On 7/26/2017 at 9:37 PM, petrol blue said:

I played in (and came gloriously last in!) a theatrical-cut league recently. I'm a newbie, and I knew that I was going to get my *** kicked. Even so, trimming the game down to 'Wave 1-3' gave me a way in, a sort-of-level playing field.

The game as a whole is just way too complex now. Balance issues aside, I think the game's lost the basic idea of 'I pick a smarter move than you, so I can shoot you better'.

Look at that. That isn't 'I out-thought you', that's 'I have so many options you can't win'. If I picked a poor maneuver (the original bank-1-r), you should get a shot on me!

Gonna proxy a bunch of stuff, gonna play some HotAC and paint up some awesome X's and Y's. I was never going to be a competitive must-buy-everything player, but the current game feels more and more outside of my reach. I hope there's some sort of 2.0 campaign box soon.

Food for thought.

Just run around your office at work shouting pew pew pew while flying your ships. I promise its the best way to play.

56 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I beg to differ. If you want to become a mechanic, you start with a single-stroke lawnmower engine, not a ram-jet turboprop with afterburner.

yes... because all aero-mechanics started by rebuilding lawn mower engines which have nothing to do with turbine engines...

I get what you're trying to say, but you example is horrible...

single stroke lawn mower engine to overhead cam V8 maybe but the jump to turbines just doesn't make any sense...

5 hours ago, Sasajak said:

so hard to get casual play going. Put a call out for HotAC... me and my brother turn up. Put a call out for 100/6 "casual" me (Imperial), brother (Rebel) and 6 scum players turn up with tourney level lists. Honestly it can be exhausting trying to get the casual idea in people's heads. They just don't get it.

5 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Testify, brother. 20 players in my area profess interest in HotAC ... there are four slated to play. (And I'm not blaming them. Time is precious, and tournaments are fun (sometimes). Often you have to make a choice, and they make theirs. I'm just backing you up on how hard it is to play casually.)

The store championship season is almost over, right? We have a break after that, right? Yeah, 40k is stealing a lot of thunder from the not so serious players.

It can be hard, but you got to put the work in to build the casual games. It can take a couple of months of effort before you really start to see some results.

As it is now with HotAC, we sometimes hope to get just 3 of us to get a quick game in, but every time we start to play, it always ends up being 6 players. Oh, it's fun, but it takes twice as long and gets brutal with so many enemy. I almost wish someone else would print the game out and bring it every week so we could have two tables going. I did get back to actually painting my 3D printed HotAC station and mines today.

On ‎7‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 9:01 PM, Mattman7306 said:

Bravo forums, as usual, you've chosen the most trivial and least practical thing to worry about for a release.

Yeah I feel like this new star viper pilot will be the countess ryad of scum. Great, fun maneuvering ability that will show up in some competitive lists, but will not dominate.

45 minutes ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

Yeah I feel like this new star viper pilot will be the countess ryad of scum. Great, fun maneuvering ability that will show up in some competitive lists, but will not dominate.

I logged onto Tabletop Simulator tonight and started spectating a game. Thweek had mimicked Ryad. ******* rekt

12 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

I beg to differ. If you want to become a mechanic, you start with a single-stroke lawnmower engine, not a ram-jet turboprop with afterburner.

As an aircraft mechanic, when I went to school we started studying with PT-6(helicopter and King air turbo prop) and J302(number? They were installed on the 727) jet engines. Then studied rockets. The LAST half of the program was reciprocal engines. And those had magneto timing to master. Just a heads up. That was the prescribed curriculum.

PS, what has a turbo prop with an afterburner?

15 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

I really have to blame FFG for this. They just don't truly support anything but the idea of 100/6 tournaments. You can't make it casual if you don't also make it NOT 100/6.

15 hours ago, Sasajak said:

They do nothing at all to support casual or even thematic play.

Simply not true in both instances. The starter set andthe vast majority of the large box expansions all contain missions. The Epic ships contain campaigns. They introduced and trialled Mission Control - which is still on this wbeiste - but very few people actually bother/bothered to use it. They've supported casual and beginner in-store events like "I Am Your Father's Day". They provide rules guidlines for Epic, Team Epic and Escalation tournaments as well.

I'm sure if more FLGS and/or player groups started running campaign weekends, Epic events and the like then FFG would provide more support for the formats. The resources are there. It's up to the players (and their FLGS) to use them.

