I think its actually a good thing at present because there is clearly a design space for such a ship. Whether it comes as a rebel flagged quasar (Sullustan Liberator cruiser from Rebellion game?) or some other sort of ship, clearly the designers have a strong ship role they can use at some stage to round out the rebels.

I honestly can't see where the threat of "OP" is. Rebel squadrons are generally not hitting as hard as Imperials at present yet cost more. Imps easy access to swarm, character buffing, black defender dice etc, not to mention the Saber/Valen/Marek/Jendon build and relay 2, are all devastating against expensive rebel generics. Whereas rebels depend on blue dice with only a few options for rerolls (basically Toryn). So Imps find it pretty easy to get 3 damage reliably, which is what you need against bracing aces, most rebel fighters struggle.

31 minutes ago, svelok said:

Howlrunner's effect is limited to squadrons with very low hull and mediocre anti-ship attacks (enter: Sloane). Rebels can plop Toryn onto any ship to get a reroll equivalent; 5 blue dice + reroll + bomber command center + Biggs X-Wings, sounds pretty spooky.

They are weak, but cost effective. You can almost plan for two waves; one against ships with Sloane and the others acting as a screen.

7 hours ago, geek19 said:

Yes, they can have 6 dice interceptors when you then turn around and flak them. One damage flakking them takes away 1/3 of their health. If you have a second dice or concentrate fire on them, they can be killed. If they're throwing their Interceptors out there at speed 5 and hope to command them next round, the Quasar is going to need to be distance 5 away from them. Which also means its about distance 5 from your ships, who can fire on it and then blow it apart.

Stronghold! Now you have to use your valuable 2 AA ships to attack squads in hopes of dealing 1 damage. Not sure if you want to use an ISD or MC80 on Tie/I. With BC, the Quasar can activate from long and then re-position to overlap Stronghold on them again, while keeping those Tie/I at 1 of your ships and keeping the Quasar at long of the same ship.

I agree the Quasar will die doing this, but it forces you to attack the Quasar instead of the squads. By the time you kill the Quasar, it will likely have got 2 rounds of 5-6 squads rolling 5-6 dice on your own squads. And then you still need to deal with those squads.

This is one of the things I've been considering when building fleets. How to remove the Quasar in a timely fashion so I can flak the squads.

the problems i have flaking with rebels is opportunity cost, on the whole the rebel fleet doesnt have any real damage, most of its killing power comes from focusing fire with several smaller attacks, attacks they cant really spare hitting squads and unlike the imperials they dont have almost blanket wide gunnery team access so every arc matters. only ship i would rather flak with is the neb B escort cause its dice are just soo bad out the side its better to hit squads.

i dont really rate the flight commander+fighter coordination teams as a strength, you have to fill 2 slots to make slow fighters equal to the empires average speed which you cant even use with intel, paying soo much just to fix a weakness isnt a smart ploy when imps pay 9pts for a speed 4 bomber that they have several titles that speed up fighters, i always felt like the crippling speed disadvantage doesnt make up for 2 extra hull when your paying almost twice as much for it and they have double the offence power. id rather a tie bomber over a ywing any day of the week

3 hours ago, xerpo said:

How can you say this when the raider has more shields and a brace token.

because the raider has no redirect and only 4 hull...

It'll take roughly 7-8 damage to kill a hammer head and only 6 to kill a raider... especially if delivered by squadrons

That brace is only so useful too... even one accuracy and the raider suffers full damage.

7 hours ago, Benji1980 said:

So the imperials get its first carrier (bar the very expensive isd1 fit out) and suddenly the various options available to the rebels are not good enough.

If it helps I want an mc80 variant for imps, with good broadsides, but with the same front output as an isd but at around half the cost...

i know this this isn't a helpful post but come on...

If you are going to call the Quasar the Empire's first carrier, barring the ISD, then you also have to bar the Victory, and the Gozanti, and possibly even the Interdictor. It's not their first carrier by a long shot. It is, however, the best carrier. Possibly the perfect carrier.

8 hours ago, Snipafist said:

Rebels have 3 ships that can run Flight Commander+Fighter Coordination Team well (HMC80, Neb-B, Pelta) and Imperials have zero (sorry @Drasnighta I love you man but I'm not convinced at all about Interdictor carriers).

Rebels overall can command more total muscle of squadrons for each squadron point due to Rebel squadrons being heavier in general.

Rebels get access to two-dice bombers (B-Wings) at a reasonable cost.

Rebels have tech to get more mileage out of individual squadrons (Yavaris and Adar Tallon).

