Maybe you're looking at this the wrong way - sure, Rebs dont have a carrier like a Quasar with similar upgrade/ alpha strike capabilities, but they do have far more flexible/ useful carrier options when looking at the big picture. The MC80, AF and MC80L (with Leia/Liberty) are all capable of doing other stuff whilst performing carrier duties. The Quasar is great at carrier duties... and thats it. Plus its about as durable as a papier mache U-boat.

Also, the GR75. Of course it doesnt have the alpha strike of the Quasar, but 6 squadron command for 46 points, plus arguably more survivability and the additional activation.

Relatedly, I'm debating putting flight controllers and expanded hangar bays on a hammerhead with Leia. I dunno if it's GOOD, but it'll be interesting at least!

5 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Relatedly, I'm debating putting flight controllers and expanded hangar bays on a hammerhead with Leia. I dunno if it's GOOD, but it'll be interesting at least!

Still cheaper than an AFMK-II with Flight Controllers, and just as fast!

Fewer points invested in fighters that do more, and a carrier that's more robust than the Quasar. Drop Jan into the rebel list with a few other fighters (X-Wings, or YT-1300s if you're playing defensively and why not?) to tank for your aces, then drop Jan in to give all the Imperial fighters heavy, pop the carrier (since if Stronghold is covering the fighters, it'll be in range to be attacked by the Rebel battle line), then mop up the Fighters with Yavaris.

My point with all of this though is that rebels do multi-role options better than the Empire. I mean, out of that least undeadguy, none of those imperial aces are good at attacking capital ships, wheras all of the Rebel aces attack both capital ships and fighters pretty well (Well, Nym's at two blues which I overlooked, but you could swap him out for Dagger or Ten for ace potential with 3 AA). I've weathered plenty of B-Wing defensive pickets out of Yavaris before I realized I shouldn't go near that. It doesn't matter what I drove up to it, especially if the Rebels can move Wedge into position to respond to my alpha strike. Rebel fighters have more health to tank damage better and have good AA without compromising bomber dice.

And sure, fewer fighters is more points of failure, but that's when you use the remaining points to buy some more Escort fighters to pad the real strikers of your lists. Speed is also another concern, but with everything cheap in the Rebellion you can afford to drop a few upgrades, or a cheap flotilla, to get a bid advantage.

4 minutes ago, Norsehound said:

but with everything cheap in the Rebellion you can afford to drop a few upgrades, or a cheap flotilla, to get a bid advantage.

Erm. . . I consider nothing cheap in the Rebellion. Some things are cheaper than the Empire, but nothing is cheap. . . and in general with the builds you are describing, all upgrades are already at the bare minimum.

Furthermore, what if I don't want to fly those builds? You have mentioned Biggsballs, Riekaan Aces (with or without Rieekan doesn't matter, it's the composition) and B-Swarms. Many people want a carrier capable of doing what the Quasar can - activating a bunch of cheap (ish - rebel squads are on the whole more expensive) squads en masse to overwhelm the enemy squads by weight of numbers, not quality of attacks. I am not advocating the introduction of such an ideal carrier per se, for my reasons stated previously, but neither can you claim that the Rebels have something that can easily emulate the Quasar. They have good combos, but no ship singularly as useful as the Quasar.

36 minutes ago, Norsehound said:

Fewer points invested in fighters that do more, and a carrier that's more robust than the Quasar. Drop Jan into the rebel list with a few other fighters (X-Wings, or YT-1300s if you're playing defensively and why not?) to tank for your aces, then drop Jan in to give all the Imperial fighters heavy, pop the carrier (since if Stronghold is covering the fighters, it'll be in range to be attacked by the Rebel battle line), then mop up the Fighters with Yavaris.

My point with all of this though is that rebels do multi-role options better than the Empire. I mean, out of that least undeadguy, none of those imperial aces are good at attacking capital ships, wheras all of the Rebel aces attack both capital ships and fighters pretty well (Well, Nym's at two blues which I overlooked, but you could swap him out for Dagger or Ten for ace potential with 3 AA). I've weathered plenty of B-Wing defensive pickets out of Yavaris before I realized I shouldn't go near that. It doesn't matter what I drove up to it, especially if the Rebels can move Wedge into position to respond to my alpha strike. Rebel fighters have more health to tank damage better and have good AA without compromising bomber dice.

And sure, fewer fighters is more points of failure, but that's when you use the remaining points to buy some more Escort fighters to pad the real strikers of your lists. Speed is also another concern, but with everything cheap in the Rebellion you can afford to drop a few upgrades, or a cheap flotilla, to get a bid advantage.

