4 hours ago, xanderf said:

Once against tilting at the windmills of 'lore fails' in the game...

Man, large-base ships are way too maneuverable and responsive compared to TIE Fighters. Even the vaunted Millennium Falcon, in the movies, had TIE Fighters (literally) flying circles around it. This just never happens in this game, where large-base ships are zipping around the table and pouncing on small-base ships from behind. (Don't even get me started on Pt+EU Dash)

What if we just had two 'move+action' phases? Large ships move in PS order, like any other ship, but in a distinct phase before the small-base ships. IE., all large ships move+action first...then once all large ships have moved+actioned in order, the small-base ships move+action in order. Combat doesn't change.

(FWIW, this also has precedent - this is exactly how 'huge' ships are already handled. Playing in Epic, the game adds a distinct 'huge ship move+action' phase distinct from everyone else. The suggestion, here, would be to implement the same rule for 'large' base ships as 'huge' ships already use, just before rather than after.)

Thoughts?

No the problem is you whining about the game and crying so loud that now people are starting to take notice. Seriously go into hyperspace and never come back to this game ever again. Go away I don't want to see you.

5 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

No the problem is you whining about the game and crying so loud that now people are starting to take notice. Seriously go into hyperspace and never come back to this game ever again. Go away I don't want to see you.

A little harsh isn't it?

6 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

A little harsh isn't it?

Depends, but I may have let the FAQ leak get to me a little. Seriously if that is true you might as well go burn your pilot and upgrade cards. But then FFG should allow players to bring their own custom print pilot and upgrade cards as long as the text matches the most up to date errata from the FAQ.

But seriously, those calling for nerfs should just find a game they like more than X-wing. Don't like it, get out! That is a right I reserve and I may be taking my own advice. I did leave 40K after all and am still in the miniatures game hobby.

Most of my problem with large based ships is not with their movement but their agility. IMO freighters should have an agility of "0" or "1". It's hard to reconcile a JumpMaster being the equal of an X-wing, agility wise. I'd support an increase to hull and shields to compensate for the lower agility. As far as shuttles go, I view them as the livingroom sofa of space transport. Definitely a "0" agility.

BroBots are a different matter. IMO there shouldn't be red maneuvers on their dial. I doubt you'll ever see a robot "toss its cookies" from doing a K turn or Sloop. Not saying they are immune to stress, only stress from movements. Outside sources are fine.

That's my two cents. A minor irritation in an otherwise great game.

3 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Depends, but I may have let the FAQ leak get to me a little. Seriously if that is true you might as well go burn your pilot and upgrade cards. But then FFG should allow players to bring their own custom print pilot and upgrade cards as long as the text matches the most up to date errata from the FAQ.

But seriously, those calling for nerfs should just find a game they like more than X-wing. Don't like it, get out! That is a right I reserve and I may be taking my own advice. I did leave 40K after all and am still in the miniatures game hobby.

FAQ leak? Please expand on that.

4 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

FAQ leak? Please expand on that.

Okay, take all of your pilot cards for the Jumpmaster 5000, and rip & tear them all up into confetti. That pretty much sums it up if the leak to be true.

I hope not but if FFG sets a new precedent as indicated in the leak then well it is just like what happen when Hearthstone (a virtual medium) started to do some meta corrections that was reserved for print formats. It just Nerfed everything up, so I left Hearthstone.

2 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Okay, take all of your pilot cards for the Jumpmaster 5000, and rip & tear them all up into confetti. That pretty much sums it up if the leak to be true.

I hope not but if FFG sets a new precedent as indicated in the leak then well it is just like what happen when Hearthstone (a virtual medium) started to do some meta corrections that was reserved for print formats. It just Nerfed everything up, so I left Hearthstone.

Until it's in my hands, I ignore most leaks, rumors and FFG articles. There's no sense in getting torqued up over something that might be rumorware.

In the real world, look to see who gains by "leaking" info. In the digital world, look to see who the trolls are.