Rebels have access to All Fighters Follow Me on their most dedicated carrier ship. If they don't want that, they can use Entrapment Formation for their whole fleet to get speed changes while still commanding squadrons.

Rebels have the cheapest flotilla, giving them backup carriers at a discount.

You'll have to forgive me if my heart doesn't go out to you because your Flight Controllers ship is "only" Squadrons 3 and can go up to Squadrons 4 with Expanded Hangar Bays and also offers the best defensive squadron title in the game.

Naturally I forgive you, this time... but don't cross me again! LOL

And what good does a defensive squadron title do for me? I'm all about offense. We don't repair our ships - we get new ones and fly them until they are dead! Defense is for those who are afraid to die.... and I don't want to live forever!

Seriously though, THe AFMK2 is great and all, but I'd like to see another rebel ship similar to it, but more singularly focussed. Squadron value 5. Weapons Team, Officer, Offensive Retrofit, Support Team, and maybe second Officer! Oh boy that would be wonderful!

1 minute ago, Crabbok said:

Seriously though, THe AFMK2 is great and all, but I'd like to see another rebel ship similar to it, but more singularly focussed. Squadron value 5. Weapons Team, Officer, Offensive Retrofit, Support Team, and maybe second Officer! Oh boy that would be wonderful!

Imperial players:

6 minutes ago, Crabbok said:

Seriously though, THe AFMK2 is great and all, but I'd like to see another rebel ship similar to it, but more singularly focussed. Squadron value 5. Weapons Team, Officer, Offensive Retrofit, Support Team, and maybe second Officer! Oh boy that would be wonderful!

As much as I would love this too, I don't see it happening unless it has some strings attached. The Quasar is cheap, but only has 3 upgrade slots and 2 defense tokens. More importantly, it filled a role the Imps did not have, being the specialized carrier. It's main role is not combat like and ISD or Vic, which can pull double duty.

I do think Rebels need a carrier that can take a weapons team and offensive slot, but not at squad 5.

12 minutes ago, Crabbok said:

Seriously though, THe AFMK2 is great and all, but I'd like to see another rebel ship similar to it, but more singularly focussed. Squadron value 5. Weapons Team, Officer, Offensive Retrofit, Support Team, and maybe second Officer! Oh boy that would be wonderful!

So wonderful it would have to be 200 points (joking, but come on - it won't be cheap). You can't say I want the perfect, ideal carrier in game for Rebels because the Imps just got one pretty close to it. Where's the fun in playing if every ship is absolutely perfect at its role?

Being able to alpha strike with 7 FCed squads with Adar Talon (or FC) and Toryn Farr after you've flaked/fired and moved is too much to ask for.

5 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

alpha strike with 7 FCed squads

The Ω strike....

"It's the last play of the game... always...."

29 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

because the raider has no redirect and only 4 hull...

It'll take roughly 7-8 damage to kill a hammer head and only 6 to kill a raider... especially if delivered by squadrons

That brace is only so useful too... even one accuracy and the raider suffers full damage.

It really depends and it's difficult to compare the durability of the two directly. Raiders handle consistent long-ranged harassment a bit better due to two evades. They can also handle single more powerful attacks lacking an accuracy better due to the brace. Hammerheads handle the one-off long-ranged shot better due to one evade and they can handle medium- and short-ranged death by a thousand cuts better due to higher hull and the redirect. They also ram better due to more hull (both rammer and rammee), which is appropriate.

It's really hard to flatly state which is more durable. I'm quite familiar with the "oh crap" situations Raiders can get into with taking a big attack with a single accuracy and then *pop*, but I've also seen Hammerheads suffer in situations where Raiders would've been fine (lots of black dice being the easiest go-to). I've found repair commands on Raiders to be particularly key in keeping them alive just a bit longer (usually by moving two shields, sometimes by regenerating one) as it allows you to "fake" a redirect token, and that also helps.

1 hour ago, TerrorScream said:

I dont really rate the flight commander+fighter coordination teams as a strength, you have to fill 2 slots to make slow fighters equal to the empires average speed which you cant even use with intel, paying soo much just to fix a weakness isnt a smart ploy when imps pay 9pts for a speed 4 bomber that they have several titles that speed up fighters, i always felt like the crippling speed disadvantage doesnt make up for 2 extra hull when your paying almost twice as much for it and they have double the offence power. id rather a tie bomber over a ywing any day of the week

You clearly have never been on the recieving end of FC FCT yavaris B wings enough times then. To say it fixes a weakness is incredibly silly, it allows you to double and triple tap with the games most dangerous bombers 1 turn earlier. It allows you to abuse strategic for objective purposes (extra moves = extra token manipulation).