13 hours ago, Phoenix5454 said:

I get what you're trying to say, but you example is horrible...

single stroke lawn mower engine to overhead cam V8 maybe but the jump to turbines just doesn't make any sense...

1 hour ago, ForceSensitive said:

As an aircraft mechanic, when I went to school we started studying with PT-6(helicopter and King air turbo prop) and J302(number? They were installed on the 727) jet engines. Then studied rockets. The LAST half of the program was reciprocal engines. And those had magneto timing to master. Just a heads up. That was the prescribed curriculum.

PS, what has a turbo prop with an afterburner?

OK, you both caught me. I'm a veterinarian, not actually an aircraft mechanic.

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

Simply not true in both instances. The starter set andthe vast majority of the large box expansions all contain missions. The Epic ships contain campaigns. They introduced and trialled Mission Control - which is still on this wbeiste - but very few people actually bother/bothered to use it. They've supported casual and beginner in-store events like "I Am Your Father's Day". They provide rules guidlines for Epic, Team Epic and Escalation tournaments as well.

I'm sure if more FLGS and/or player groups started running campaign weekends, Epic events and the like then FFG would provide more support for the formats. The resources are there. It's up to the players (and their FLGS) to use them.

I said "truly support." By which I meant that, yes FFG does make Epic ships and missions, etc., but spends about 90%+ of their time focused on 100/6 tournament meta.

Is there prize support for Epic play?

In their last interview they were asked about Epic design, and they essentially mumbled something about "working with energy is kinda neat" then got back to 100/6. So, in a 1 hour interview we got about 2 minutes of Epic and 58 minutes of 100/6. They make stuff essentially for DIY use, but they clearly have less enthusiasm for Epic. And the lack of dev enthusiasm translates into a lack of player enthusiasm.

My other point was that because 100/6 is the tournament format, is seems that some players can't seem to differentiate between XWM for prizes and XWM for light-hearted play. Hence @Sasajak's complaint that he shows up for goofy thematic fun, and 6 guys show up with deathmatch lists. Perhaps this could be solved by making casual XWM something unto itself: maybe 125 points, or maybe non-Huge ships that are Epic/casual only.

Also on the subject of complexity, and entry points, and player learning curve, it was WAY easier in the first three, maybe four, waves. Back then if you were putting more than two upgrades on a ship or multiple ships in the same list you were going to lose, or were playing tri-ace imperial interceptors, or Biggs Luke Wedge, or fat turrets.

Anymore it seems like if you are not putting at least three upgrades on a ship, your doing it wrong. Which is completely backwards to the early days. Now in the local meta I see players flying the new "baby phat"meta of two small turrets loaded to bear with more turrets and bombs and torps. It's like 30%upgrades! Which is entirely three times what I would teach people to do 8 weaves ago. There are more upgrades in a single ship today then I remember being in whole lists only back in wave five. Dash/Cherry and phantoms changed all that.

My point is, there's so much combination learning to learn to a single ship that instead of just running through games and getting through dials, activation, combat, you got to spend tenth minutes just to walk a body through the upgrades on the ship before you can even play.

8 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Is there prize support for Epic play?

Yes, there is. So far at various events we've seen prizes including alt/extended art cards for the Raider, the CR-90, the GR-75 and the Assault Carrier, as well as alt-art Targeting Co-ordinator cards, acrylic energy tokens and acrylic epic movement templates and more... but that seems to me like you want to have your cake and eat it, as on one hand you're bewailing the lack of casual events yet on the other you're bewailing the lack of prize support which would lead to a more competitive and less casual format. Make your mind up?

Even at the European championships this year FFG ran a Team Epic event with prize support (I know, I was there, I played and it was awesome). I'm sure they'll do something similar at GenCon and the North American Championships as well. The Hangar Bay side events they run are also a blast.

The fact is that the demand for 100/6 far outweighs the demand for epic or casual events, so quite obviously that is their main focus. However, that hasn't stopped FFG supporting Epic and casual events, and it's disingenuous to say it has. Players and FLGS need to take some responsibility and ownership as well - if the demand was there, then FFG would provide more support.

