2 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

people dont like crackshot because its a one-off, even if its crazy good.

Theyre fixated on what crackswarms did, which just cancelled your defense to kill you outright on the alpha. Nobody except a crackswarm can actually do that though unless you get REALLY lucky.
Crackshot is best saved for when you can either push a crit through (not hitting shields) or can kill the ship. Gotten tons of value out of it that way.

exactly why we should put it back to the attacker modifies defender dice step.

2 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

exactly why we should put it back to the attacker modifies defender dice step.

It was never in the modify dice step, unless there was a faq saying so prior to the current one i dont know about.

The card itself doesnt have a time window. We are just used to everything being in the usual modify dice steps, but cancelling has NEVER been a mod so long as its during the "attacking" window, which compare results is a part of, it could be used.

24 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

It was never in the modify dice step, unless there was a faq saying so prior to the current one i dont know about.

The card itself doesnt have a time window. We are just used to everything being in the usual modify dice steps, but cancelling has NEVER been a mod so long as its during the "attacking" window, which compare results is a part of, it could be used.

Before they created the "results" that would be exactly where crackshot would have triggered, right after Defender rolled the green dice but before defender modified green dice spending tokens and such. However that would have sucked so FFG errata it to the Compare Results section. That is why you see Crack Shot in the Errata section in the front of the F.A.Q and not in the middle in the F.A.Q. (clarifications).

As for my last post I was being sarcastic hence the " " emote. But back on to erratas this type of errata I am perfectly okay with because it is a working as intended errata. They wanted an upgrade to cut through the auto evade and magic green die defense and leaving it in the traditional step wouldn't accomplish that and would likely burn the card and not the defense tokens or once-per-round mod. It doesn't drastically change the way you read the card and for the most part keeps it the same, unlike many of the proposed erratas and the last batch of balance erratas .

11 hours ago, AlexW said:

I understsnd Dengar's role in the squad, but what I'm saying is that Dengar has seen success in a variety of builds, not all of which include Mindlink. His ability is good enough that you don't need the infinite focus to make him worthwhile.

I just miss Dengaroo... ?

Dengar also isnt the ultimate cheese the scout or old manaroo was. He can be dealt with, in fact with the exception of when he was paired with Manaroo i dont really have any issues with him.

Its the 3 scouts or 2scouts + Fenn that give me problems because they both have the insane firepower AND durability on their side, of course fed by attani. I've faced both Dengar+Nym, Dengar+Fenn, and Dengar+Tel numerous times and it never once felt like it was heavily in their favor by default.

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

Before they created the "results" that would be exactly where crackshot would have triggered, right after Defender rolled the green dice but before defender modified green dice spending tokens and such. However that would have sucked so FFG errata it to the Compare Results section. That is why you see Crack Shot in the Errata section in the front of the F.A.Q and not in the middle in the F.A.Q. (clarifications).

As for my last post I was being sarcastic hence the " " emote. But back on to erratas this type of errata I am perfectly okay with because it is a working as intended errata. They wanted an upgrade to cut through the auto evade and magic green die defense and leaving it in the traditional step wouldn't accomplish that and would likely burn the card and not the defense tokens or once-per-round mod. It doesn't drastically change the way you read the card and for the most part keeps it the same, unlike many of the proposed erratas and the last batch of balance erratas .

This situation just reinforces how beneficial it would be for them (and us) to design language templates and timing keys on the cards.

Imagine if in the corner of any timing relevant card it said exactly when it triggered (example: Combat phase 1a, 1b, 1c etc.)

Not only would this result in fewer mistakes requiring day 1 FAQs (that don't come out on day 1) since the designers would be forced to carefully consider exactly when they want it to trigger. But if the card does require a timing change for whatever reason, it would be very easy to errata the card to say 2c instead of 2b, rather than rewrite sections of the card text.

The timing flow chart is an aesthetically pleasing and helpful tool, but it's impractical to use mid-game in a timed format. It would be very handy if the cards themselves contained the necessary information.

3 minutes ago, Sekac said:

This situation just reinforces how beneficial it would be for them (and us) to design language templates and timing keys on the cards.

Imagine if in the corner of any timing relevant card it said exactly when it triggered (example: Combat phase 1a, 1b, 1c etc.)

Not only would this result in fewer mistakes requiring day 1 FAQs (that don't come out on day 1) since the designers would be forced to carefully consider exactly when they want it to trigger. But if the card does require a timing change for whatever reason, it would be very easy to errata the card to say 2c instead of 2b, rather than rewrite sections of the card text.

The timing flow chart is an aesthetically pleasing and helpful tool, but it's impractical to use mid-game in a timed format. It would be very handy if the cards themselves contained the necessary information.

Even a small text on the side of the card would be useful.

15 minutes ago, Sekac said:

This situation just reinforces how beneficial it would be for them (and us) to design language templates and timing keys on the cards.

Imagine if in the corner of any timing relevant card it said exactly when it triggered (example: Combat phase 1a, 1b, 1c etc.)