FCT is an incredibly powerful card, you can choose to dismiss it for not enjoying it sure, but it has a much greater impact on the game than Flight Controllers. It was the big wave 3/4 card that literally single handedly evolved the entire rebel fighter game.

Does it require a few components to make go every time? Sure. Is it disgustingly useful? Absolutely.

If you already play Star Wars Rebellion on computer in the 90's, the game was really well balanced. For each ship in one faction, you had one counter part in the other.

This is what i'm expecting a little bit in Armada. They where not exactly the same but at least you had something to compete at the same level. With the FQ, I think that Reb's need a little push at the same level. Like Ophion said before, the Sullustan Liberator cruiser could be the counter part.

1 minute ago, Snipafist said:

It really depends and it's difficult to compare the durability of the two directly. Raiders handle consistent long-ranged harassment a bit better due to two evades. They can also handle single more powerful attacks lacking an accuracy better due to the brace. Hammerheads handle the one-off long-ranged shot better due to one evade and they can handle medium- and short-ranged death by a thousand cuts better due to higher hull and the redirect. They also ram better due to more hull (both rammer and rammee), which is appropriate.

It's really hard to flatly state which is more durable. I'm quite familiar with the "oh crap" situations Raiders can get into with taking a big attack with a single accuracy and then *pop*, but I've also seen Hammerheads suffer in situations where Raiders would've been fine (lots of black dice being the easiest go-to). I've found repair commands on Raiders to be particularly key in keeping them alive just a bit longer (usually by moving two shields, sometimes by regenerating one) as it allows you to "fake" a redirect token, and that also helps.

A very good point.

Quasar- shoot with six squadrons once.

Yavaris- shoot with three squadrons twice.

1 minute ago, svelok said:

Quasar- shoot with six squadrons once.

Yavaris- shoot with three squadrons twice.

The "If they don't move" is still a difficulty that's not stated there.

24 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

As much as I would love this too, I don't see it happening unless it has some strings attached. The Quasar is cheap, but only has 3 upgrade slots and 2 defense tokens. More importantly, it filled a role the Imps did not have, being the specialized carrier. It's main role is not combat like and ISD or Vic, which can pull double duty.

I do think Rebels need a carrier that can take a weapons team and offensive slot, but not at squad 5.

I will concede that a squadron value of 5 might be a bit too much with that actual combination... but I can dream right? Ask for 5 and end up getting 4... still walk away happy!

22 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

So wonderful it would have to be 200 points (joking, but come on - it won't be cheap). You can't say I want the perfect, ideal carrier in game for Rebels because the Imps just got one pretty close to it. Where's the fun in playing if every ship is absolutely perfect at its role?

Being able to alpha strike with 7 FCed squads with Adar Talon (or FC) and Toryn Farr after you've flaked/fired and moved is too much to ask for.

It could be cheap though... if it were weak in other areas. Look at the Quasar, which is, what I will call, the perfect carrier. It has 3 titles that all support carrier operations, and all the upgrade slots you really need. And it's moderately weak for regular combat, and is also cheap. But it's also got a few other things going for it. It has a Red Flak die, and has fairly good maneuverability as well... So the only way a Rebel version would end up being more expensive is if they did go ahead and make it have a squadron value of 5 I suppose.

I'll scale my wish back to 4, or maybe just hope for a "Stolen" Quasar option for the rebels someday, which would both scratch my itch, and also be thematic.

The real reason I want the hard printed squadron value of 4 is that with expanded hangar bay and Leia as commander I can hit 6 Z-95s with Flight Controllers from the same ship. Can't hit 6 of em with a printed value of 3.... and I don't want to bring 5 Z-95s... it just irks me to bring an odd number of squadrons.

3 minutes ago, Crabbok said:

It could be cheap though... if it were weak in other areas. Look at the Quasar, which is, what I will call, the perfect carrier. It has 3 titles that all support carrier operations, and all the upgrade slots you really need. And it's moderately weak for regular combat, and is also cheap. But it's also got a few other things going for it. It has a Red Flak die, and has fairly good maneuverability as well... So the only way a Rebel version would end up being more expensive is if they did go ahead and make it have a squadron value of 5 I suppose.

Indeed, it could only be cheap if were scaled back. Perhaps a scatter-less 3-hull flotilla with all those upgrades would be cheap, but the alpha (or omega) strike that you desire would have to have some serious disadvantages to be priced fairly. A ship with the upgrades you describe (minus support and second officer) with a printed squad value of 4 may be cheap enough to be introduced and still be resistant to something stronger than a glance.

