Yeah i'm fine with the way it is but if it was the other way around it would still feel correct.

4 minutes ago, shineyorkboy said:

The true spelling is Stuart of Law. Clearly he's a legal minded English King.

I think you'll find he was Scottish first

7 minutes ago, Mig el Pig said:

Yeah i'm fine with the way it is but if it was the other way around it would still feel correct.

Is this referring to my post? If so, I don't think tying Phoenix to Fate and Dragon to Elements would still feel as right. To me, the distinction design made was the right one.

8 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

I think you'll find he was Scottish first

Yes, but you can blame the French for the spelling change.

1 minute ago, shineyorkboy said:

Yes, but you can blame the French for the spelling change.

Having looked into that time, we're lucky he wasn't called Aeneas Stuart.

And we should probably end thus wide digression now. To keep things harmonious.

15 hours ago, BCumming said:

If you focus entirely on your strengths, you can only blame yourself when you run into a card that exploits your weaknesses.

Mori kuroi have 4 STR + 2 STR from the stronghold makes 6

You need at least 9 fate to play 3 Lion non-bushi (and they need to appear in the same turn into your provinces), then you will have something like 10 POL. (don't tell me about ornate fan in Lion deck plz)

Then you need your Phoenix opponent to make only 4 Political and don't use any card from hand.

You expect at least 2 or 3 phoenix chars to defend... (will easily make 5-8 POL)

Almost all phoenix characters if honored hold the province alone without great difficulties, the clan is strong in POL and honoring.

I'm not saying is impossible a Lion brake a province with POL, but is very very hard to work (in the last province).

It just seems to me that a province that works every time you attack it changing the type of conflict need to have a way to break.

So makes sense to me if when the province change the conflict type it allow you to declare a MIL conflict in your next attack (assuming you can't fight 2 conflicts of the same kind as a attacker), the hability is still strong once you have to divide your troops.

So, Let's wait the rules, it's all expeculation.

1 minute ago, L5RBr said:

Almost all phoenix characters if honored hold the province alone without great difficulties, the clan is strong in POL and honoring.

I'm not saying is impossible a Lion brake a province with POL, but is very very hard to work.

I would argue that Lion is stronger than pheonix in the honoring department. Lion have several personalities that self honor, some as soon as they come into play. Pheonix has what, an attachment that gives Pride (which a lion character has innately) and a character that honors someone after the first character wins a conflict? Also, Phoenix is more balanced. I did a quick pass through their cards (only the ones previewed yesterday) and Phoenix have 2 cards with pol greater than mil, 2 carachters with mil greater than pol and the rest were equal. I'm not saying the phoenix province isn't strong (I think its the strongest one previewed) but maybe wait til actual testing is done before declaring that Lion can't beat it. Because if thats the case then crab can't beat it either because I think Crab have less pol than lion does and also doesn't have the glory to make up for it.

8 hours ago, BordOne said:

I don't know where this "3/2/2 are weak stats for 3 fate" meme comes from. If she had 1 more political she would have the best stats for a 3 drop in the game. 3/2/2 is actually slightly above average(1/3/X or less I would say are weak stats for 3 cost). Yeah the ability can be played around - but its purpose is to defend shugenja. If opponent is playing around it, it means he is not getting rid of your mages. The only negative is that if you dont have any shugenja it does nothing

I don't agree with that for a number of reasons. The first is the idea that she could have been printed with a higher stat. I'm not concerned with what a card could have been printed with, only with what they are actually printed with.

Second, there are a number of other characters with better stats for the same, or equivalent cost, like the Borderlands Sentry, Doji Challenger, or even the Mirumoto Prodigy for a fate cheaper.

There's also the problem of the current shugenja pool and general lack of ones that you'd really want to use 3 fate to potentially protect. Namely only the two unique ones.

The biggest problem is the non-shugenja in the clan that are better inclusions than some of the shugenja like our 2 drop courtier, the Serene Warrior, the clan champion, and so on.

What this card, and other Phoenix cards, need is an attachment or event that gives out the shugenja keyword.

37 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

I don't agree with that for a number of reasons. The first is the idea that she could have been printed with a higher stat. I'm not concerned with what a card could have been printed with, only with what they are actually printed with.

Second, there are a number of other characters with better stats for the same, or equivalent cost, like the Borderlands Sentry, Doji Challenger, or even the Mirumoto Prodigy for a fate cheaper.

There's also the problem of the current shugenja pool and general lack of ones that you'd really want to use 3 fate to potentially protect. Namely only the two unique ones.

The biggest problem is the non-shugenja in the clan that are better inclusions than some of the shugenja like our 2 drop courtier, the Serene Warrior, the clan champion, and so on.

What this card, and other Phoenix cards, need is an attachment or event that gives out the shugenja keyword.

