16 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

Jamming Fields + Gallant Haven.

Well-escorted Ten Numb.

I faced a combination of these with my Sloane list a few weeks ago and it was H***. It was well flown and made an absolutely perfect counter to my swarm. I hope I never run into it again.

MC30s and Gladiators.

I haven't had any trouble using Sloane to deal with Gladiators. I just make inbound Glads the focus of my rage and they melt. MC30s however are another story. Those double redirects and the Admonition title make them much more capable of standing up to Sloane swarms than Gladiators are. I would still rather face a bunch of MC30s than either of the first two monsters you listed.

18 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

Rather than just saying nay as is my wont, things that scare me as somebody playing 134 points of Sloane scatter aces + interceptors:

How common is that? Most of the Sloane I've seen is more in the 80 point range, but that could just be the local meta.

Depending on which of our experiences is more common, it could explain some of the disconnect in the thread. If you're thinking of a Sloane list as 130+ points, and someone else thinks of a Sloane list as 80 points, you're going to have very different intuitions to the effectiveness of things like Ten Numb or Gallant Haven.

2 hours ago, svelok said:

How common is that? Most of the Sloane I've seen is more in the 80 point range, but that could just be the local meta.

Depending on which of our experiences is more common, it could explain some of the disconnect in the thread. If you're thinking of a Sloane list as 130+ points, and someone else thinks of a Sloane list as 80 points, you're going to have very different intuitions to the effectiveness of things like Ten Numb or Gallant Haven.

That's true that you would have very different experiences against those two builds. My question is, why would you ever not bring 120+ points of squadrons if you're using Sloane?

If you, as the opponent, are only running into 80-point Sloane lists, it should be a pretty easy matchup that doesn't particularly need to be countered.

3 hours ago, Megatronrex said:

Yeah, can't say I've actually faced Glads with it... I pretty much just assume they're gonna be as nasty as MC30's.

22 hours ago, IronNerd said:

Picking out a few keys that I'd like to talk about, having just come off a big loss to Sloane aces last night and trying to get that sour taste out of my mouth. I was running a CR90 swarm with a pretty small screen (I was Riekann and brought Shara and Green squadron, plus a VCX).

First, can the Glads live long enough to kill the carriers? Obviously Gladiators are far more survivable than Vettes, but ships were flying off the table for me. Part of that is me playing my nemesis who always rolls just right to kill me, but it felt like it would have been tough with any small based ships to survive. MC30s I can see, as there are enough shields and redundant redirects, but not sure on Glads.

As to the other point, I figured that I could feed his group Shara on one turn and Green on the other, then use blue flak (with Toryn) to clean up the field. In reality he killed all my fighters in one turn and only exposed himself to AA from two ships. I did some damage, but mostly I just stripped scatters and watched his squadrons fly off with but a scratch. It's too difficult to overlap 4 or 5 AA fields AND do something else meaningful with your fleet. In short, I agree with you on those two points. Sloane loves to kill enemy aces.

Appreciating I made errors, it was my first time flying this fleet, it felt like one heck of an uphill battle. I keep thinking about effective counters and most of my ideas include at least 100 points in squadrons, and I'm one of those guys that really dislikes the squadron game. Not sure what to do about it... but it sort of seems like we traded Riekann aceholes for Sloane aceholes...

I promise I don't mean this as harsh as it can sound, but I'm going to quote @Snipafist here, and say that Sloane is a "best case scenario engine", and that you gave it to her. In a Sloane game, what you need to remember is that she is not, contrary to her alpha strike tendencies, actually an admiral who uses true active initiative. She is fully a reactive admiral. Sloane fleets work by hitting you hard enough you crack, sliding their fingers into the crack, then using those fingers to rip your armor off and beat you to death with it. Put another way, she exploits opportunities her opponent creates by using her ability to exaggerate flaws or mistakes. Against a CR90 swarm, there is no real armor to crack. My squadron ball (and I would imagine an Aces High or Interceptor build like @Tokra or @Ardaedhel use can probably imitate mine here) can will with only mediocre rolls completely obliterate a CR90/Raider per turn, and that's before I unleash whatever my heavy hitter is (ISD, DCap VSD, sometimes Demolisher). Three squadrons, even if two of them were Tycho and Shara, are not to seriously slow me down; they'll buy you a turn, and maybe put one Defender out of commission, tops.

