I’m in the middle of running Chronical of the Gatekeeper and one of my players successfully got a thermal detonator and now I am getting close to the end and they haven’t used it. I’ve got a fairly nasty fight coming up and I figure they will use it on the group of let’s call them uninvited guests on the last planet you go to. Anyway, one of the group is a force sensitive from earlier in the adventure but didn’t really don’t want it to be over too quickly from a fusion reaction hurled at their face by a robot. So I’d figured I could just narratively say “he bats your little ball away like it's nothing” but he isn’t that powerful or amazing really, I was thinking something like the reflect talent where he can knock the device away but I don’t know if reflect works on grenades or if I’d need to use something like protecting or force move to send it flying away.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to handle PCs with man portable nukes?

Reflect certainly can do it, as it works vs Ranged Light, which a Grenade is. (Improved Reflect wouldn't be usable to reflect it back at them, as not an energy weapon)

4 minutes ago, Darzil said:

Reflect certainly can do it, as it works vs Ranged Light, which a Grenade is. (Improved Reflect wouldn't be usable to reflect it back at them, as not an energy weapon)

My only concern is I would have to put a lot of ranks in reflect on being able to dodge the damage. Though... in their last fight, they did do a lot of blaster fire to him.

Protect is your best bet (Control Upgrade to use it as an OoTI, Plus Mastery), and could be narratively flavored as this. But again Soaking all that damage to get the reflect effect would be difficult.

Question, can you use protect/unleash and the reflect talent for the same event?

Actually, there's also the "Time To Go" Talent. Doesn't reflect it back, but it does get your baddy out of harms way.

Again going back to improved reflect, it is normally used on energy weapons but it was noted that the Keeping the Peace page with someone redirecting a rocket was described by a dev as narrative use of reflect.

If a player had the move power and an NPC while throwing the grenade at the group AND missed I would say that might be justifyable in saying that they used move to protect the group, if they didnt trigger blast. Narraticely it sounds better than, "they miss". Ultimately it's the same result and it is always better to dress up the narrative to be cool than to be boring.

Give the baddy 16 point more Woundthreshhold (toughend Rank 8) , give him the armor master talent to reduce crits by soak x 2 for a bit of strain.

also let him have a cortosis weaved armor (remember you may increase soak thanks to the enduring talent if needed to let him live a bit longer)

Let him eat the TD and say congrats to the players that they didn't waist the TD on some minions, since without it this fight would have been a whole lot more of trouble (never tell them that you increased the WT because of the TD.

But DON'T take them away the good feeling of finally use this little baddy, they found it and didn't use it because of this purpurse

Just to say :
"Haha you did not just waisted your action and you TD no it just comes back at you with 20 dm 2 Breach crit 2 vicious 5, just because i don't want that my baddy dies by it"

well that would be just extremly meeeeehhhh

3 hours ago, Nightone said:

Give the baddy 16 point more Woundthreshhold (toughend Rank 8) , give him the armor master talent to reduce crits by soak x 2 for a bit of strain.

also let him have a cortosis weaved armor (remember you may increase soak thanks to the enduring talent if needed to let him live a bit longer)

Let him eat the TD and say congrats to the players that they didn't waist the TD on some minions, since without it this fight would have been a whole lot more of trouble (never tell them that you increased the WT because of the TD.

But DON'T take them away the good feeling of finally use this little baddy, they found it and didn't use it because of this purpurse

Just to say :
"Haha you did not just waisted your action and you TD no it just comes back at you with 20 dm 2 Breach crit 2 vicious 5, just because i don't want that my baddy dies by it"

well that would be just extremly meeeeehhhh

So, don't neuter it with legitimate mechanics, but do neuter it with stacked WT points that they can't see or ever know or benefit from or do anything about?

Sorry, I don't see that as any better.

Time To Go is a legitimate Talent, it gives the PCs something for their effort (a Destiny Point), and it prevents your NPC from being one-shotted.

Very simple. Everyone wins.

