34 minutes ago, Crit Happens said:

Mindlink is still a budget PTL for a single ship, without being limited to greens. This is probably what the designers had in mind when designing the card. It's just no longer absurdly abusive for such a small price. It can probably still find play as 2 mindlinked ships + an independent ace (PTL Fenn).

It seems like a super harsh nerf, but remember how ludicrous the action economy is right now...

It's way worse than budget PTL at 2 ships. You get 1 extra token on 1 ship for using 2 EPT slots. Meaning the ship that isn't getting the token is basicallygiving up the benefit of HAVING an EPT slot at all, and if you're bringing a ship specifically for that (such as light scyk atanni inaldra), you're paying WAY more than PTL to get that free token

21 minutes ago, EdgeOfDreams said:

Cluster Mines covert crit results to regular damage. You got robbed by a player who didn't know they don't deal crits.

Is that a fact.. ? O:

Oh well.

Just now, VanderLegion said:

It's way worse than budget PTL at 2 ships. You get 1 extra token on 1 ship for using 2 EPT slots. Meaning the ship that isn't getting the token is basicallygiving up the benefit of HAVING an EPT slot at all, and if you're bringing a ship specifically for that (such as light scyk atanni inaldra), you're paying WAY more than PTL to get that free token

You also get tokens on bumps, tokens on red maneuvers, tokens on asteroids, etc. And the entire idea of taking a ship specifically to be a mindlink token battery was already kind of ridiculous.

8 minutes ago, hargleblarg said:

The disabled weapons is a tax for being able to perform a second maneuver. Being able to take an action on top of that is what you pay the 2 points for.

If anything, bomb dropping is more an art than ever. Advanced slam bombs are absurdly easy to land; having to drop bombs where you expect the opponent will fly as opposed to where they currently are takes much more skill. And besides, the pilot abilities on Deathfire, Sol Sixxa, and Emon are much more relevant now that they aren't completely outclassed by advanced slam.

Yeah and with bomblets, droping a bomb is now almost the equivalent of attacking (in term of end result, 2 TLT shots vs 2 bomb dmg+Sabine...) when you SLAM.

2 minutes ago, Kalandros said:

Is that a fact.. ? O:

Oh well.

Yes, it's a fact. It's in the FAQ on Page 2, IIRC.

Mindlink would be fine if it had a cost increase for each additional Mindlink in your squad. First one is 1 point, second is 2 points the third is 3 points and so on. That's the cost of getting 2 PTLs in a list, it is essentially giving 2 extra actions, but isn't as flexible with those actions. It is taking 3 EPTs, trading for no stress on the extra actions and tokens on bump, but it still has the stress downside.

2 minutes ago, hargleblarg said:

You also get tokens on bumps, tokens on red maneuvers, tokens on asteroids, etc. And the entire idea of taking a ship specifically to be a mindlink token battery was already kind of ridiculous.

It could still make sense on Manaroo and/or Palob, where you can maximize the the efficiency.

2 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

It's way worse than budget PTL at 2 ships. You get 1 extra token on 1 ship for using 2 EPT slots. Meaning the ship that isn't getting the token is basicallygiving up the benefit of HAVING an EPT slot at all, and if you're bringing a ship specifically for that (such as light scyk atanni inaldra), you're paying WAY more than PTL to get that free token

I didn't say you should be bringing a focus factory ship that flies in circles. That's doing it wrong. I also didn't say it was budget PTL for 2 ships. I said it was budget PTL for a single ship.

Consider two Attani mindlinked scouts and PTL Fenn. Those scouts can each do work on their own, and SHOULD both be in the fray. Fenn is also now an end game ace, where he wasn't with mindlink. Is this still a top tier squad? Probably not, but is it playable, and could it be competitive? I think so.

Just now, Thormind said:

Yeah and with bomblets, droping a bomb is now almost the equivalent of attacking (in term of end result, 2 TLT shots vs 2 bomb dmg+Sabine...) when you SLAM.

Bomblets, or any other on reveal bomb for that matter, don't work with SLAM. You drop on reveal and the SLAM maneuver while counting as executing a maneuver is simply chosen and so does not reveal a dial

14 minutes ago, codegnave said:

A better(imo) solution to mindlink dominance would be giving easily doled out stress to rebels and imperials. Shutting down options for a ship like Fenn, he quickly loses much of his potency. Double stressing manaroo(or other token mule) then shuts down mindlik/manaroo's benefit on fenn for more than one turn.

I want to see an FAQ that changes Flechette Torpedoes from:

"After you perform this attack, the defender receives 1 stress token if its hull value is "4" or lower."

to:

"After you perform this attack, the defender receives 1 stress token."

That would do a whole lot to help against ships with 5 million greens and self stress mechanics. Not to mention giving ships with only 1 Torpedo slot a reason to equip a Torpedo.