Not only would this result in fewer mistakes requiring day 1 FAQs (that don't come out on day 1) since the designers would be forced to carefully consider exactly when they want it to trigger. But if the card does require a timing change for whatever reason, it would be very easy to errata the card to say 2c instead of 2b, rather than rewrite sections of the card text.

The timing flow chart is an aesthetically pleasing and helpful tool, but it's impractical to use mid-game in a timed format. It would be very handy if the cards themselves contained the necessary information.

Timing flow chart is no problem. It is when the print cards start to change. You at least have a central source to go and see things as they are updated. The distributed cards have no such procedure for erratas.

On 7/27/2017 at 9:21 AM, xanderf said:

Well:

1) Nope, don't believe it. First and foremost, the only way someone could get at this is as a playtester. The whole point of playtesting is to get multiple points of data to measure the impact of a change, so almost certainly not all playtesters have the same set of changes to work from. IE., revealing the rules YOU have is also likely revealing your identity (or at least down to the groups testing that set of changes), meaning you are about to get your NDA revoked and can never work for FFG again. Who would do that?

2) Too much, and at this point, is anyone still flying SaltMasters? The last nerfs did them in pretty bad - it's all about the Scurrg, now, as well as the continuing Biggs menace...

What I heard is that the playtesters were leaking these things to their close friends to help them better playtest for big events, which was creating an elite circle within the community that had access to this information ahead of time to playtest with and gain an advantage. The person who posted the leak seems to value fairness over their privilege as a playtester, which I think is admiral and not puzzling at all. They could even just be a whistleblower who received the leak from a non playtester and didn't like the idea that he or she was getting an information advantage over other players.

49 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

What I heard is that the playtesters were leaking these things to their close friends to help them better playtest for big events, which was creating an elite circle within the community that had access to this information ahead of time to playtest with and gain an advantage. The person who posted the leak seems to value fairness over their privilege as a playtester, which I think is admiral and not puzzling at all. They could even just be a whistleblower who received the leak from a non playtester and didn't like the idea that he or she was getting an information advantage over other players.

I wish this was being discussed more. As well as the idea mentioned earlier (and in other threads), that perhaps some overpowered combos were being purposely left in the game so they could be "discovered" later.

I'm sure the suggestion of such a lack of integrity will make some angry. On the other hand, to pretend that this isn't a factor is ostrich-level head-in-the-sand syndrome.

3 hours ago, Marinealver said:

..back on to erratas...and the last batch of balance erratas .

What's erratas, Precious, what's erratas?!

(*Gollum! Gollum!*)

You know, Gollum is the only character I know with a habit of making plural words even more plural, 'hobbitses', etc.)

1 minute ago, Verlaine said:

What's erratas, Precious, what's erratas?!

(*Gollum! Gollum!*)

You know, Gollum is the only character I know with a habit of making plural words even more plural, 'hobbitses', etc.)

Got me, but yeah it is easy to get confused because the singular form erratum isn't that common. Errata is often treated as both.

57 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

What I heard is that the playtesters were leaking these things to their close friends to help them better playtest for big events, which was creating an elite circle within the community that had access to this information ahead of time to playtest with and gain an advantage.

9 minutes ago, serrate said:

perhaps some overpowered combos were being purposely left in the game so they could be "discovered" later.

I never saw any evidence of any of this, even once. That's not the same thing as saying it never happened -- I'm not omniscient -- and it isn't the same as saying things haven't changed -- perhaps they have -- but every playtester I saw, whatever our differences about the game, was there to make the game better, whatever that meant to them.

I'm about as far from a Kumbaya-singin' everything-is-awesome kinda sumbitch as you could ever know, so take this for what it's worth. All I know for sure is that speculating about it is worthless for anything but getting pissed off about something that you can't do a thing about ... if it even exists.

overall I think public testing is a great process so long as you make it very very clear what is for testing and what is real.

A bad example would be the long death of 40K 3rd edition where things got entirely too confusing.

A great example would be warmachine second edition. public revamp of everything in the game got a massive system to a playable state in under a year.

no company or designer is obligated to test their games any particular way but you can certainly do worse than an open playtest.

After all of the pontificating and what-not, has anyone had the gall to say whether this is real or not? Someone knows, right? And I just missed it in the 18-page roast of Dengar this has become...

Having been on the pointy end of the playtester with prior knowledge beating (poking) stick... it's just silly. New errata that they have known for months drops and they come and sweep a tournament is the worst NPE. I left the last game immediately after that happened to me at a regional qualifier.

You want the best playtesters possible so of course you want the best in the world. But are they the best because they are or because of special friends circles? If you playtest you shouldn't be able to compete at all levels.

I hope the Errata is true, there is more of it, and hope that FFG makes a solid decision regarding it. Since they've been silent on the matter, I hope they are giving it some real time.

11 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

After all of the pontificating and what-not, has anyone had the gall to say whether this is real or not? Someone knows, right? And I just missed it in the 18-page roast of Dengar this has become...

Nope. No word. No developments.