I fully agree those aces are not going to do well against ships. But I also play both sides and realize either one is capable of taking the other on. I don't think either one is OP. The main factor is getting an alpha strike. The chances of getting an alpha and trigger Yavaris is extremely low. You get maybe 1+1 from 2 FCT in your fleet. I just keep my squads behind my ships and you'll never get to attack them until I want you to attack them.

In my experience, Rebel squads want to be in front of their carriers, and Imp squads want to be behind or on the side. The speed difference is the very important. It is a whole lot easier for Imps to get an alpha with a Quasar than it is for Rebels to get an alpha with Yavaris.

So yea, it's quite likely Yavaris will tear up those 6 aces IF those Rebel aces can get engaged. I don't see why anyone would fly a Quasar directly into Yavaris and drag the squads along to die. That's a stupid way to play. Also, Stronghold is capable of covering it's squads and staying at long range of any ship while the squads are at range 1. So if the Quasar gets the alpha on Yavaris n friends, you'll be fighting through obstruction.

The playing field is even. Rebels have a very good defensive synergy with their squads. Imps have a very good offensive synergy with their squads. And if that's not good enough, Imps can take 8 Tie/D and beat Rebel squads over the head with black dice.

A 'better' carrier would certainly make flying rebel squadrons easier.

That said I don't know that it would be better for the game.

It's supposed to be a challenge, right?

12 minutes ago, TaeSWXW said:

A 'better' carrier would certainly make flying rebel squadrons easier.

That said I don't know that it would be better for the game.

It's supposed to be a challenge, right?

My point exactly.

Look no further than the Flotilla. With Expanded Hangars and Commander Leia, you've got 4 activation carriers.

You also have fleet support, and two of the best squadron officers in the game, Adar and Toryn.

Wish I'd see more Chiraneau

5 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

because the raider has no redirect and only 4 hull...

It'll take roughly 7-8 damage to kill a hammer head and only 6 to kill a raider... especially if delivered by squadrons

That brace is only so useful too... even one accuracy and the raider suffers full damage.

This.

Also, just cost: HH with ER = 39. Raider with ER and OE is 51. Big diff. You don' really care if you lose a HH. You do kinda care if you lose a Raider. Plus they can go up with Instigator or Agent Kallus. Good value. Just really squishy chassis.

Don't get me wrong, Raiders are nice. But man, would be nice to have some suicidal PT-boat ships to throw at the enemy too. HHs with ER are pretty fun. Idk if TF Antilles is worth it.

5 hours ago, DOMSWAT911 said:

If you already play Star Wars Rebellion on computer in the 90's, the game was really well balanced. For each ship in one faction, you had one counter part in the other.

This is what i'm expecting a little bit in Armada. They where not exactly the same but at least you had something to compete at the same level. With the FQ, I think that Reb's need a little push at the same level. Like Ophion said before, the Sullustan Liberator cruiser could be the counter part.

Couple issues here. First off, this is the Armada forum, not the Rebellion forum. /s

Secondly, there wasn't as much balance as you remember. The best fighter/troop carrier for the rebels was a 10/4, while the Imps had a 12/9. The Imps had 3 other ships that could carry 6 fighters (excluding the Death Stars massive 24). The rebels had only two 6 fighter carriers, and they both stunk in any other way. 2 of the Imps big carriers were Star Destroyers. Keep in mind that the game basically made the Bulwark (a 2500 meter long ship) equal to the Super Star Destroyer (a 19,000 meter ship). They basically forced parity between extremely unequal units.

The same lack of equality between the sides was apparent in every part of the game. Ground units, leaders, etc. Sure, they both had ground units that would serve the same purpose, but one was clearly superior than the other for one reason or another.

The Liberator is the only thing I can think of in any Star Wars material that would fill this dedicated carrier role...but the biggest issue there is that I don't think we've seen it in any canon yet.

I personally prefer that the sides don't have perfect parity. It keeps things interesting.

5 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

The Ω strike....

"It's the last play of the game... always...."

QFT.

5 hours ago, Darthain said:

You clearly have never been on the recieving end of FC FCT yavaris B wings enough times then. To say it fixes a weakness is incredibly silly, it allows you to double and triple tap with the games most dangerous bombers 1 turn earlier. It allows you to abuse strategic for objective purposes (extra moves = extra token manipulation).

FCT is an incredibly powerful card, you can choose to dismiss it for not enjoying it sure, but it has a much greater impact on the game than Flight Controllers. It was the big wave 3/4 card that literally single handedly evolved the entire rebel fighter game.

Does it require a few components to make go every time? Sure. Is it disgustingly useful? Absolutely.

Still one of my favorites though. Yavaris would be my go to even if the Rebels received a more focused carrier.