Scatterless Flotillas are a great idea. In fact I'm hoping we see more flotillas that could end up going in different directions...

Like perhaps new base sizes... or those bombers from the Episode 8 trailer... an Artillery based flotilla.

2 minutes ago, Crabbok said:

Scatterless Flotillas are a great idea. In fact I'm hoping we see more flotillas that could end up going in different directions...

Like perhaps new base sizes... or those bombers from the Episode 8 trailer... an Artillery based flotilla.

Out of likes, but I wholeheartedly support the idea of scatter-less flotillas.

42 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

The "If they don't move" is still a difficulty that's not stated there.

With All fighters follow me, Fighter Coordination Teams, and Relay not moving is really not an issue anymore. I will admit it still takes a specific build to get it to work but that build is still a proven competitive one. Plus you cant underestimate the ability to have the same unique squadron...like Luke...to fire twice and then a third time with Adar Talon.

2 minutes ago, Overdawg said:

With All fighters follow me, Fighter Coordination Teams, and Relay not moving is really not an issue anymore. I will admit it still takes a specific build to get it to work but that build is still a proven competitive one. Plus you cant underestimate the ability to have the same unique squadron...like Luke...to fire twice and then a third time with Adar Talon.

But that's furthering my point.

Its not "squadron command, done."

Yavaris is more difficult to do.

There's a lot more moving parts. Its not just a squadorn command. That's why they're very tricky to directly compare.

The Comparison is between a Quasar, and Yavaris... Not Yavaris, A Pelta, a few Upgrades on the Pelta, a specific Admiral, et al.

Yavaris is Undeniably better in those best of circumstances - which is why we keep seeing it in those circumstances.

But its not going to be as "plug and play ubiquitous" as a Quasar and a bunch of squadrons...

45 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

The "If they don't move" is still a difficulty that's not stated there.

Fighter coordination teams and Flight Commander are laughing at such a restriction. Those two cards effectively erase Yavaris' one drawback.

The reason why it's better to get more activation out of fewer fighters is because you leverage more attack power out of aces with a special effect. For instance, Keyan Farlander attacking into an unshielded arc twice, or Nym firing into the same target twice and getting crits on both instances. Isn't that great, compared to the alpha strike of five generic fighters shooting one time? Even better with a card like Adar tallon, allowing such an ace to attack three times. In terms of Fighter support upgrade cards, the Empire has nothing on what the Rebellion can field.

I'm amazed and a little disgusted when I see threads like this, where Rebel players whine about needing better carriers... you already have the better fighter selection of the two sides. If you had the perfect carrier, why ever bother fielding larger ships then? If we Empire players have to suffer with half our ship selections being easily out-swarmed and shot down by the rebel MSU and fighter swarms, you'll have to suffer with inefficient carriers while having dreamboat self-sufficient fighters that can take all comers. I mean, with it you're already buying more deployments and more activations to leave our heavier ships flat-footed. Once Empire players have a way around being out-deployed and being out-activated, both by cheaper fighters and small ships, then I'd be willing to hear the case for giving them the better carrier.

Still not a fair comparison:

"6 Squadrons moving as far as they want and attacking"

versus

"3 Squadrons moving distance 1 and then attacking twice"

It still takes more coordination. It still takes more headaches.

It is undeniably better. But its still not as easy or as straightforward. Nor should it be.

This is why I'm not clamoring for a Rebel Quasar. Its not necessary.

(Not to mention having to buy a Goddamn Imperial Interdictor for my Rebels to be able to do that! )

14 minutes ago, Norsehound said:

The reason why it's better to get more activation out of fewer fighters is because you leverage more attack power out of aces with a special effect. For instance, Keyan Farlander attacking into an unshielded arc twice, or Nym firing into the same target twice and getting crits on both instances. Isn't that great, compared to the alpha strike of five generic fighters shooting one time? Even better with a card like Adar tallon, allowing such an ace to attack three times. In terms of Fighter support upgrade cards, the Empire has nothing on what the Rebellion can field.

I don't think that's a fair comparison. Saying Rebels have it better when you are taking expensive bomber aces and then comparing that to 5 Tie/F. Not a big surprise taking the Rebel aces is the better option.

What about comparing Keyan, Nym and Luke pushed by FC FCT Yavaris taking on Ciena, Dengar, Howl, Soontir, Black, and Mauler pushed by a Kallus FC EHB Stronghold?