10 minutes ago, JuzFuzz said:

Anyway... time to move on.

What do people think about the deck Jeremy created around Hera?
I was wondering if Finn may be an interesting pairing (in some combination of others). Purely to slip out an AT-ST or similar... and maybe recycle it.

The Idea I have had with Finn so far may be a little odd, but I was thinking 2 finn 2 Rookie Pilots. Or 1 Finn, 1 Rookie, 1 Hera not a huge fan of that second list simply because 3 dice doesnt seem to be all that amazing here and makes it even harder to reliably get hera's dice where you want it, the first ones issue is the same thing with every support deck right now though no money to pay for it, ultimately I dont think finn is going to find a place unfortunately.

24 minutes ago, Buhallin said:

Is 7 or 8 damage in one turn unreasonable for Poe? Not even a little bit, in my experience. Sure, you can nitpick on whether it was 7, or 8, or the exact order it happened in, but what's your actual point? Because everyone knows this is very possible for Poe/Maz to accomplish, so it's not like you're disproving his point.

You're basically claiming the sun never came up because someone said dawn was at 6:12 when you know it was 6:15.

7 or 8 damage is completely doable for Poe/Max in a turn. I mean it's doable for most decks. Kylo/Vader, QuiGon/Rey, FN anything. Even Palp himself just has to resolve one dice for 3 and the other for anything and he will be dealing 7 of just his own dice. Any competitive deck can hit for those nunbers, so that's not what isn't believable

What isn't believeable is that the 6 damage play described killed Palp at the opening of turn 2. Palp has 15 health, if you're playing at the Throne Room he took shields. For 6 damage to put him down turn 2 then he would have had to been dealt 11 damage the previous turn. Can Poe/Maz deal 11 damage turn 1? If both Poe dice are Falcons, Maz dice are damage, and you get a Planetary off; sure. But if that's what actually happened don't you think the poster would have mentioned that? Considering how bonkers that would have been? But they didn't.

So color me skeptical of the posters claim that their Palp got killed Turn 2 with the play described. Turn 3? Maybe if you don't mitigate much since Palp is the lowest health list in the gane but that just doesn't sound as good as Turn 2. What's a little hyperbole when trying to support your stance afterall?

I'm not saying the sun didn't rise today, I'm saying it didn't rise in the west.

18 minutes ago, tunewalker said:

The Idea I have had with Finn so far may be a little odd, but I was thinking 2 finn 2 Rookie Pilots. Or 1 Finn, 1 Rookie, 1 Hera not a huge fan of that second list simply because 3 dice doesnt seem to be all that amazing here and makes it even harder to reliably get hera's dice where you want it, the first ones issue is the same thing with every support deck right now though no money to pay for it, ultimately I dont think finn is going to find a place unfortunately.

I'd fear for those rookie pilots once Finn dies... haha. I'd like to try Finn, Hera and Maz for a bit of fun. Ultimately I don't think Finn has a home yet neither. Unless there is something coming in the next set to boost him up.

23 minutes ago, ScottieATF said:

What isn't believeable is that the 6 damage play described killed Palp at the opening of turn 2.

He didn't actually say it killed Palpatine. He said it was enough to end the game. Thanks to Planetary Uprising, being at 2 or less is enough to end the game.

So the math is more like 7 in turn 2 means he only had to do 4 in turn one, even with the shields.

26 minutes ago, ScottieATF said:

What's a little hyperbole when trying to support your stance afterall?

What's a little reading comprehension when you're trying to support your stance after all?

I don't know if that's actually what happened to him, but I know I've had games like that where Poe went off and I knew the game was over. I may have had living characters, but the game was over. My last SC I ate 22 damage before I took an action in Turn 2 thanks to Poe/Maz. (Just because I'd hate to be accused of hyperbole: I had 3 characters. Turn 1, Thermal, Poe's 3 side and Maz's 1 for 13. Second turn, Hit and Run, special, Thermal for 9 more). Was the game over? Not technically - I had one character with 2 health left, and 1 with 1. But it was most certainly enough to end the game. Pretty sure that's slightly above the "Lots of decks can do that" curve.