1) Not every card is going to be great. Part of the challenge of building a deck for these games is identifying which cards are great, and which are not. If you feel you have identified a bad card, congratulations. If others don't agree, then we'll have to wait and see the results. Bad cards exist, and sorta need to exist on some level, but its hard to say definitively until they show their merit in game.

2) Borderlands Defender and Mirumoto Prodigy both have only 1 glory. This Yojimbo has 2 glory. IF you can get it honored then it is stronger than these other examples. Doji Challenger may still be a match, but isn't it always? There is always some janky "best in category." There is no reason to be hung up on it. Every card cannot be strictly better than every card before it. The Yojimbo's ability is very strong though. She doesn't have to be ready, or in the conflict, and she doesn't bow or die for her effect. When you have someone like Isawa Atsuko in a conflict this ability could be what saves the day.

3) idk about events / attachments that give Shugenja trait. In ol5r this was a very rare thing because being a Shugenja isn't like picking up a sword or a fan. It's about speaking with the Kami. There are 40 cards in the Dynasty deck and there are no gold holdings crowding it out, I don't think we'll have trouble fitting a mix of Shugenja and Yojimbo in there...

2 minutes ago, shosuko said:

1) Not every card is going to be great. Part of the challenge of building a deck for these games is identifying which cards are great, and which are not. If you feel you have identified a bad card, congratulations. If others don't agree, then we'll have to wait and see the results. Bad cards exist, and sorta need to exist on some level.

Heck, part of the fun of building decks can be trying to find a way to make a bad card good. Or at least less bad.

48 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

I don't agree with that for a number of reasons. The first is the idea that she could have been printed with a higher stat. I'm not concerned with what a card could have been printed with, only with what they are actually printed with.

Kewl. Don't worry I was just pointing out that if she had one more politics she would have the best stats for the cost in the game. Doesn't really support your "weaker stats" claim.

48 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

Second, there are a number of other characters with better stats for the same, or equivalent cost, like the Borderlands Sentry, Doji Challenger, or even the Mirumoto Prodigy for a fate cheaper.

Of whom: Doji challenger is kinda widely believed to be overstatted for her cost, Borderlands Defender(I assume you are speaking about her) has the same stats 3/3/1 to 3/2/2(albeit slightly, only slightly better distribution), and Mirumoto Prodigy is a 2/2/1 so not even close(and even before change she was only 3/2/1).

So right now there are like 2 characters in the game with better stats than her(one of which only slightly better). Doesn't sound like "weaker stats" to me.

48 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

There's also the problem of the current shugenja pool and general lack of ones that you'd really want to use 3 fate to potentially protect. Namely only the two unique ones.

The biggest problem is the non-shugenja in the clan that are better inclusions than some of the shugenja like our 2 drop courtier, the Serene Warrior, the clan champion, and so on.

What this card, and other Phoenix cards, need is an attachment or event that gives out the shugenja keyword.

It doesn't really need to "protect" from anything, there are very little kill effects in the game right now. As long as it makes them unable to reslove For Shame or Rout or a plethora of other events/ actions(even on "small" shugenjas), which lets you win the conflict, it is worth it. And as I hope we have established she has a respectable body of her own, so you are not really paying a high price for that.

As to cutting shugenjas you barely have enough characters to make a proper deck out of the core. Fire, water, earth and air all of these shugenjas are pretty good cards(maybe I would think a bit if I want to play 3 of air girl, but than I remember stronghold and I don't know why I even considered cutting her), especially with ring manipulation.

So yeah

I can say one of my favorite things is that pretty much every clan brought forward has had the reaction, "This is the big clan that will be the best meta clan"

3 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

I can say one of my favorite things is that pretty much every clan brought forward has had the reaction, "This is the big clan that will be the best meta clan"

Yep, each one they've spoiled has been better than the last, apparently. Which bodes well for ponies!

4 minutes ago, Casanunda said:

Yep, each one they've spoiled has been better than the last, apparently. Which bodes well for ponies!

I am okay with being the second best clan.

6 minutes ago, Casanunda said:

Yep, each one they've spoiled has been better than the last, apparently. Which bodes well for ponies!

But what does that say for Crane, or Lion? Are they getting less good as we see more of the game?

7 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

But what does that say for Crane, or Lion? Are they getting less good as we see more of the game?

Nah, both Crane and Lion can handle themselves just fine against Crab and Dragon. If anything with the reveal of more neutral cards they got better.

4 minutes ago, blackheartz said:

Nah, both Crane and Lion can handle themselves just fine against Crab and Dragon. If anything with the reveal of more neutral cards they got a better.

Aside from Unicorn, I'm looking forward to the neutral reveals the most. I've BEEN looking forward to the neutrals. IMHO, it'll give a better look at what the game is going to be like overall than the clan-specific ones.

8 minutes ago, blackheartz said:

Nah, both Crane and Lion can handle themselves just fine against Crab and Dragon. If anything with the reveal of more neutral cards they got a better.

