5 hours ago, a1bert said:

The RRG explicitly tells how the Pierce values are combined and taken into account when calculating damage. Because there is no explicit mention of how to combine Blast or Cleave, they are just abilities with the same name from different sources. Combining Cleave abilities would also not be thematic.

If you have activated Blast 1 and Blast 2 during an attack, and the target of an attack suffered damage from the attack, you perform the Blast abilities in the order of your choice after the attack resolves.

Combining Blast values before applying them would be a rules change, and require errata either to the core rules (and errata to core rules is to be avoided) or errata to Shrapnel Rounds allowing to combine Blast for that ability only.

Btw, it seems that Shrapnel Rounds can be used also when the target did not suffer damage to salvage something (else than recover strain) out of an attack that missed (uncancelled dodge or insufficient accuracy) or was blocked.

However, because Shrapnel Rounds does not have an modification slot, it cannot be combined with Under-Barrel HH-4, which is the only generic source of Blast afair.

So...technically he can also do blast 2 like Fenn now? Although Fenn can actually go up to blast 3 with rebel elite + underbarrel

Get that guy a 2-slot weapon + underbarrel + shrapnel

Also not sure 100% sure what you meant by "combine blast or cleave" - in real game play it's sort of assumed it's combined, except the exact rule doesn't say that way. For example, cleave 3 + cleave 2 CAN make the same figure suffer 5 damage, it's just that you don't say "cleave 5" (although it's usually better to check "is he dead after cleave 2/3?"), and "blast 1 + blast 1 + blast 1" CAN make the adjacent figure suffer 3 damage, it's just that we don't outright say "blast 3"

25 minutes ago, ricope said:

So...technically he can also do blast 2 like Fenn now? Although Fenn can actually go up to blast 3 with rebel elite + underbarrel

Get that guy a 2-slot weapon + underbarrel + shrapnel

Also not sure 100% sure what you meant by "combine blast or cleave" - in real game play it's sort of assumed it's combined, except the exact rule doesn't say that way. For example, cleave 3 + cleave 2 CAN make the same figure suffer 5 damage, it's just that you don't say "cleave 5" (although it's usually better to check "is he dead after cleave 2/3?"), and "blast 1 + blast 1 + blast 1" CAN make the adjacent figure suffer 3 damage, it's just that we don't outright say "blast 3"

The difference with cleave is that if you have Cleave 2 and Cleave 3, you can Cleave one figure for 5, or two figures for 2 and 3 each, but you can't cleave one figure for 1, another for 2, and another for 2. You have to split them up into the same values that they were gained in.

With Blast it hasn't normally been an issue, because it's always affected all figures and objects adjacent to the targeted space - you haven't been able to decide how to split it, it just always hits everything.

2 hours ago, Stompburger said:

The difference with cleave is that if you have Cleave 2 and Cleave 3, you can Cleave one figure for 5, or two figures for 2 and 3 each, but you can't cleave one figure for 1, another for 2, and another for 2. You have to split them up into the same values that they were gained in.

With Blast it hasn't normally been an issue, because it's always affected all figures and objects adjacent to the targeted space - you haven't been able to decide how to split it, it just always hits everything.

Yeah so what I'm saying is that if you have underbarrel + shrapnel, you CAN combine the auto-blast 1 (from shrapnel) and the barrel's ~:blast 1 (blast 1 + blast 1) into a blast 2, isn't that the case here? Hence my confusion about not being able to combine cleave & blast because I'm fairly certain you can

Same with cleave, you CAN combine them together if you want

2 minutes ago, ricope said:

Yeah so what I'm saying is that if you have underbarrel + shrapnel, you CAN combine the auto-blast 1 (from shrapnel) and the barrel's ~:blast 1 (blast 1 + blast 1) into a blast 2, isn't that the case here? Hence my confusion about not being able to combine cleave & blast because I'm fairly certain you can

Same with cleave, you CAN combine them together if you want

You don't combine Cleave. You perform one Cleave, then you perform another, separately. As a shorthand you can make the same figure other than the target suffer the sum of the cleaves, but if the figure gets defeated by the first, there may also be a gameplay difference. (e.g. Failsafe)

Also, the defeat of a figure through Cleave can provide an attack to a hostile figure (Parting Shot, Executor), which can defeat the attacker - the second Cleave would then not be resolved.

In the same way you perform one Blast, then another Blast. As a shorthand you can make all figures suffer the sum of the blast values, but there may be gameplay difference when the first Blast defeats a figure and changes line of sight to the second Blast. (For example allowing line of sight to Parting Shot.)

Yes, usually there is no difference, but the different Blast and Cleave abilities are separate and are resolved separately.

29 minutes ago, a1bert said:

the defeat of a figure through Cleave can provide an attack to a hostile figure (Parting Shot, Executor), which can defeat the attacker - the second Cleave would then not be resolved.