If things are as bad as your source seems to imply, play casual, keep the cards as house rules and don't worry about it. As individuals we can do nothing about it. As consumers there's a lot that can be done. If FFG does something reall drastic to tick off their player base I'm pretty sure FFG will know in short order and move to correct it.

Until we know more relax, breathe deeply and play the game you enjoy.

5 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

Until it's in my hands, I ignore most leaks, rumors and FFG articles. There's no sense in getting torqued up over something that might be rumorware.

In the real world, look to see who gains by "leaking" info. In the digital world, look to see who the trolls are.

If things are as bad as your source seems to imply, play casual, keep the cards as house rules and don't worry about it. As individuals we can do nothing about it. As consumers there's a lot that can be done. If FFG does something reall drastic to tick off their player base I'm pretty sure FFG will know in short order and move to correct it.

Until we know more relax, breathe deeply and play the game you enjoy.

YUP...

4 hours ago, Cr0aker said:

I liked best the suggestion that the strait boost should be like the barrel roll, template turned sideways. And the softs be placed to the left or right of the guides (depending on direction) to shorten the distance moved.

I heard this suggested in the Fat Han/Phantom Menace meta, and I absolutely loved it. I tried it on my table a few times, and it's so nice! large ships can still arc dodge, but it's by a more fair margin, in my opinion.

It still doesn't explain how a Shadowcaster can outrun a TIE interceptor. Then again, it does have really big engines.

7 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

I heard this suggested in the Fat Han/Phantom Menace meta, and I absolutely loved it. I tried it on my table a few times, and it's so nice! large ships can still arc dodge, but it's by a more fair margin, in my opinion.

It still doesn't explain how a Shadowcaster can outrun a TIE interceptor. Then again, it does have really big engines.

Not just the boost that's the problem (although I agree that is one of the more elegant solutions to help at least a little bit), though.

A large ship barrel roll is also pretty ridiculous - it can push the front of the template of a large-base ship farther back than an entire small-ship's base template. (Granted, not as bad as it was before the 'use the template sideways' rule came out - but it's still ridiculously powerful repositioning compared to small-base ships) Nevermind side-to-side...the distance from the left side of a large ship's base before a barrel roll to the right side AFTER a barrel roll is only a hair short of a TIE Interceptor flying 5-straight right across its path.

It's madness how maneuverable the 'large' base ships are compared to the 'small' bases.

And, more importantly, it really doesn't feel like the movies at all. Over and over we see the Falcon being chased around by TIE Fighters making firing passes at it and swinging off, and no indication it should be able to roll or boost or flip around in a way to get the drop on them. The closest we get to an Imperial going 'whoah, where did he go?' about the Falcon was the bridge crew of a STAR DESTROYER, which is just a little bit larger than a TIE Fighter...

37 minutes ago, xanderf said:

Not just the boost that's the problem (although I agree that is one of the more elegant solutions to help at least a little bit), though.

A large ship barrel roll is also pretty ridiculous - it can push the front of the template of a large-base ship farther back than an entire small-ship's base template. (Granted, not as bad as it was before the 'use the template sideways' rule came out - but it's still ridiculously powerful repositioning compared to small-base ships) Nevermind side-to-side...the distance from the left side of a large ship's base before a barrel roll to the right side AFTER a barrel roll is only a hair short of a TIE Interceptor flying 5-straight right across its path.

It's madness how maneuverable the 'large' base ships are compared to the 'small' bases.

And, more importantly, it really doesn't feel like the movies at all. Over and over we see the Falcon being chased around by TIE Fighters making firing passes at it and swinging off, and no indication it should be able to roll or boost or flip around in a way to get the drop on them. The closest we get to an Imperial going 'whoah, where did he go?' about the Falcon was the bridge crew of a STAR DESTROYER, which is just a little bit larger than a TIE Fighter...

1

Did you guys watch the movies?

https://youtu.be/8sarFZJl3h0

Looks pretty freaking maneuverable when it's in junk condition flown by a rookie pilot. Does an atmo K-turn to get around on the tie at the end to finish it.

https://youtu.be/KvJDItC6tE0

Maneuvers through the belt and all the ties fail to do so successfully.