Alternatively, you can make this a legitimately survivable thing fairly easily, with Adversary 3, Sense w/ the commit/Control upgrades for defense, a stout Brawn+Soak Cortosis Armor (if you're not afraid of your PCs walking away with that Armor afterward), adequate Reflect , and maybe throw in a Talent like Sense Advantage to give them a pile of Setbacks.

With a Brawn of 5, Cortosis Armor w/ 2 Soak, Reflect w/ 5 ranks, and Enduring 1 gets you to shrugging off 14 points from that Thermal-D, and with all the Adversary/Sense/Setbacks and heck maybe a Destiny flip to upgrade their Dif AGAIN, you're gonna minimize net successes and crit effects - if not cause a completely legitimate wiff and likely a Despair to do something cool with.

Afterward, recoup with a Stimpak if needed, using mobility (Enhance with ALL the jump upgrades) to give your BB space and time for this and of course banter.

Adversary 4, Defence 3. Ensure there is environmental Setback

Engage with or get to Short range of the Droids allies as quickly as possible.

TD's have a blast radius of Short which also happens to be the range they can be thrown.

Ranged attacks at Engaged targets automatically upgrades the checks. Despair can be spent to hit an engaged friend of the attacker

On 29/07/2017 at 3:24 AM, Richardbuxton said:

Adversary 4, Defence 3. Ensure there is environmental Setback

Engage with or get to Short range of the Droids allies as quickly as possible.

TD's have a blast radius of Short which also happens to be the range they can be thrown.

Ranged attacks at Engaged targets automatically upgrades the checks. Despair can be spent to hit an engaged friend of the attacker

Actually it isnt Despair can be us used to have it hit a friendly engaged target, its Despair MUST be used to hit a friendly engaged target, there is no option for choosing this, one of the few times that a Despair has a fixed result.

Thermal detonators are problematic indeed. There's little room between "target (and possibly everyone around them) obliterated" and "nyah, nyah, you just wasted 2,000 credits". Even worse, purely by the rules, there's no obligation to trigger the blast effect, so you can theoretically have a pin-point explosion that hits nothing except for the targeted character. And finally, I don't think Time to Go can be used to evade a thermal detonator that directly targets the character: Time to Go seems to only work against the Blast trait, which is not the one that will inflict 20 damage with Vicious 4 and Breach 1 on him. And even if you allow it, it still only allows one move action, which is just enough to move from engaged with the thermal detonator to short range from the thermal detonator (and thus still in the blast radius).

@emsquared I'm not against the baddie using skills to reduce the dmg or to give him a better chance in survilability, it's the opposite I encourage it.

But what I don't like and thus dicourage is the OPs' first intension of just "reflect"-throw the TD right back at the SCs. If you build an encounter that is just to have the players eat theire own 20 Dmg, 2 crit, vicious 5, Breach 2 weapon... well it is the same as if you start the session with something like this: "Hi everyone, last time you followed the BBG to his rabbit hole and put him ti the corner, very nice job. So today you all awake in a prison cell. Why? Oh easy he just overwhelmd your mind and destroyed all your equipment oh and (rolling a dice) Player X you also sufferd an critical injurie just because I want it... erm I meant the BBG wanted it..."

It is for the players farmore encouraging if they see that theire well planned action have some sort of effect, so to let the BBG be able to eat most of the dmg in a manner that doesn't render the normal weapons of players useless (something that most of the option presented here would do since they would be activate the whole time (advasary 4, Deflect3, dodge 4 (yeah at strain cost but a nemesis can also recover some of this), Sense... ect.)

@Nightone while I obviously do not know the OPs PCs capabilities, he mentioned they're nearing the end of their campaign. So I assume they're several hundreds of XP in. And if you don't do those very basic things I mentioned (Adversary, Cortosis, high Soak, high Reflect, etc.), with PCs of that power level, the BBEG is gonna go out like a candle anyway - TD or no TD. What I outlined is only a little more than basic action economy-deficit prep.

Truly one of the best things the OP could/should do is put a couple sizeable Darktrooper Minion Groups flanking the BB, where the PC might be more liable to aim an area attack anyway. Also basic action economy deficit prep.

