1 minute ago, Rakaydos said:

Errata is being able to curve your bullets onto the target, making up for a lack of precision when you originally fired them off.

yeah but this isn't errata, this is reprinting.

You are using C4, there will be collateral damage.

1 minute ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I don't want to start a new topic for this, because it's silly, but what if ...

Mindlink buffed (or stressed) every ship on the table with Mindlink. "If an enemy ship already has a Focus token, it is instead assigned an Evade token, unless it already has one."

It's going quite a bit beyond the lore.

Instead they brought it back to Dengar and his wife Manaru.

Just now, Marinealver said:

yeah but this isn't errata, this is reprinting.

You are using C4, there will be collateral damage.

How is this any different than what happened to Heavy Scyk, x7 defender, Zuckuss or Palpatine?

Just now, Rakaydos said:

It's going quite a bit beyond the lore.

That's fair. I know almost nothing beyond the movies, the first Thrawn trilogy, and the new comics.

I mostly think it would be an interesting self-limiting mechanic. It gets less useful the more powerful and popular it becomes.

Krayts are right. It's not Mindlink, it's some of the platforms it can go on. Like the Shadowcaster, Fenn Rau, and Jumpmaster.

Mindlink makes it such that Sycks (real Sycks, not running away with Inaldra all game), HWKs, and even Starvipers are (barely) playable.

Mindlink wasn't a problem until the Lancer and Protectorate came out. Mindlink ONLY on the Jumpmaster is just okay.

That's the reason Mindlink wasn't used when it first came out. The only decent platform for it at the time was triple Scouts, and Deadeye was clearly better on them.

To further drive the Krayt's point home, look at all of the successful Scum lists that DON'T have Mindlink in them, it's still Jumpmasters, Shadowcasters, and Fenn Rau with the occasional Bossk. It's still these platforms at the top when Mindlink isn't used.

Mindlink isn't the problem, it's some of these ships that can carry it.

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

but those aren't official FFG cards so they are not allowed in tournaments . Catch-22 my friend. Catch-22.

The updated errata cards would be in the FAQ, and the FAQ is something you are allowed to have in tournaments. I'm not aware of any rule that prevents you from cutting up the FAQ into little card sized pieces, but I've been wrong before. You do need to have the actual cards with you to use them of course.

14 minutes ago, SaltMaster 5000 said:

To further drive the Krayt's point home, look at all of the successful Scum lists that DON'T have Mindlink in them, it's still Jumpmasters, Shadowcasters, and Fenn Rau with the occasional Bossk. It's still these platforms at the top when Mindlink isn't used.

Mindlink isn't the problem, it's some of these ships that can carry it.

Easy fix then. Keep Mindlink the same. Nerf all the scum-only ships into oblivion.

16 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

That's the thing how can you have balance without consistency. One keeps the scales from dramatically shifting, and the other just tells you how far off the balance is. It is like Accuracy and precision. If you don't have precision then it doesn't matter if you hit target on 1 of your shots when the other 9 are off the chart. Now put 9 out of 10 in the black with only a little bit of variance and that is better and you have a margin of error so you know where to work with.

The concepts are not really like accuracy and precision, it's a very flawed comparison largely because you're assuming a static target. The reality is that the meta, and therefore the balance target, is constantly changing due to newly released waves. You're effectively demanding that the gun never move. Even that is a strained and overly simplistic metaphor.

Some consistency is absolutely desirable, because otherwise you have nothing to ground your comparisons. But too much consistency can, as we have seen first hand, wall you off into a design corner where old mistakes create intractable problems.

Actually makes a lot of sense to tie things like the astromech, illicit etc. to Dengars Punishing One . If I remember correctly his ship was modified to accommodate a astromech that also controlled the turret and shooting at enemy ships so Dengar could concentrate on flying. This implies then that other Jumpmasters did not naturally have astromechs or the ability to integrate them into the ship.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Punishing_One

Dengar modified the Punishing One to use a cutting-edge engine bay and armed the ship with a mini- ion cannon and proton torpedo launcher. He also modified a quad- blaster cannon to operate using an R2-series astromech droid built into the ship as a gunner, leaving him free to concentrate on flying. The increased sublight speed and weapons system gave Punishing One the punch it needed to handle any threats in realspace rather than relying on its slow Class 3 hyperdrive .

The wookiepedia article also makes it sound like a turret was not naturally on the Jumpmaster so maybe they could tie that to the title too and everyone can rejoice in the downfall of the Jumpmasters except Punishing One .

24 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

How is this any different than what happened to Heavy Scyk, x7 defender, Zuckuss or Palpatine?

Not much but there were parts of the pilot and upgrade cards you can trust to be sustainable. The squad building part, an intricate aspect of the game. Academy pilots cost 12 points and had no upgrades save a modification slot and a title if one were to come available. X-wing can take torpedoes and A-wings can take missile upgrades. Sure you would still need the FAQ to know that x7 is now a free action and not a free token (and you can argue that was a working as intended change not a balance one) but you knew that x-7 discarded all slots in your upgrade bar to drop the point cost by 2.