And I think the Flechette Cannon should be changed as well. From:

"If this attack hits, the defender suffers 1 damage and, if the defender is not stressed, it also receives 1 stress token. Then cancel all dice results."

To:

"If this attack hits, the defender suffers 1 damage and, if the defender has fewer than 2 stress tokens, it also receives 1 stress token. Then cancel all dice results."

These weapons have both been unused since they landed, and a big part of that is the limitations. The Flechette Torpedo is basically useless against lists with only Large ships. And the Flechette Cannon is useless against ships that start most combat rounds with a stress token- which are the ships I most want to deal a stress token _to_. Loosening those restrictions a bit would be enormously helpful.

17 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

There is no evidence that Mindlink is broken outside of JM5K lists.

I don't know... Palob/old Teroch, Fenn, Asajj is pretty devastating... as would any list that has 3+ good ships with really strong greens. I think the attani nerf is one of the best.

jumpmaster nerf seems... ok. I'm not sold. It's still really cheap with a phenomenal dial. Let's see if it holds up.

Adv Slam nerf is a nightmare only because it erases that card. If someone can explain how it has any valuable use now for 2 points, im all ears.

wish there were, at the very least, small tweaks to Biggs and tlt, especially since Biggs is ludicrous speed crazy at the moment.

3 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:

I want to see an FAQ that changes Flechette Torpedoes from:

"After you perform this attack, the defender receives 1 stress token if its hull value is "4" or lower."

to:

"After you perform this attack, the defender receives 1 stress token."

"This post brought to you by the Nera Dantels Appreciation Society"

I would love this change, personally!

10 minutes ago, Crit Happens said:

I didn't say you should be bringing a focus factory ship that flies in circles. That's doing it wrong. I also didn't say it was budget PTL for 2 ships. I said it was budget PTL for a single ship.

Consider two Attani mindlinked scouts and PTL Fenn. Those scouts can each do work on their own, and SHOULD both be in the fray. Fenn is also now an end game ace, where he wasn't with mindlink. Is this still a top tier squad? Probably not, but is it playable, and could it be competitive? I think so.

I know you didn't say to just bring a focus factory ship. but it's what some people will do (and already are doing in inaldra/fenn/dengar). And yes, it's budget PTL for a single ship. And I was pointing out that it saves 1 point and the other ship is basically flying without an EPT, meaning they're weaker than they would otherwise be.

4 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

I don't know... Palob/old Teroch, Fenn, Asajj is pretty devastating... as would any list that has 3+ good ships with really strong greens. I think the attani nerf is one of the best.

jumpmaster nerf seems... ok. I'm not sold. It's still really cheap with a phenomenal dial. Let's see if it holds up.

Adv Slam nerf is a nightmare only because it erases that card. If someone can explain how it has any valuable use now for 2 points, im all ears.

wish there were, at the very least, small tweaks to Biggs and tlt, especially since Biggs is ludicrous speed crazy at the moment.

Advanced slams to feed Rey crew? Mindlink probably has to be nerfed eventually, it was warping the game too much. However, I cannot be the only one noticing ML is basically being erased by the biggs list, and not doing well against all the new bombers+dash lists. In the long run, nerfing all of them works for me, but the powercreep feels more obvious now.

Just now, Kdubb said:

I don't know... Palob/old Teroch, Fenn, Asajj is pretty devastating... as would any list that has 3+ good ships with really strong greens. I think the attani nerf is one of the best.

It's going to disappear ... right along with AdvSLAM. In both cases, of course, it's the easiest possible change. Which, if this is genuine, is exactly what we should have expected from FFG.

Quote

jumpmaster nerf seems... ok. I'm not sold. It's still really cheap with a phenomenal dial. Let's see if it holds up.

Oh, this one will take, I think.

Quote

Adv Slam nerf is a nightmare only because it erases that card. If someone can explain how it has any valuable use now for 2 points, in all ears.

"Easiest possible change." It doesn't matter if it's terrible. It's a change, it's easy, so FFG's all over it.

Quote

wish there were, at the very least, small tweaks to Biggs and tlt, especially since Biggs is ludicrous speed crazy at the moment.

Yep. (Ships at range 1 of Biggs get +1 green. Still strong. Still worth taking. No longer broken. And ships designed with Biggs being strong can stay designed that way.)

1 minute ago, Jeff Wilder said:

It's going to disappear ... right along with AdvSLAM. In both cases, of course, it's the easiest possible change. Which, if this is genuine, is exactly what we should have expected from FFG.

Oh, this one will take, I think.

"Easiest possible change." It doesn't matter if it's terrible. It's a change, it's easy, so FFG's all over it.

Yep. (Ships at range 1 of Biggs get +1 green. Still strong. Still worth taking. No longer broken. And ships designed with Biggs being strong can stay designed that way.)