I think they feel bland as we see more though. Crane ->strong politics and can honor. Lion -> Swarm military. Dragon awesome fate to rings and better dueling, awesome attachments. Crab -> cool sacrifice and defense mechanics. Phoenix control and ring manipulation. I'm looking forward to Scorpion, but also interested in Unicorn to see what unique mechanics they may get, but probably lot's of agro.

4 minutes ago, wolfien8 said:

I think they feel bland as we see more though. Crane ->strong politics and can honor. Lion -> Swarm military. Dragon awesome fate to rings and better dueling, awesome attachments. Crab -> cool sacrifice and defense mechanics. Phoenix control and ring manipulation. I'm looking forward to Scorpion, but also interested in Unicorn to see what unique mechanics they may get, but probably lot's of agro.

And rightly so - the Lion and Crane are the most stereotypical of the clans. They are supposed to be more straight forward, and that does not make them less powerful just less complex. While this is true now, that doesn't mean they won't develop more complex layers as the game is developed over time.

7 minutes ago, wolfien8 said:

I think they feel bland as we see more though. Crane ->strong politics and can honor. Lion -> Swarm military. Dragon awesome fate to rings and better dueling, awesome attachments. Crab -> cool sacrifice and defense mechanics. Phoenix control and ring manipulation. I'm looking forward to Scorpion, but also interested in Unicorn to see what unique mechanics they may get, but probably lot's of agro.

Yeah, I don't think the clans are getting more powerful; it's just that each clan is doing rather different things, which is keeping every new clan fresh and exciting. For Lion and Crane, they'll get their cool stuff eventually, but in the base set they're just a bit more straightforward. It was probably necessary to have a couple clans be the more straightforward clans for people just learning the game, and Lion and Crane were the lucky picks.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing, though! For one thing, I'm sure they'll both see cool decks develop in time. More importantly, many people gravitate towards the first clan they play, so Lion and Crane have a little bit of an advantage in recruiting new loyalists!

I still enjoy playing Lion, they do have a few fun tricks (especially now that Charge! has been spoiled) and breaking provinces is generally a snap, especially in the first few turns. Going to Crab after Lion you start to think "Dang, when did breaking provinces get so hard?". Until Kisada shows up and beats face. That's when the fun starts.

1 minute ago, Casanunda said:

I still enjoy playing Lion, they do have a few fun tricks (especially now that Charge! has been spoiled) and breaking provinces is generally a snap, especially in the first few turns. Going to Crab after Lion you start to think "Dang, when did breaking provinces get so hard?". Until Kisada shows up and beats face. That's when the fun starts.

Think that might be because Crab is more defensively-minded? I see Crab as having more of a come-and-get-me approach.

2 hours ago, L5RBr said:

Mori kuroi have 4 STR + 2 STR from the stronghold makes 6

You need at least 9 fate to play 3 Lion non-bushi (and they need to appear in the same turn into your provinces), then you will have something like 10 POL. (don't tell me about ornate fan in Lion deck plz)

Then you need your Phoenix opponent to make only 4 Political and don't use any card from hand.

You expect at least 2 or 3 phoenix chars to defend... (will easily make 5-8 POL)

Almost all phoenix characters if honored hold the province alone without great difficulties, the clan is strong in POL and honoring.

I'm not saying is impossible a Lion brake a province with POL, but is very very hard to work (in the last province).

It just seems to me that a province that works every time you attack it changing the type of conflict need to have a way to break.

So makes sense to me if when the province change the conflict type it allow you to declare a MIL conflict in your next attack (assuming you can't fight 2 conflicts of the same kind as a attacker), the hability is still strong once you have to divide your troops.

So, Let's wait the rules, it's all expeculation.

They actually already cleared this up.

It works on declarations, not resolutions. So if you declare a military conflict and it gets switched to political, you can't declare another military conflict that turn, regardless of the fact that it was changed to, and resolved as, a political conflict.

2 hours ago, L5RBr said:

You need at least 9 fate to play 3 Lion non-bushi (and they need to appear in the same turn into your provinces), then you will have something like 10 POL. (don't tell me about ornate fan in Lion deck plz)

Ornate fan in Lion is awesome. Drop it on my steady samurai, and I have a 1 cost guy with 3/5 pol attack that is never going to go away.

4 minutes ago, Isawa Kioshi said:

They actually already cleared this up.

It works on declarations, not resolutions. So if you declare a military conflict and it gets switched to political, you can't declare another military conflict that turn, regardless of the fact that it was changed to, and resolved as, a political conflict.

I'm not aware of when they cleared this up, I was under the impression this was still an unanswered question. To my knowledge, the only reference to declaring conflicts was in an FFG article, which are not meant to be a definitive rules answer.

13 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

Think that might be because Crab is more defensively-minded? I see Crab as having more of a come-and-get-me approach.

You still have to break provinces to win, though. Dishonour is hard to pull off, your opponent has to walk into it.