving the 3 points to drop HLC down to Mangler on Dash/Leebo?

Autoblaster or no balls

But seriously, HLC or you've wasted points. HLC allows you to punch through Fenn.

If things are regularly getting into range one of Dash or Leebo, you're doing it wrong.

Has anyone tried the HLC without the title? Fly it like a real heavy fighter.

20 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Personally, I would previously have said heck no, because there are ships that are funcitonally immune to Mangler turrets and Dash therefore just can't kill them. But those ships (TIE Interceptors) just aren't in the meta much at the moment, so Mangler Outriders probably have a better time.

But even then, the 4th dice is really important.

But by that same argument, it was the double-repositioning, push-the-limit, PS8/9 squint and tap aces who tended to be the ones getting in the heavy laser's blind spot, so if they're getting rarer...

16 hours ago, Stoneface said:

Has anyone tried the HLC without the title? Fly it like a real heavy fighter.

I have to try this. Just for the experience alone.