If now point cost, and upgrades can be change, well everything can be changed. Besides if you have the model then why do you even need the cards if what ever was printed on them no longer relevant? Answer is no but because they are required then that is essential.

FFG can do the whole errata and change what ever they want throwing consistency out the window if they make accommodations in their current OP requirements for competitive standards. Allowing for printouts in place of required pilot and upgrade cards is a start, or make an official app to be used in place of said pilot and upgrade cards. However, FFG has done nothing to indicate that said accommodations are going to come up with these rumored changes.

But again that's really what all this is right now, rumors . If these aren't the changes then congratulations to the troll that posted it. That person just recieved Obi Wan Ghost levels of trolling.

But if this is to be true, then it is poorly conceived, a mere kneejerk reaction to bad design decisions previously made, and will do more harm than good. Such measures is begging for 2nd Ed to come out and come out fast.

14 minutes ago, Hawkstrike said:

Easy fix then. Keep Mindlink the same. Nerf all the scum-only ships into oblivion.

I think Fenn and Asajj could be taken down a little, as could Dengar.

But it's irrelevant now because of wave 11 BS.

7 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Not much but there were parts of the pilot and upgrade cards you can trust to be sustainable. The squad building part, an intricate aspect of the game. Academy pilots cost 12 points and had no upgrades save a modification slot and a title if one were to come available. X-wing can take torpedoes and A-wings can take missile upgrades. Sure you would still need the FAQ to know that x7 is now a free action and not a free token (and you can argue that was a working as intended change not a balance one) but you knew that x-7 discarded all slots in your upgrade bar to drop the point cost by 2.

If now point cost, and upgrades can be change, well everything can be changed. Besides if you have the model then why do you even need the cards if what ever was printed on them no longer relevant? Answer is no but because they are required then that is essential.

FFG can do the whole errata and change what ever they want throwing consistency out the window if they make accommodations in their current OP requirements for competitive standards. Allowing for printouts in place of required pilot and upgrade cards is a start, or make an official app to be used in place of said pilot and upgrade cards. However, FFG has done nothing to indicate that said accommodations are going to come up with these rumored changes.

But again that's really what all this is right now, rumors . If these aren't the changes then congratulations to the troll that posted it. That person just recieved Obi Wan Ghost levels of trolling.

But if this is to be true, then it is poorly conceived, a mere kneejerk reaction to bad design decisions previously made, and will do more harm than good. Such measures is begging for 2nd Ed to come out and come out fast.

I don't see anything about point cost changes in this FAQ rumor.

FFG already tried to reign in the JM5K several times with relatively minor card text nerfs, and it never worked. More of the same tactic would undoubtedly have given the same result. So with consistency already a proven failure, they either can accept the JM5K remaining unbalanced for the life of the game, or as you say throw consistency out the window to finally address the problem in a manner that doesn't fail yet again.

I'm not sure why you're so hung up on not having the correct card text on the cards. Print out the FAQ. We don't need players glued to their phones flipping through some official FFG app during their matches. I don't see how it is so hard to remember the updated text of your own squad, and letting people bring printouts of updated cards doesn't help at all with your opponent's squad on the off chance he has the memory capacity to remember his own squad well enough to not need to print them out himself.

Some card games have changed cards before. Yu-Gi-Oh! for example has reprinted cards that were considered too powerful in the past (and banned) so that they could be used once more. It is just always assumed you're using the latest version of a card in a tournament and they get re-released in new packs so people can get them. This has never caused an issue since everyone who wants to play competitively has to keep up with banlist updates and stuff... Though they do have the advantage of releasing a card-only product.

16 minutes ago, Joe Censored said:

... We don't need players glued to their phones flipping through some official FFG app during their matches. ...

You just contradicted yourself right there.

If these changes are to take place, it will make phone apps not only a necessity but a requirement . If you want people off their phones, then have everything available in print with the product it was purchased on . If such errata didn't existed than phone references would not be as necessary as they are now.

Funny how the more people argue, the more reasons I find out why these changes is bad all around. You are digging yourself in a pit and no, democracy does not work here. These are not up to a vote, players opinions don't matter and that is what this is my opinion. FFG can do what ever it wants , I am just letting everyone know (FFG included) that said ideas are bad ones and those that want to defend them while not working for FFG are in error .

If they do I either play by FFG's new rules or quit, just like the rest of us. Nothing else to say.

Leaked changes are good.

Leaked changes aren't perfect.

Change is always disruptive.

25 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

You just contradicted yourself right there.

If these changes are to take place, it will make phone apps not only a necessity but a requirement . If you want people off their phones, then have everything available in print with the product it was purchased on . If such errata didn't existed than phone references would not be as necessary as they are now.

Or maybe, if you plan on participating in a tournament, it's your responsibility to have read up beforehand on what is legal in the competitive setting.