In the same way you perform one Blast, then another Blast. As a shorthand you can make all figures suffer the sum of the blast values, but there may be gameplay difference when the first Blast defeats a figure and changes line of sight to the second Blast. (For example allowing line of sight to Parting Shot.)

Those are interesting scenarios, never thought of that even though yes it's legal (nobody in my group used Shyla and Fenn usually just do flat out blast 3 whenever he can with Rebel elite + underbarrel)

I understand @a1bert's point about not combining separate blast abilities to be a combined total value. That may be rules as written, but I doubt they had this mechanic in mind when the RRG was written. At the time, there was no reason to specify that blast values from different abilities were combined. I would expect that to show up either in the errata or in the HotE rules. It just feels more intuitive to combine blast values for schrapnel rounds.

3 hours ago, Fightwookies said:

I understand @a1bert's point about not combining separate blast abilities to be a combined total value. That may be rules as written, but I doubt they had this mechanic in mind when the RRG was written. At the time, there was no reason to specify that blast values from different abilities were combined. I would expect that to show up either in the errata or in the HotE rules. It just feels more intuitive to combine blast values for schrapnel rounds.

It doesn't matter that past rules didn't gave future mechanics in mind, future mechanics should be written with present rules in mind.

It seems more thematic to me to have all the blasts be split up, that keeps the "shrapnel" pieces small and makes it feel more like what a real shrapnel is, 1-2 damage piece that flies extra far, not a 4-damage boulder hurtling at someone from the explosion.

1 hour ago, Tvboy said:

It doesn't matter that past rules didn't gave future mechanics in mind, future mechanics should be written with present rules in mind.

It seems more thematic to me to have all the blasts be split up, that keeps the "shrapnel" pieces small and makes it feel more like what a real shrapnel is, 1-2 damage piece that flies extra far, not a 4-damage boulder hurtling at someone from the explosion.

The way they wrote the card with blast "X" just makes me think they're going to combine it. I can't think of any blast 2 or higher skills in the game now (there probably are and if not, there could be in the future), so the variable part just doesn't make sense to me. If they don't stack, it makes even less sense to me to split an individual blast 2 skill into a single blast damage and a schrapnel damage.

It would not be my first false prediction if it does not turn out that way.

Does this allow Drokkatta to push large figures like Banthas, and Rancors?

I know it will probably be changed to adjacent hostile small figure, but I thought it would be funny to see her do that.

Obi-Wan can push large figures, so why not Drokkatta (also takes 4XP).

14 minutes ago, a1bert said:

Obi-Wan can push large figures, so why not Drokkatta (also takes 4XP).

And Murne can from the start with her Diplomats Blaster...

Unlike Chewie, Drokatta's wrath seems to involve heavy explosives.

Can massive figures be pushed?

Massive figures can be pushed. Thematically you would consider it not to be a literal push, more of an enforced reaction of the target figure.

(Large figures cannot be pushed diagonally, cannot rotate when pushed, and massive figures cannot enter spaces occupied by other massive figures. These would sometimes offer protection against a push.)

9 hours ago, Fightwookies said:

The way they wrote the card with blast "X" just makes me think they're going to combine it. I can't think of any blast 2 or higher skills in the game now (there probably are and if not, there could be in the future), so the variable part just doesn't make sense to me. If they don't stack, it makes even less sense to me to split an individual blast 2 skill into a single blast damage and a schrapnel damage.

It would not be my first false prediction if it does not turn out that way.

Well it's possible Drok can pick up a skill that can change one instance of Blast 1 into Blast 2, sort of like Rebel Elite except that Rebel Elite specifically effects Havoc Shot.

On a totally different note: did anyone else notice that Ko-Tun's fire support specialist doesn't require the friendly figure to be the one attacking?

Stay on her good side.

11 hours ago, Fightwookies said:

I can't think of any blast 2 or higher skills in the game now (there probably are and if not, there could be in the future), so the variable part just doesn't make sense to me.

IIRC General Weiss has a double surge ability for Blast 3.

9 minutes ago, turkishvancat said:

IIRC General Weiss has a double surge ability for Blast 3.

I think he meant that would be available to Drokkatta. There are a few for the Empire (AT-ST and elite Heavy Stormtroopers), but the only current option for the Heroes to gain Blast 2 or greater is Rebel Elite.

On 7/26/2017 at 4:48 PM, Fightwookies said:

feels petty to complain that we didn't get a preview of a 'fix', but here i am still waiting on Chewie to be a force in skirmish...

This is really as "Campaign only" announcement. They should have a Skirmish-focused announcement in a couple of weeks.

So I'm going to do a card by card again:

Shield Pack seems very dependent on when you pick it up: if you get it turn 1 then it'll save you a lot of damage, if you get it with a couple of turns to go you'll wish you got something else.