2 hours ago, Buhallin said:

He didn't actually say it killed Palpatine. He said it was enough to end the game. Thanks to Planetary Uprising, being at 2 or less is enough to end the game.

So the math is more like 7 in turn 2 means he only had to do 4 in turn one, even with the shields.

What's a little reading comprehension when you're trying to support your stance after all?

I don't know if that's actually what happened to him, but I know I've had games like that where Poe went off and I knew the game was over. I may have had living characters, but the game was over. My last SC I ate 22 damage before I took an action in Turn 2 thanks to Poe/Maz. (Just because I'd hate to be accused of hyperbole: I had 3 characters. Turn 1, Thermal, Poe's 3 side and Maz's 1 for 13. Second turn, Hit and Run, special, Thermal for 9 more). Was the game over? Not technically - I had one character with 2 health left, and 1 with 1. But it was most certainly enough to end the game. Pretty sure that's slightly above the "Lots of decks can do that" curve.

Really want to go with the reading comprehension remark when he's stated directly that he didn't get free reign that turn because the play killed Palp? So yes, he did actually say it killed Palp.

And your anecdote is exactly why the hyperbole isn't required.

You illustrated a scenario in which the deck was able to output a ton of damage with only slightly favorable rolls and draws. 22 damage at the start round 2 is a legitimate boogyman to fear. Getting hit for 6 damage via a play that requires your opponent to opt out of the turn by contrast isn't.

No other deck can output the damage you're describing in that period of time. Most competitive decks can do 6 unanswerable if they care to, even early game.

17 minutes ago, ScottieATF said:

Really want to go with the reading comprehension remark when he's stated directly that he didn't get free reign that turn because the play killed Palp? So yes, he did actually say it killed Palp.

Not in the initial post he didn't. Which I will admit is my bad for not bothering to read the rest of the trash fire that was this conversation. But it also wasn't in you original response where you went after him.

But I know I'm certainly glad you were here to call him out and clear up his anecdote. Those extra one or two damage certainly changed my view of how broken Poe/Maz is!

7 hours ago, tunewalker said:

The Idea I have had with Finn so far may be a little odd, but I was thinking 2 finn 2 Rookie Pilots. Or 1 Finn, 1 Rookie, 1 Hera not a huge fan of that second list simply because 3 dice doesnt seem to be all that amazing here and makes it even harder to reliably get hera's dice where you want it, the first ones issue is the same thing with every support deck right now though no money to pay for it, ultimately I dont think finn is going to find a place unfortunately.

Certainly fun to try, not competitive, but fun. Of course, more spoilers could prove me wrong, some EaW red vehicule or weapon could justifies the uses of Finn... or we will have to wait for december set to have another chance to "boost" Finn... Or they will abandon this card in favor of another version of Finn.

4 hours ago, Buhallin said:

Not in the initial post he didn't. Which I will admit is my bad for not bothering to read the rest of the trash fire that was this conversation. But it also wasn't in you original response where you went after him.

But I know I'm certainly glad you were here to call him out and clear up his anecdote. Those extra one or two damage certainly changed my view of how broken Poe/Maz is!

Don't worry, Poe errata is coming just before or at the EaW release. It seems unrelated to initial post, but it is. In order to actually make any kind of vehicule deck, they have to get rid of actual Poe/Maz.

On 7/28/2017 at 1:10 PM, Stu35 said:

The more I think about it, the more I become convinced there's a heavy Poe nerf on the horizon.

I don't know when it'll be - Before Empire comes out, early in Empires cycle (after they've had a final look at exactly where on him the axe should fall) or late in Empires cycle (when they realise they're bleeding players at a rapid rate because everyone is sick of Poe).

Alternatively, there will be cards in Empire which deal with him directly, who knows?

Something like once per turn, I hope!

So if there is a Poe nerf coming then why didn't it already occur when he's one half of a deck that is winning what 35% of events? What would be the reason to wait on it?

I hold out some hope that it's just some combination of being overly cautious with the nerf and just a continuing lack of understanding of what they created in Poe/Maz, and that now that they've tried Fast Hands, something else will be coming.

Likely far too late, though. I'm really regretting giving my entire Saturday at GenCon to Destiny at this point.