I really don't think you guys actually watched the movies....

4 minutes ago, Icelom said:

Did you guys watch the movies?

https://youtu.be/8sarFZJl3h0

Looks pretty freaking maneuverable when it's in junk condition flown by a rookie pilot. Does an atmo K-turn to get around on the tie at the end to finish it.

https://youtu.be/KvJDItC6tE0

Maneuvers through the belt and all the ties fail to do so successfully.

I really don't think you guys actually watched the movies....

but it takes skill to hit your target while wearing your helmet.

These rebel scum have no skill shooting at what they can see!

Just now, Icelom said:

https://youtu.be/KvJDItC6tE0

Maneuvers through the belt and all the ties fail to do so successfully

Already made that point - clearly what the Falcon is doing, there, is causing the TIE Fighters to 'bump' and end up on asteroids (where it's true, their luck with the dice is looking pretty dire - that was, what, 4 crits for 4?)

Indeed, something only possible if it moved+actioned before them. And the question isn't the dial ('maneuvers through the belt') so much as the ability that higher PS gets it to react to enemy movements. Nobody is saying the Falcon isn't (preposterously) maneuverable - that's "fine" (it fits the movies, anyway). Rather, the question is its ability to react to enemy movements. I mean - in either of those clips, did the Falcon do anything, at any point, that looked like it took the fighters completely by surprise? IE., they were banking one way, but it suddenly barrel-rolled to the side and then boosted around and ended up behind them (like it could do in X-Wing?)

Not even a little bit! The closest way to describe what we see in those videos is that:

• The Falcon has a good dial (check), including a k-turn (check)
• Those particular Falcon pilots get 'shoot first' vs the TIEs they were facing, and (at least Rey) when able to anticipate their maneuvers can position in a way that makes a kill shot (again, this checks out with what we've already got in the game)
• It's very good at blocking Academy pilots and causing them to collide with each other/terrain (ummmmm....)

26 minutes ago, Icelom said:

Did you guys watch the movies?

https://youtu.be/8sarFZJl3h0

Looks pretty freaking maneuverable when it's in junk condition flown by a rookie pilot. Does an atmo K-turn to get around on the tie at the end to finish it.

https://youtu.be/KvJDItC6tE0

Maneuvers through the belt and all the ties fail to do so successfully.

I really don't think you guys actually watched the movies....

Ok, the Falcon with Han gets a 3 Agility. Two with Rey as pilot.

The movies are adventure stories of courage, hope, and grit overcoming impossible odds (balance is nowhere in sight). They are also fairly simple stories. Really, A New Hope feels like D&D in space sometimes. A wizard and a farm boy/lost-son-of-a-dark-lord walk into a tavern, a scared thug and his pet walking walrus confront them. The wizard rolls a D20...

The game attempts to be balanced and fun way to play dog fight in spazzzz while remaining engaging and continually growing. It's done a decent job for the most part.

There are parts that leave some of us wanting more. Blocking bothers me. You never see a ME-109 cause a Spitfire to stop mid fight. They'd juke wildly, shear a wing off each other, or explode spectacularly. Maverick and Goose weren't unable to finish their move when Iceman 'blocked' them, they stalled and crashed. However, every time I put my X-wing on it's peg and select some upgrades, I use the system that FFG came up with to 'strap in and light this candle'. Maybe someday, I'll have time to work up some homebrew rules for a merchant fourth faction and X-wing:tactical for squadron combat. Till then pass me the 8 sided red dice.

*redacted*

Another idea: large ships with 9 or more total health receive a stress token after performing a boost or barrel roll.

9 or more health so Brobots are unaffected. And the stress token idea is taken from Expert Handling.

Any ships this would unfairly hit? A future Firespray title could include an exemption from it. And they could create a new modification for turning shuttles around by disabling weapons or something.

Also, I would have liked to drop the large ship qualifier so it included the Scurrg, but the Punisher would get hit too. Maybe after the Punisher gets a massive buff to launch 2 ordnance per turn or something, with the exclusion of pilot abilities so Deathrain can carrying on Deathraining.