Stacking up WT without a stout buff to defense isn't going to make a more challenging battle, it's just gonna get him through the TD.

2 hours ago, emsquared said:

@Nightone while I obviously do not know the OPs PCs capabilities, he mentioned they're nearing the end of their campaign. So I assume they're several hundreds of XP in. And if you don't do those very basic things I mentioned (Adversary, Cortosis, high Soak, high Reflect, etc.), with PCs of that power level, the BBEG is gonna go out like a candle anyway - TD or no TD. What I outlined is only a little more than basic action economy-deficit prep.

Truly one of the best things the OP could/should do is put a couple sizeable Darktrooper Minion Groups flanking the BB, where the PC might be more liable to aim an area attack anyway. Also basic action economy deficit prep.

Stacking up WT without a stout buff to defense isn't going to make a more challenging battle, it's just gonna get him through the TD.

oh and give the NPC imperial valor.

Don't forget that a thermal detonator can only be thrown to short range. And it should blast everything in short range. So unless the have Strong Arm talent, they hit themselves too. And the GM is allowed to have blast trigger regardless of advantage, depending on the situation. With a Thermal Detonator, I would rule any indoor use triggers blast. The players will either have to suicide, or find a way to throw it in the room with the bad guy and close the door.

Thank you for all of the suggestions. So far here is what I've done (See welcoming party attached). I think that the party will have some trouble with this group I expect them to win, but it should be very challenging. Then again they would just arrive on Moraband and they have all hit paragon even after using rules to slow them down (well except for the droid and the guy who tried to call the Emporer, but lets not...not talk about that one please). Anyway, I figure now would be a great time to meet old 'friends' since they completely skipped most of the content in the second chapter they had no reason the gang lords would even take notice or care about the party. So now they have this pain train coming down on their heads.

Welcoming party.pdf

40 minutes ago, Idward said:

Thank you for all of the suggestions. So far here is what I've done (See welcoming party attached). I think that the party will have some trouble with this group I expect them to win, but it should be very challenging. Then again they would just arrive on Moraband and they have all hit paragon even after using rules to slow them down (well except for the droid and the guy who tried to call the Emporer, but lets not...not talk about that one please). Anyway, I figure now would be a great time to meet old 'friends' since they completely skipped most of the content in the second chapter they had no reason the gang lords would even take notice or care about the party. So now they have this pain train coming down on their heads.

Welcoming party.pdf

Your pdf isn't working for me for whatever reason.

8 minutes ago, Underachiever599 said:

Your pdf isn't working for me for whatever reason.

Oh no... Well here is the updated baddies

Gel Marcolf [Nemesis]

B4 A3 I2 C3 W3 P4

S6 W22 St20 M1/R1

Skills: Coercion 2, Discipline 3, Leadership 2, Lightsaber 3, Melee 3, Perception 2, Ranged (Light) 2.
Talents: Adversary 1 (upgrade difficulty of all combat check against this target once), Force Rating 2, Enhanced Leader (add force die equal to Force rating to Leadership checks; spend 3 pips to add success or advantage to the result), Parry 3 (when struck by a melee attack but before applying soak, suffer 3 strain to reduce damage by 5), Parry 3 (when struck by a melee attack but before applying soak, suffer 3 strain to reduce damage by 5), Sense Advantage (Once per game session, the character may add ■ ■ to the skill check of one NPC within extreme range.)
Abilities: Dark Side Force User, Force Power: Battle Meditation (spend pip to add one automatic success to the checks of up to four friendly targets for one turn, but using dark pip reduces their Willpower by one; targets must make an Easy Discipline check if they wish to resist orders given as part of this power). Sense (Spend a pip to sense all living things within short range; commit one force die once per round when an attack targets the Gel Marcolf, he upgrades the difficulty of the pool once.)
Equipment: Corrupted longhilt Lightsaber (Lightsaber; Damage 6; Critical 2; Range [Engaged]; Breach 1, Sunder, Vicious 4) (adds dark pip), blaster pistol (Ranged [Light], Damage 6; Critical 3; Range [Medium]; Stun setting), 2 stun grenades (Ranged [Light]; Damage 8; Critical -; Range [Short] Blast 8, Disorient 3, Limited Ammo 1, Stun Damage), armored robes ( + 2 soak, + 1 defense), comlink