21 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Yes, there is. So far at various events we've seen prizes including alt/extended art cards for the Raider, the CR-90, the GR-75 and the Assault Carrier, as well as alt-art Targeting Co-ordinator cards, acrylic energy tokens and acrylic epic movement templates and more... but that seems to me like you want to have your cake and eat it, as on one hand you're bewailing the lack of casual events yet on the other you're bewailing the lack of prize support which would lead to a more competitive and less casual format. Make your mind up?

No, I was asking a question straight up. So I'll take an answer without a side of judgement, thank you.

I see many people have had their feelings hurt in this thread

2 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

No, I was asking a question straight up. So I'll take an answer without a side of judgement, thank you.

OK, then the answer is yes, they do.

10 minutes ago, KelRiever said:

I see many people have had their feelings hurt in this thread

Certainly not we BAMF'ing STAR WARS X-EPIC Play-ahhs.

Hel...Nah!

3 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

OK, then the answer is yes, they do. Happy?

Prolly not...

On 7/27/2017 at 10:11 AM, Phoenix5454 said:

Yeah I read the whole whiny post.

Waiting for a X-wing 2.0 because you can't handle that the game has evolved and has actually become interesting is just illogical. Why bother? Even if there is a 2.0 it's not going to wipe the slate clean and go back to what the basic core set was. If you're not actually willing even as a new player jumping in to figure out all the ins and outs of the game then why bother? It's obviously not interesting enough to you if you won't take the time to learn the whole game. It has nothing to do with being competitive. As I said stick to chess, that will never change on you. So sick of people whining which is why I chimed in in the first place. The forums used to be filled with interesting discussions, now its been boiled down to: I'm out threads, illogical Nerf or Buff threads and scum is so op threads.

I was out of chess once they introduced En Passant. You're saying the pawns, in addition to being to take in a different way than they can move, can also take in a 2nd manner and can take a piece that's not in the square that they're moving? And you get 8 of them? That's OP.

On 7/27/2017 at 5:13 PM, Azrapse said:

I think SaltMaster, as Paragoomba Slayer before him, doesn't really agree with what he does, but does it anyway as a way to protest for the state of the game. I might be wrong, though, but it reminds me to The Comedian in Watchmen.

I liked Paragoomba's VI Boba build. That was sadistic and creative and a good fix to his complaints. Unfortunately most of the rest of the stuff Paragoomba does is sadistic. I may have missed it, but I haven't seen that kind of creativity from Saltmaster yet.

Hi.

Filthy Casual here.

I've been playing since Wave 2, and I'll certainly grant that there are elements to the game that do not interest me, or that I find to be too prone to abuse. However, I will not be among the "I'm out" crowd, simply because until X-wing comes to an end, there remains a chance that they'll release more expansions that interest me. I can't say I'm terribly interested in anything from the latest wave, but there are a few older ships I'd still like to get. My Aggressor is lonely, for example. You don't really get any use out of the IG-2000 title with only one Aggressor. My First Order squad would like to requisition an Upsilon to support them, as well. A second Most Wanted set isn't out of the question, either, or another Rebel Y-wing.

Of course, that's to say nothing of my (probably vain) hope that they'll add the Rogue Shadow at some point, or offer an upgrade to the T-65 that'll make it more of a staple for Rebel squads while not being named Biggs. Episode VIII will probably bring us the Kylo Interceptor, which I think looks cool, and I might even take an interest in the Resistance A-wing.

The point being, I still enjoy X-wing, as does the OP, so don't take this as an argument against the stated position. FFG may print and sell stuff that's not up my alley, and its increasingly likely that they'll release more that doesn't interest me than does. That's certainly been the case over the last few waves. Still, I'll keep my eyes open for stuff that does suit my interest, and invest where it appeals. I'll keep trying to introduce the game to new players, and share my plastic crack addiction with my friends. (My addiction isn't restricted to X-wing, mind you; my most recent service to the addiction was pre-ordering Star Trek minis from Modiphius...)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, for all of the faults X-wing has, there's still a lot about it that I find to be great fun, and by choice I focus on those and play with the fun stuff.

Keep flying.

A bit of thread necromancy here, but relevant: I played my first HotAC game last week, and all the talk about it is right - it's exactly what I want from x-wing. Everyone who said 'play different formats', you were absolutely right.

I guess I'd been kinda sucked into the netlist, study-the-meta, 100/6 (what does the six in that even mean?), git gud mentality. And that's... not the game I enjoy. Like, not saying hard-competitive x-wing is worse, just not what I want.