2 hours ago, ScottieATF said:

So if there is a Poe nerf coming then why didn't it already occur when he's one half of a deck that is winning what 35% of events? What would be the reason to wait on it?

Because a lot of people have put a lot of effort and money into creating a deck that was clearly going to be competitive from day 1, and FFG doesn't want to piss off that many paying customers until they at least get a chance to show off at NA Champs.

16 hours ago, ScottieATF said:

7 or 8 damage is completely doable for Poe/Max in a turn. I mean it's doable for most decks. Kylo/Vader, QuiGon/Rey, FN anything. Even Palp himself just has to resolve one dice for 3 and the other for anything and he will be dealing 7 of just his own dice. Any competitive deck can hit for those nunbers, so that's not what isn't believable

What isn't believeable is that the 6 damage play described killed Palp at the opening of turn 2. Palp has 15 health, if you're playing at the Throne Room he took shields. For 6 damage to put him down turn 2 then he would have had to been dealt 11 damage the previous turn. Can Poe/Maz deal 11 damage turn 1? If both Poe dice are Falcons, Maz dice are damage, and you get a Planetary off; sure. But if that's what actually happened don't you think the poster would have mentioned that? Considering how bonkers that would have been? But they didn't.

So color me skeptical of the posters claim that their Palp got killed Turn 2 with the play described. Turn 3? Maybe if you don't mitigate much since Palp is the lowest health list in the gane but that just doesn't sound as good as Turn 2. What's a little hyperbole when trying to support your stance afterall?

I'm not saying the sun didn't rise today, I'm saying it didn't rise in the west.

I can say with a bit of luck I can kill Rey turn one. Or kill her by the end of turn 2 on an off day. So a 2 turn kill on Palp seems quite easy. I've only managed a turn 3 kill against him but not many people play Palpatine around here.

14 hours ago, Buhallin said:

Not in the initial post he didn't. Which I will admit is my bad for not bothering to read the rest of the trash fire that was this conversation. But it also wasn't in you original response where you went after him.

But I know I'm certainly glad you were here to call him out and clear up his anecdote. Those extra one or two damage certainly changed my view of how broken Poe/Maz is!

Scottie clearly has little or no experience against a good Poe deck helmed by someone who knows what they are doing. This is why he is getting stuck on one or two points of damage by a deck that can do so much more. There was 4 points just by planetary uprising in two turns. Getting another 11 or 13 or who gives a F.. isn't difficult for that deck and isn't something someone would argue about who has experience with that deck and knows what they are talking about.

They just did a nerf on Poe/Maz in the form of Fast Hands. So they did a little tweak to see if that brings the deck in line. They need to do another little tweak and maybe another little tweak. Poe is a legendary card in a CCG after all. They really need to be careful with how they manage a collectable game. It isn't X Wing where they can run around and change everything all the time and expect everyone to remember all the changes. Destiny has way too many cards for that to work.

6 minutes ago, Mep said:

Poe is a legendary card in a CCG after all.

So is Quadjumper

I understand how nerfing an expensive card will annoy people, but I'd much rather them fix it for the good of the game as a whole.

Half the issue I see with Poes ability, I don't get me wrong here I have played Poe/Maz and Poe/Rey so I'm not a hater as such is the ability to use the special to resolve any upgrade, irrelevant of colour, play restrictions or class. I have been on the wrong side of a double Thermal Detanator turn one, and at that point you might as well call the game!

Not sure of the solution. Fast hands has defo helped alleviate it slightly though.

On 7/30/2017 at 9:39 PM, JuzFuzz said:

Anyway... time to move on.

What do people think about the deck Jeremy created around Hera?
I was wondering if Finn may be an interesting pairing (in some combination of others). Purely to slip out an AT-ST or similar... and maybe recycle it.

Obviously the combination of Recycle and Hera is appealing, but I question just how good it's going to be. Recycle strikes me as similar to Premonition; it's great if you get it at the right time, but can really let you down. And ideally, those two cards are generating 8 resources for you (1 to play, recycling a 5-cost support both times). That's the dream, but how effective is that, really? I guess it'll come down to a lot of playtesting, but it looks like one of those combos that appears better on paper than in actual practice.