You'll be set straight by the TO when you get there regardless, but you've not got a leg to stand on complaining if you haven't read it.

And, news flash! You can print out the FAQ if the wording is too tough to remember/you suspect you will encounter players who don't know how portions of your list function under the new rules.

Phone's not necessary if you did your homework.

I'm shocked at how hurt you by it.... It's a G A M E. you don't have to play it.

There are way more serious things to worry about. Like how I'm going to convince my wife to let me spend the money to goto Canadian Nationals

1 hour ago, SaltMaster 5000 said:

Krayts are right. It's not Mindlink, it's some of the platforms it can go on. Like the Shadowcaster, Fenn Rau, and Jumpmaster.

Mindlink makes it such that Sycks (real Sycks, not running away with Inaldra all game), HWKs, and even Starvipers are (barely) playable.

Mindlink wasn't a problem until the Lancer and Protectorate came out. Mindlink ONLY on the Jumpmaster is just okay.

That's the reason Mindlink wasn't used when it first came out. The only decent platform for it at the time was triple Scouts, and Deadeye was clearly better on them.

To further drive the Krayt's point home, look at all of the successful Scum lists that DON'T have Mindlink in them, it's still Jumpmasters, Shadowcasters, and Fenn Rau with the occasional Bossk. It's still these platforms at the top when Mindlink isn't used.

Mindlink isn't the problem, it's some of these ships that can carry it.

Mindlink was/is a problem. Yes, these ships (more appropriately, Rau, Asajj, and the jumpmasters) may also be a problem, but let's not pretend those listed ships are strong enough to compete suddenly in this game if those ships don't exist. Remember what scum was before jumpmasters? Don't worry, no one does.

jk it was brobots.

15 minutes ago, Sparklelord said:

Or maybe, if you plan on participating in a tournament, it's your responsibility to have read up beforehand on what is legal in the competitive setting.

You'll be set straight by the TO when you get there regardless, but you've not got a leg to stand on complaining if you haven't read it.

And, news flash! You can print out the FAQ if the wording is too tough to remember/you suspect you will encounter players who don't know how portions of your list function under the new rules.

Phone's not necessary if you did your homework.

or allow for a printout to be legal. But no you need the cards as well.

The problem is all nerfherders such as yourself who claim to be the defenders of X-wing (while demanding that Biggs gets axed) whining about it all over forums, reddit and podcasts. Seriously you all need to move to another game like Armada or something. As for the no phone why do you think I am against such changes? So you won't need a phone.

But again with all these erratas, accretion, power-creep, and forum-wing meta gaming even the TOs can't keep up with all the insanity. But all you hear is Jumpmaster Nerf and all of a sudden are like "Yay" not knowing how and said consequences of how the nerf came to be . Well I'll tell you the consequence. Phone and off site resources are now needed more than before. It would be like "Trump is no longer president" then announcing after all the cheering that Pence is. No one will be cheering after that harsh reality sets in.

Homework is done, you don't like phones (despite an obvious and legal dice app from FFG), then why do you want the game to take on more traits of a digital format? That just brings more phones into the game not leaving them out.

Class dismissed.

22 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

Mindlink was/is a problem. Yes, these ships (more appropriately, Rau, Asajj, and the jumpmasters) may also be a problem, but let's not pretend those listed ships are strong enough to compete suddenly in this game if those ships don't exist. Remember what scum was before jumpmasters? Don't worry, no one does.

jk it was brobots.

Hey, before the jump came out, I placed at a store champ with Drea Renthal, Hotshot Leechos and Binare, and a hotshot Black Sun Marauder.

People wernt used to a torpedo boat before torpedo uboats were a thing, or jousters with turrets.

38 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

or allow for a printout to be legal. But no you need the cards as well.

I'm so confused. Why would you ever not need the card? That's the only thing showing you've actually purchased/borrowed/forged/stole that card yourself. That's exactly the same way you are playing the game right now, correct? Unless you are playing in a format which does not have you worried about legality, in which case proxies should be perfectly fine, in which case this makes even LESS sense as to why you would be bothered by errata.

I just don't understand the argument that erratas (which make the game better balanced) should not be made because this is a game with physical components. We live in a digital age. We are freaking talking about a game of plastic and paper ON AN ELECTRONIC DEVICE right this moment. How we can be upset about having to pull up a web browser and read to see how an exclusive batch of components work, or do a one time print to include those changes in our collection, in the year 2017, is baffling to me.

5 minutes ago, tortugatron said:

File it with the rest of his vows. He's on his 3rd wife, you know...

And why is errata better than a restricted list again?

Just now, Sithborg said:

And why is errata better than a restricted list again?

Because players would get REALLY upset if they are told the 3 jumpmasters they purchased, fully expecting them to be usable for the life of the game, are no longer allowed.

its much easier to swallow if you can still use it, even if it was knocked down a notch. See- Whisper, Manaroo, etc.