I've said before that one space of interact range can often decide who wins the game, Grappler pack gives two.

Both of those are time dependent which optimizes the usefulness of the already good Stockpile

Dig in is probably the worst of Ko-tun's revealed cards (which isn't saying much), +2 blocks is a lot but Ko-Tun looks potentially very strain heavy.

Fire Support Specialist is another strong strain effect. I don't use precise strike that much but that's 2 strain on (possibly) the most strain heavy character in the game and is melee only (dancing weapon aside). This is 1 strain and can apply to any character with a token (Drokatta gets one every turn with charged up and you're getting 2 per 1 strain from Ko-tun herself so they're fairly accessible).

Squad Cohesion does so much, four free wild tokens is great, so is allowing sharing of the tokens and so is turning all tokens wild (effectively). Note the synergy with FSS.

Self Sufficient can effectively give Ko-tun +2 damage on every attack (or some-such). That's very, very good.

To start with with Jarrod I'm immediately concerned by an apparently melee guy with only 10 health. But the more I think about it the more I think it'll be okay because parry, if you want you can parry twice each turn (as soon as you have a second melee weapon) which is a lot of extra health, especially if you can get evades that are better than blocks.

I'm not sure how often the top half of Scout's Loadout will be useful, imperial figures don't get evades that often, the bottom half can be mitigated by killing Jax. I don't think it's that great.

Slicer's Upgrades gives you an additional interact, an auto pass on 1 difficulty skill checks or a good amount of damage on an object. It seems great.

Interesting observation: Balanced Approach doesn't say "use an action to..." I don't know if it would ever come up but if he somehow performed a rest, move or attack without spending an action during his turn then that would stop that part of the effect triggering. I love cards like this but I think it is one of the worse ones, it comes at the end of the turn and it the way it works is that what you get won't stack with what you did during your turn.

Leaping Slash is a pseudo Gaarkhan charge, the question is how valuable the added attack is and for that we need to see the claws. Charge is very strong though so leaping slash definitely has value.

Mechanical Master not only helps handle Jarrods squishyness but focus on jax's attacks is quite a lot of extra damage and activating twice doubles his value.

Dispersal shot is a highlight of Drokatta's kit, it means that you'll never miss out on that key surge.

Charging Up is really nice, it's an extra damage each turn and extra health for only 1 xp.

Wookie Wrath is a melee effect on a ranged hero, which is ugly, the red dice is much better than the green that we normally see in such effects but I still don't think the ability will be worth buying (or if it is then that says bad things about Drokatta).

Shrapnel Rounds is pretty nice: blast on every attack is nice and being able to turn blast into kind of cleave makes it better. On the rules debate: the card clearly intends for blast to stack (observe "the Blast"), I would expect an errata (or a ruling) to allow blast to be stacked.

Repeating Cannon is more comparable to tier two ranged weapons that tier 3 ones; since Drokatta really looks like a primary ranged damage dealer I think that he'll want the best weapon he can.

Baseline 88-Z is an annoyance, he's hard to kill (especially if the Ip keeps him far away from their other figures), adds a strain more often than not and occasionally adds another damage. It'll be interesting to see if their are ways to redeploy him if he dies).

Sentry droids are better than they look initially: two of them have more expected damage (when attacking twice each) than three stormtroopers, more health and aren't as vulnerable to blast or cleave. Of course stormtroopers aren't that great as a thing to be comparing to but it's something.

88-Z placing shield tokens everywhere will make him even more annoying, mitigating 1 damage every turn is pretty decent to. Shielded is a decent 1 xp card.

Surge power tokens will be hugely dependent on the troops you have, adding a surge before attacking will often result in a surplus except for things like heavy stormtroopers. For this reason I think the top of Mechanical Protocol will be meh. The bottom is obliviously nice, I've always been fond of elite probe droids and damage on them is nice.

Remote Activator definitely won't be the first thing you buy, an extra attack or move with 88-Z isn't worth the xp. If the missing special actions are good enough it'll be excellent though.

Manifest Aggression adds consistent damage. It'll be an interesting minigame to see an IP wanting to give tokens at the start of the turn to get the full damage then heroes trying to kill them before they activate.

Unnatural abilities just makes a group better. Anyone who's played against subversive tactics knows how annoying free evades can be, it can also make it much more difficult to kill a probe droid or e-web (and I'm not even talking about villains here). Defensively its probably better on a group but they're much less likely to be able to use the damage bonus.

Embrace Hate reads like it triggers on every imperial figure who can see the chosen rebel figure. That's a big deal but it could be a bit of a liability since your own figures will keep taking damage. The top half is just a significant annoyance for the heroes.

Embrace Suffering is terrifying: pushing a hero 2 spaces every turn is insane and if you're willing to spend the threat attacking with a hero can be a huge deal. This is a card that I think might be genuinely op.