Ironarm [Nemesis]

B4 A3 I2 C3 W4 P1

S6 W22 St18 M2/R2

Skills: Athletics 5, Discipline 3, Leadership 2, Melee 5, Ranged [Light] 2, Resilience 5, Vigilance 2.
Adversary 1 [upgrade checks against this target once], Parry 6 [when struck by a melee attack but before applying soak, suffer 3 strain to reduce damage by 8].
Tactical Direction [may spend a maneuver to direct one Stormtrooper minion group within medium range. The group may perform an immediate free maneuver or add one boost to their next check]
Equipment: Balanced Reinforced vibrosword (Melee; Damage 7; Critical 2; Range [Engaged]; Accurate 2, Pierce 2, Vicious l, Cortosis), 2 frag grenades (Ranged [Light]; Damage 8; Critical4; Range [Medium]; Blast 6; Limited Ammo l), Cortosis Shield (Melee; Damage 4; Critical 6; Ranged [Engaged]; Cortosis, Cumbersome 3, Defensive 2, Deflection 2), Stormtrooper armor and cybernetic prosthesis [+ 2 soak], cybernetic arm, utility belt, extra reloads

Dalan Oberos [Nemesis]

*unchanged*

6 Stormtroopers

*unchanged*

I just noticed that Gel's force power is too low, it should be 3. Does anyone think that it would be a problem to have 3 Nemesis against the party? This will be the second to last real boss fight the PCs will have.

17 minutes ago, Idward said:

I just noticed that Gel's force power is too low, it should be 3. Does anyone think that it would be a problem to have 3 Nemesis against the party? This will be the second to last real boss fight the PCs will have.

For a 2nd to last boss fight, it may be too many. I guess it depends on what your boss fight is though. I typically have a lot higher minion to nemesis ratio than this encounter though. Big baddies usually have lots of flunkies. But that may just be me compensating for less nemesis.

4 hours ago, Edgookin said:

For a 2nd to last boss fight, it may be too many. I guess it depends on what your boss fight is though. I typically have a lot higher minion to nemesis ratio than this encounter though. Big baddies usually have lots of flunkies. But that may just be me compensating for less nemesis.

Well my idea is that all the bad people they fought along the way and just left behind or otherwise forced them to flee come back for a last fight (assuming the players kill them). I might even remove or reduce the minions in this case and just have three big bads.

If you roll despair when using a thermal detonator, it blows up before you throw it.

On 7/27/2017 at 2:56 PM, Idward said:

Question, can you use protect/unleash and the reflect talent for the same event?

Nothing disallows it, AFAIK. You're paying for both, so no reason not to allow it IMO.

On 7/27/2017 at 4:51 PM, Idward said:

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to handle PCs with man portable nukes?

Discourage them and also follow the description and RAW. If the PC is using the timer then your BBG has 1-3 Rounds to pick it up, by hand or with Move, and throw it away or move to a safe distance. If the PC has it set to detonate on impact then re-read the description and follow it (shout out to Edgookin for catching this as well).

From the description (emphasis mine):

Quote

Finally, thermal detonators are so potent that their Blast quality affects everyone and everything within short range of its intended target.

And what is the Range of the weapon? Short.
So that means the PC/NPC throwing it is in the Blast range .

BTW, I'm using the description in AoR pg180 and F&D pg171. The description in EotE pg165 is a little different but means the same thing:

Quote

Thermal detonators are so potent their Blast quality affects everyone within short range of the original target.

Also don't forget that Adversary applies because it's an attack, even if you are only trying to throw it near them so they get caught in the Blast radius (I follow the example of Auto Fire and Two-Weapon Combat so you don't get to meta this in my games, you are always attacking the strongest opponent that would be affected).