9 minutes ago, Rakky Wistol said:

Having been on the pointy end of the playtester with prior knowledge beating (poking) stick... it's just silly. New errata that they have known for months drops and they come and sweep a tournament is the worst NPE. I left the last game immediately after that happened to me at a regional qualifier.

You want the best playtesters possible so of course you want the best in the world. But are they the best because they are or because of special friends circles? If you playtest you shouldn't be able to compete at all levels.

I hope the Errata is true, there is more of it, and hope that FFG makes a solid decision regarding it. Since they've been silent on the matter, I hope they are giving it some real time.

I'm with this guy.

Either do open playtesting for everyone or lock the playtest group out of all competitive events.

But the sticky thing isn't even the playtest group.its the leakiness to their inner circles.i can't imagine any way to solve that without just making the testing public.

Well...there is a way..... eliminate the competitive events.

Just let the stores and the communities do whatever tournaments they want.youll get all the variety of the different formats that way. **** even epic could happen more.

3 hours ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

After all of the pontificating and what-not, has anyone had the gall to say whether this is real or not? Someone knows, right? And I just missed it in the 18-page roast of Dengar this has become...

On Reddit several known playtesters got really worked up over this (asked for it to be taken down, asked for NDA breaches to be reported to FFG etc.).

In my view that's as good as saying 'yes, this is real'. If this was just a troll there would be no reason for the real playtesters to get worked up over it.

However, the fact that it's real doesn't mean it's also final. AFAIK there is no indication if these changes are coming from a finalized FAQ, a first draft undergoing playtest or anything in between.

So, you only want the worst players to playtest. That sounds reasonable and not at all sour grapes.

25 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

On Reddit several known playtesters got really worked up over this (asked for it to be taken down, asked for NDA breaches to be reported to FFG etc.).

In my view that's as good as saying 'yes, this is real'. If this was just a troll there would be no reason for the real playtesters to get worked up over it.

However, the fact that it's real doesn't mean it's also final. AFAIK there is no indication if these changes are coming from a finalized FAQ, a first draft undergoing playtest or anything in between.

That's pretty convincing, imo. But as you say - it certainly isn't' over.

Right before Nationals, too.. lol

27 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

That's pretty convincing, imo. But as you say - it certainly isn't' over.

Right before Nationals, too.. lol

Yea that's the crazy bit, if these changes are "needed", the FAQ needs to drop immediately. Otoh, that potentially screws over many players who's lists would then be illegal. It's a pretty impossible situation for FFG at this point.

4 hours ago, Velvetelvis said:

Either do open playtesting for everyone or lock the playtest group out of all competitive events.

But the sticky thing isn't even the playtest group.its the leakiness to their inner circles.i can't imagine any way to solve that without just making the testing public.

Well...there is a way..... eliminate the competitive events.

I don't see elimination of competitive events happening - THOSE are really what turn out the numbers that let the game pull ahead of WH40K in sales.

Don't knock competitive events - they are the reason the game has existed as long as it has.

As to playtesters leaving 'broken' stuff in the game to exploit later...wish I could say I hadn't seen things like that happening. But when acrylics or dice sets from regionals or worlds are blowing past $200-$300 a pop on eBay, and with no restriction on how many regionals players can enter you could manage with a 'broken list' that 'somehow' got through playtesting to arrange a few $K profit for yourself and your group...

Yeah, it's changing my mind on the value of public playtesting. The current group of playtesters FFG has...are not great.

And once again, public playtesting is just not possible with LFL involved. If you have to add the complication of getting LFL approval for every single iteration of something you want tested? You are adding a significant amount of time to your limited window of playtesting. Not to mention the stuff that CAN'T be public, due to spoilers for the upcoming movies. No matter how you try to hide the information, that will still be on lock down. And then you add in that the game is big enough, that open playtesting is just not viable to weed out the bad feedback.

And if you have an issue with how you feel playtesting is being handled (which is bull), then try to sign up for yourself.

FFG should do what other big competitive game companies do and hire playtesters with significant tournament credentials so they have more control over them while still offering incentives to playtest. It's much easier to ask someone to abstain from large events when you're offering them a job.

But I gather FFG is cheap and that Asmodee money is somehow hard to get to.

1 hour ago, Sithborg said:

And once again, public playtesting is just not possible with LFL involved. If you have to add the complication of getting LFL approval for every single iteration of something you want tested? You are adding a significant amount of time to your limited window of playtesting. Not to mention the stuff that CAN'T be public, due to spoilers for the upcoming movies. No matter how you try to hide the information, that will still be on lock down.

And has been discussed a few times, that's really just not a factor.

Even assuming playtesters are clever enough to compare stats on 'Generic Ship A' they are testing - what possible kind of spoiler would it be to know that FFG is testing a new T-70 pilot '2017-08-01 Rebel pilot 2 version B' with a specific ability, and testing alongside '2017-07-25 EPT 4 version C'?

LFL couldn't possible care, as long as character names, settings, story details, etc aren't spoiled. And they obviously wouldn't be, because playtesters don't need to know that .