Right now, I seriously believe the best thing FFG could do is to buy the rights for HotAC, and sell it as a boxed campaign. No ships, just a ton of card. I'm going to donate the cost of a starter set to the peeps who made it, because it's worth at least that much.

Casual games with the 100/6 locals are going to be a grey area - we'll be playing casual lists, but not buying into the latest wave is probably still going to be a handicap. I'll worry about that once I've chilled with different formats for a bit.

6 hours ago, petrol blue said:

A bit of thread necromancy here, but relevant: I played my first HotAC game last week, and all the talk about it is right - it's exactly what I want from x-wing. Everyone who said 'play different formats', you were absolutely right.

I guess I'd been kinda sucked into the netlist, study-the-meta, 100/6 (what does the six in that even mean?), git gud mentality. And that's... not the game I enjoy. Like, not saying hard-competitive x-wing is worse, just not what I want.

Right now, I seriously believe the best thing FFG could do is to buy the rights for HotAC, and sell it as a boxed campaign. No ships, just a ton of card. I'm going to donate the cost of a starter set to the peeps who made it, because it's worth at least that much.

Casual games with the 100/6 locals are going to be a grey area - we'll be playing casual lists, but not buying into the latest wave is probably still going to be a handicap. I'll worry about that once I've chilled with different formats for a bit.

Welcome to Filthy Casual x-wing. It's the best thing going. . .even if FFG can't figure it out.

7 hours ago, petrol blue said:

A bit of thread necromancy here, but relevant: I played my first HotAC game last week, and all the talk about it is right - it's exactly what I want from x-wing. Everyone who said 'play different formats', you were absolutely right.

I guess I'd been kinda sucked into the netlist, study-the-meta, 100/6 (what does the six in that even mean?), git gud mentality. And that's... not the game I enjoy. Like, not saying hard-competitive x-wing is worse, just not what I want.

Right now, I seriously believe the best thing FFG could do is to buy the rights for HotAC, and sell it as a boxed campaign. No ships, just a ton of card. I'm going to donate the cost of a starter set to the peeps who made it, because it's worth at least that much.

Casual games with the 100/6 locals are going to be a grey area - we'll be playing casual lists, but not buying into the latest wave is probably still going to be a handicap. I'll worry about that once I've chilled with different formats for a bit.

Kessel Kup is also amazing - or Mario Kart, if you prefer. Just make sure to hardban the TIE Striker right from the start - it's WAAY to fast and wrecks the game entirely.

But...

The core of X-Wing is strong. The basic mechanic is unique and amazing. What's failed is the developer approach. Who knows? Maybe GenCon will have some news in this regard. But I have doubts.

On 27/07/2017 at 11:37 AM, petrol blue said:

Umm, I know I'm late to the party, but this image confuses me.

Which Viper is the original position? I had assumed it was the lower one, as the top image ends up out of the TIE's firing arc, and now has a shot. But how does a Viper do a rear 1-bank? Is this something in the new Aces pack, or am I missing something?

Not trying to make trouble, I just don't get it!

25 minutes ago, Nestyr said:

Umm, I know I'm late to the party, but this image confuses me.

Which Viper is the original position? I had assumed it was the lower one, as the top image ends up out of the TIE's firing arc, and now has a shot. But how does a Viper do a rear 1-bank? Is this something in the new Aces pack, or am I missing something?

Not trying to make trouble, I just don't get it!

The StarViper starts at the 2nd from bottom position. The diagram is meant to illustrate the two locations it would wind up if it either did a 1 bank right or if it barrel rolled with Advanced Sensors and then did a 1 bank right.

On 8/12/2017 at 5:58 PM, petrol blue said:

I guess I'd been kinda sucked into the netlist, study-the-meta, 100/6 (what does the six in that even mean?), git gud mentality. And that's... not the game I enjoy. Like, not saying hard-competitive x-wing is worse, just not what I want.

100 squad points

6 Obstacles (Asteroids, Debris etc.)

1 hour ago, DragoonKainKatarn said:

The StarViper starts at the 2nd from bottom position. The diagram is meant to illustrate the two locations it would wind up if it either did a 1 bank right or if it barrel rolled with Advanced Sensors and then did a 1 bank right.

Thanks DKK. Greatly appreciated.

FWIW I think the game has gotten a bit more bloated than I'd like rules-wise too, X-wings beauty was it's simplicity.