19 hours ago, Norgrath said:

To start with with Jarrod I'm immediately concerned by an apparently melee guy with only 10 health. But the more I think about it the more I think it'll be okay because parry, if you want you can parry twice each turn (as soon as you have a second melee weapon) which is a lot of extra health, especially if you can get evades that are better than blocks.

Besides Parry (which is very strong) he will probably get some other defensive abilities. But you also have to remember that it will be very tempting for the imperial to attack Jax instead of him, which in a way gives him more effective health.

19 hours ago, Norgrath said:

Embrace Hate reads like it triggers on every imperial figure who can see the chosen rebel figure. That's a big deal but it could be a bit of a liability since your own figures will keep taking damage. The top half is just a significant annoyance for the heroes.

Oh. I hadn't realized that. It looked terrible for a 3XP card, but giving those tokens to all figures with LOS to that hero is a big deal. Like you said, maybe still not worth it, but it seems scary.

19 hours ago, Norgrath said:

Embrace Suffering is terrifying: pushing a hero 2 spaces every turn is insane and if you're willing to spend the threat attacking with a hero can be a huge deal. This is a card that I think might be genuinely op.

Yeah, this seems like a very good card, but I don't think it's OP. You can play around the attack (position your best attackers so they don't have LOS to other heroes), and make sure to exhaust all your attack abilities so the Imperial can't use those.

7 hours ago, Stompburger said:

Besides Parry (which is very strong) he will probably get some other defensive abilities. But you also have to remember that it will be very tempting for the imperial to attack Jax instead of him, which in a way gives him more effective health.

Oh. I hadn't realized that. It looked terrible for a 3XP card, but giving those tokens to all figures with LOS to that hero is a big deal. Like you said, maybe still not worth it, but it seems scary.

Yeah, this seems like a very good card, but I don't think it's OP. You can play around the attack (position your best attackers so they don't have LOS to other heroes), and make sure to exhaust all your attack abilities so the Imperial can't use those.

I'm pretty sure the Imperial player would not be able to use your abilities. Only an attack with your attack pool, surge abilities and persistent abilities..

On 7/30/2017 at 6:31 AM, Norgrath said:

Embrace Hate reads like it triggers on every imperial figure who can see the chosen rebel figure. That's a big deal but it could be a bit of a liability since your own figures will keep taking damage. The top half is just a significant annoyance for the heroes.

I don't think that's the case because "An imperial figure" and "that imperial figure" are singular. Usually when there is more than one eligible figure/object/token, the player with the ability chooses which one to use.

33 minutes ago, neosmagus said:

I'm pretty sure the Imperial player would not be able to use your abilities. Only an attack with your attack pool, surge abilities and persistent abilities..

FAQ said:

· Some abilities allow players to perform an attack with a hostile
figure. To resolve such an attack, the player resolving the
ability controls the hostile figure for the duration of that attack.

When Murne controls an imperial figure, all of the the figure's abilities can be used (except the ones that require friendly figures because the controlled figure is hostile to all figures and all figures are hostile to the controlled figure). The same applies here.

(But like I said elsewhere, it's only once per round, and costs threat. Also, most abilities and weapon modifications should be exhausted, and no during-your-activation abilities can be used.)

1 minute ago, a1bert said:

I don't think that's the case because "An imperial figure" and "that imperial figure" are singular. Usually when there is more than one eligible figure/object/token, the player with the ability chooses which one to use.

The thing is the wording is non-complete: pedantically you can't just infer the option to make the choice and "If an imperial figure..." doesn't care which imperial figure so there's no automatic implication of which.

The wording should surely either be "You choose an imperial figure with line of sight to that hero..." or "Each imperial figure with line of sight to that hero..."

8 minutes ago, a1bert said:

When Murne controls an imperial figure, all of the the figure's abilities can be used (except the ones that require friendly figures because the controlled figure is hostile to all figures and all figures are hostile to the controlled figure). The same applies here.

Including strain and exhaust abilities?

Hmm... Its a bit different to controlling an Imperial figure because Murne wouldn't be able to spend threat or exhaust Imperial class cards, right? I figured the inverse would be the same...

1 minute ago, neosmagus said:

Including strain and exhaust abilities?

Hmm... Its a bit different to controlling an Imperial figure because Murne wouldn't be able to spend threat or exhaust Imperial class cards, right? I figured the inverse would be the same...

Strain and exhaust abilities are hero abilities, not player abilities.

Imperial class cards that are attachments (can be exhaust) and attached to the deployment card of the figure are abilities of the figure (and can be used by the controlled figure), the rest are the imperial player's abilities, and still controlled by the imperial player - although if they contain mandatory abilities, they still apply.

So, in that way controlling a hero and an imperial figure are different.