For that biggs change, it's basically just serissu's ability (slightly better since it gives the potential for an extra evade vs just rerolling an existing non-evade. But unless you roll all evades - and eyeballs if you have a focus - it's the same net effect). I'd probably even be happy to make biggs just give ships at range 1 a free evade result.

31 minutes ago, codegnave said:

Making the vaksai title not affect EVERY upgrade equiped would make more sense for the "free mindlink" problem [...]

In my mind, the problem with Mindlink isn't the cost or power, so much as how many ships Scum have that can easily she'd stress. A pair of Mindlink Kihraxz are fine- they're going to be hanging onto stress for a while, or else they'll be super predictable.

And Mindlink Y-Wings?! Lol. (Forget about Overclocked R4, or how little Y-Wings need action efficiency).

I am a little sad that Epic lists with 8 Mindlink Tansarii Point Veteran with Mango Cannons can't be a thing.

I think this thread having not been nuked by a mod may be an indication as to the veracity of this leak

5 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

I know you didn't say to just bring a focus factory ship. but it's what some people will do (and already are doing in inaldra/fenn/dengar) . And yes, it's budget PTL for a single ship. And I was pointing out that it saves 1 point and the other ship is basically flying without an EPT, meaning they're weaker than they would otherwise be.

They're doing that now because of how absurd the action economy is. If they do this post-nerf, it just shows how inflexible that player is in their thinking, and they won't try it more than once.

The flexibility of deciding which ship is getting that extra action is where it makes up for having the other give up that EPT though. There has to be some upside and downside for cards this cheap. It probably wont see much play, but moreso because of over-reaction than because it's gone too far.

33 minutes ago, smccaughan said:

Could this all be a ploy by someone that wants to win a SC so bad that they drop this tidbit in the hopes that people will change their lists based upon this info for the upcoming SC's that are left? Possibly even in the hopes that this will have an impact on the North American and US championships.

Theory: Lucas is so busy with Force Friday 2 that they have not had time to approve the new FAQ. Thus FFG themselves have leaked the FAQ to give the player base a heads up.

I played against fantastic list on Sunday (comprising four Mindlinked Mangler Scyks). It drove me insane; it was a thing of beauty, especially against Fair and Balanced.

So much for that good, non-broken, list and all the ones like it.

Looks, again, maybe Mindlink is broken. All I'm saying is to get evidence of that absent definitely-broken JM5Ks.

7 minutes ago, sploosh said:

Advanced slams to feed Rey crew? Mindlink probably has to be nerfed eventually, it was warping the game too much. However, I cannot be the only one noticing ML is basically being erased by the biggs list, and not doing well against all the new bombers+dash lists. In the long run, nerfing all of them works for me, but the powercreep feels more obvious now.

Ya it seems extremely odd Biggs isn't mentioned at all. I do think it is too early though to say for sure these new wave 11 creations are major problems before the anti meta has had time to form.

But along with Biggs, what about Fenn? Fenn may have been officially put in his place by Nym, but that is really precarious if you are expecting one pilot to continue to be relevant enough to keep infinite prockets from continuing to wreck the game. Fenn was probably more of an issue than jumps were, but the mindlink nerf may have put him only slightly above the power curve instead of miles over it. I still think he will be in a ton of scum lists, but paying 3 points and constant stress for action efficiency is much better than 1 point and sometimes stress for a constant focus and usually an additional action.

10 minutes ago, Audio Weasel said:

I think this thread having not been nuked by a mod may be an indication as to the veracity of this leak

As a naysayer to this being an accurate final leak, I don't think this should be looked at as evidence. Coverups of easily accessible internet files are, I think, not done by savvy corporations.

That, and how terribly moderated these forums are, would put me off this line of thought.

15 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

For that biggs change, it's basically just serissu's ability (slightly better since it gives the potential for an extra evade vs just rerolling an existing non-evade. But unless you roll all evades - and eyeballs if you have a focus - it's the same net effect). I'd probably even be happy to make biggs just give ships at range 1 a free evade result.

Biggs/Rex lists would like a word with you about how much they love you.

11 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

Ya it seems extremely odd Biggs isn't mentioned at all. I do think it is too early though to say for sure these new wave 11 creations are major problems before the anti meta has had time to form.

But along with Biggs, what about Fenn? Fenn may have been officially put in his place by Nym, but that is really precarious if you are expecting one pilot to continue to be relevant enough to keep infinite prockets from continuing to wreck the game. Fenn was probably more of an issue than jumps were, but the mindlink nerf may have put him only slightly above the power curve instead of miles over it. I still think he will be in a ton of scum lists, but paying 3 points and constant stress for action efficiency is much better than 1 point and sometimes stress for a constant focus and usually an additional action.

Fenn *with mindlink* was the issue though. Doesn't matter if you block him or he does red moves, he's still got his tokens. With the mindlink change, he's probably more likely to show up with PTL if you run him, which makes him much easier to play around