final salvo is a dice roll, i fail to see how that is related to the old intentional draw crap. You cant rig the final salvo, even getting it at all isnt easy.

5 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

final salvo is a dice roll, i fail to see how that is related to the old intentional draw crap. You cant rig the final salvo, even getting it at all isnt easy.

Imagine:

Two players are in the final round of Swiss, and one player has a distinct Final Salvo advantage. If the player without the FS advantage is convinced he'll still make the cut due to his 100 MoV points from a Final Salvo loss where nothing is killed, he can basically intentionally go to Final Salvo and lose. This puts the player who wins in and will likely put the player who got the FS Loss in as well, since his MoV will be so strong (he's getting the best possible MoV for a loss via the 100pts that results from losing a Final Salvo where nothing died).


e.g., me and my opponent are both 5-1. I have a 9 Die Final Salvo, he has a 4 Die Final Salvo. It is greatly in my favor to fortress/avoid/or make sure engagement happens on my terms, because I have an overwhelming advantage in the Final Salvo. If my opponent is simulatenously convinced that he'd make the cut as a 5-2 because he has impeccable MoV up to this point and would get 100 MoV for the Final Salvo 'loss,' he has an incentive to similarly just take the Final Salvo "loss" and not risk getting knocked out by a big defeat that gave him substantially less MoV. So both players may recognize that neither needs to take the risk of engaging on anything but their own terms, so you can get a game of stalemate going as both players wait for the Final Salvo (which one expects to win and one expects to lose).


It's far more limited than the old ID rules, and the circumstances where it can arise are few and rare, but there are cases where it can function somewhat like the old ID Situation: two players avoid playing the game and both advance. Of course, it's closer to an Intentional Loss rule than an Intentional Draw, but sure.

Can someone give me a quick explanation of what "final salvo" is?

26 minutes ago, DarthEnderX said:

Can someone give me a quick explanation of what "final salvo" is?

Is anybody else hearing Europe?

Final Salvo is what happens when a game ends in a tie. Each player takes a number of red dice based on the primary weapon value of the remaining ships (or all ships, if both lists were wiped out simultaneously), and rolls, counting hits and crits. Higher number wins. MoV is 100-100.

2 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

final salvo is a dice roll, i fail to see how that is related to the old intentional draw crap. You cant rig the final salvo, even getting it at all isnt easy.

If your Fortress Biggs has 11 dice and your opponent's Fortress Biggs has 10, those are good odds. 60/40-ish?

2 hours ago, SaltMaster 5000 said:

If your Fortress Biggs has 11 dice and your opponent's Fortress Biggs has 10, those are good odds. 60/40-ish?

Coincidentally exactly 60/40 in this case.

Here are all the odds: Listener 3 Final Salvo Odds

The point is you don't end up with a crapshoot where one player has 200 MOV and the other has 0. If you both are teammates you go to Final Salvo, split the MOV and then simply pick someone to get the win.

Is this a Fairship Rebels defense?

....the uneducated, just asking. I'm violent, I always go for the kill regardless the odds.

53 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Coincidentally exactly 60/40 in this case.

Here are all the odds: Listener 3 Final Salvo Odds

The reason I know this is because of that Krayt episode. Thank you.

You get a winner, and a loser, and even if one side has much better odds at the final salvo with all their ships intact (TIE swarm vs, say, Dash + Jan ors) it's still not certain. Dice can be fickle, and so you're not likely to go for it unless the two players involved have literally nothing to lose by the match loss.

This is generally only going to be the top table in the final round of Swiss. More vital than this, though, is that it cannot disadvantage anyone else lower in the rankings, while IDs very much had the unfortunate ability to leave two players safer to not play than actually play.

This is the big deal part, I feel: every game now has one winner and one loser, so the only time this can be an advantage is if you have literally nothing to lose. IDs gave you a weird middle ground, and that could make the world of difference.