4 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Its not "squadron command, done."

Yavaris is more difficult to do.

But its not going to be as "plug and play ubiquitous" as a Quasar and a bunch of squadrons...

This is okay with me and I am happy with it. I think it is a testament to skill when you can orchestrate something more challenging. In a game designed around naval (albeit fictional) strategy, 'plug and play' Overwatch Bastion-esque ships should certainly not be the norm. It removes the need for strategy, really.

Now, I am not saying that we have anything where you can simply field and charge at the opponents. For that, I am thankful.

30 minutes ago, Geodes said:

QFT.

Still one of my favorites though. Yavaris would be my go to even if the Rebels received a more focused carrier.

This is okay with me and I am happy with it. I think it is a testament to skill when you can orchestrate something more challenging. In a game designed around naval (albeit fictional) strategy, 'plug and play' Overwatch Bastion-esque ships should certainly not be the norm. It removes the need for strategy, really.

Now, I am not saying that we have anything where you can simply field and charge at the opponents. For that, I am thankful.

Heck, Nose-Punch was the most convoluted thing I've ever come up with... And it basically involved using Rebel Tactics with an Imperial Force and its capabilities... So many Moving Parts... So many Ways for things to go Wrong... So Much Psychological Advantage!

5 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Heck, Nose-Punch was the most convoluted thing I've ever come up with... And it basically involved using Rebel Tactics with an Imperial Force and its capabilities... So many Moving Parts... So many Ways for things to go Wrong... So Much Psychological Advantage!

That's where two black ISDs come in handy.

7 minutes ago, Destraa said:

That's where two black ISDs come in handy.

Yes and No.

To a Painter, the colour of an ISD doesn't really matter - you've seen 'em in all shades.

But a much smaller group of people are surprised when, holy-****, THAT INTERDICTOR DID SOMETHING THAT HURT:?!

22 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Yes and No.

To a Painter, the colour of an ISD doesn't really matter - you've seen 'em in all shades.

But a much smaller group of people are surprised when, holy-****, THAT INTERDICTOR DID SOMETHING THAT HURT:?!

It's a psychological factor to non painting players though! And I still haven't seen the nose punch. I gotta see this thing bro.

Just now, Destraa said:

It's a psychological factor to non painting players though! And I still haven't seen the nose punch. I gotta see this thing bro.

I built a concept of Beta 3.0 a couple of hours ago.

I'm waiting for my Quasar to arrive, and then the first opportunity I'll have to put it on the table is August 6th... And that is only if I'm Bye-Breaking, otherwise, I'm TOing full time.

Then August 19th is a Store Champs, and I don't know if I'll take it straight to a Store Champs wtihout testing, but hey, it'd fit my MO.

6 Squadrons would be fun

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Liberator-class_cruiser

7 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

I built a concept of Beta 3.0 a couple of hours ago.

I'm waiting for my Quasar to arrive, and then the first opportunity I'll have to put it on the table is August 6th... And that is only if I'm Bye-Breaking, otherwise, I'm TOing full time.

Then August 19th is a Store Champs, and I don't know if I'll take it straight to a Store Champs wtihout testing, but hey, it'd fit my MO.

Do the Nose Punch™ distances still work out with the nerf to Rhymer? I think that it's my favourite working concept I've seen posted in these forums or in real life.

Let the man make his wishes

As to mine, i wish the pelta had a weapons team slot and Independence title was more useful

2 hours ago, Irokenics said:

Let the man make his wishes

As to mine, i wish the pelta had a weapons team slot and Independence title was more useful

ditto

moreso, though, I wonder if you can jank an mc80 to carry a payload of Bs with Rapid Launch Bays, engine techs and that officer that lets you Squadron after maneuver

3 hours ago, ManInTheBox said:

Do the Nose Punch™ distances still work out with the nerf to Rhymer? I think that it's my favourite working concept I've seen posted in these forums or in real life.

TIE Bombers + Rhymer fuelled by an FC/FCT Interdictor can reach the enemy Deployment Zone.

But not by much. I ran the Math in another thread.

There's little room for error - so you have to be dedicated to it now

On 27/07/2017 at 4:15 AM, Diabloelmo said:

Quoting for truth.

I fail to see why Rebels should get access to all these toys *and* get a dedicated bulk carrier like the Quasar. If they do, well, how about Imperials get access to a cost-effective FC+FCT platform? To a blue+black bomber? To amazing squadron support like Yavaris?

If anything, the Quasar helped provide some much-needed balance to the squadron game, especially with the Rhymer nerf.

This

3 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

There's little room for error - so you have to be dedicated to it now

The cult of Nose Punch rises...