There are things that Sloane fleets in my experience don't like. Being outactivated is not one of them, because most will focus on the quality of activation, and can easily level that playing field if the flotillas aren't hiding in the corner. Being second against a fleet that can jam them up, with or without last/first is one though. Sloane is definitely a "best case scenario engine", but that engine is like a King Tiger tank. It's hideously deadly, but it's also far from invulnerable, and it's not all that hard to jam up. MC30s (that don't get caught by blocker flotillas in front of the heavy hitter) can very easily sprint in, blow up the Quasar/a couple Gozantis, and run away faster than my stranded squadrons can catch them. Gladiators can PROBABLY pull off the same trick most of the time, but you are a lot less likely to have them fly away if they don't have last/first and something to tie up the squadrons.*

The other thing Sloane really hates, and first player helps here, is anyone with armor thick enough she can't crack it and just breaks her fist when she punches. I know many when she was announced saw her as the savior against Rieekan Aceholes, and she can do better than some, but she really doesn't help a whole **** of a lot here. Gallant Haven in particular is very good at ensuring that whatever damage is left over from a Sloane attack doesn't really hurt your victim anyway. GH lists with first player, as both of my games in the Autumn Tournament against @Roquax demonstrate rather well, can force a Sloane player into something of a pickle, because if we alpha strike per doctrine, GH will shrug it off and just tap Yavaris twice before you can go again, causing hilarious/horrifying casualties and neutralizing Sloane's edge. Hopefully this helps some.

*YMWV, Glads are very hit or miss on dealing with Sloanes.

EDIT: It's me, GP. Chrome is being a pain, I'm definitely quoting Snipafist, not being him.

3 hours ago, svelok said:

How common is that? Most of the Sloane I've seen is more in the 80 point range, but that could just be the local meta.

Depending on which of our experiences is more common, it could explain some of the disconnect in the thread. If you're thinking of a Sloane list as 130+ points, and someone else thinks of a Sloane list as 80 points, you're going to have very different intuitions to the effectiveness of things like Ten Numb or Gallant Haven.

I've never seen an 80 pt Sloane squad ball do well. In mirror matches against 120+ of really any squad-heavy build they tend to buckle, and they often rely very heavily on the killer ship that they sacrificed squads to fit to pick up a lot of slack in the lethality department. I'm not going to say it's impossible, but they are much more delicate builds than a heavier squadron complement, and I don't think I would ever use them.

I'll add to what @GiledPallaeon had to say above (and disagreeing somewhat, but not on the basics) that it's been my experience against conventional Sloane that it's a Rube Golberg machine that needs a few things to line up to really seriously threaten targets and it much prefers to face fleets with a lot of points in one place so the token spending effect is stronger. Spending a redirect on a CR90 helps a little bit but it's not as effective as spending a brace on an HMC80, for example, and the bigger slower ships are also less capable of avoiding your Avenger or Demolisher or whatever hammer ship(s) you brought to capitalize on the spent tokens.

If you can't really get Sloane to come together (mild harassment damage + token spends + big beater capitalizing on spent tokens), it's a mediocre bomber fleet. Because the Sloane fleet is often a bit light on activations to fit everything in and relies on combos to some extent, it can have a hard time controlling the tempo against a higher activation fleet and thus is often better at harshly punishing mistakes than proactively forcing an opponent into a bad position like a more conventional Rieekan Ace Holes fleet would be (for example).

With that all said, it seems Sloane fleets are successful in metas where large ships are more common (enemy fleet has less activations and a juicy target for the token spends and the Sloane beater ship) and/or where heavy-squadron builds are more common (because the Sloane squadrons will for the same cost in carriers+squads generally blow through them and then still do something, making her squad-heavy approach beat out many other squad-heavy fleets). That's been my experience, anyways, and it seems to hold out when I talk to people about Sloane. Some metas are getting absolutely crushed by her and in others she seems to have fallen on her face for the most part.

34 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

EDIT: It's me, GP. Chrome is being a pain, I'm definitely quoting Snipafist, not being him.

Hey for what it's worth, if I had to appoint a forum impersonator for me, I'd likely appoint you and @Drasnighta to the team with some oversight from @geek19 and adding a bit of @Vergilius, haha.

I've run 80ish point Sloan fighter complament to pretty good results. Yeah it's not going to do as much damage as a 130 point worth of Sloan fighters, but you get another/better combat ship, and Sloan really wants combat ships to help her fighters strip defeance tokens. When I have run up against other large fighter groups even Sloan groups I almost always win the squadron game, and if not I have significantly reduced the other players firepower as they invested a lot into there fighters to do damage, and my combat ships are still able to deal with the remaining capital ships. If my opponent takes light fighter coverage or no fighters I still get value out of my fighters. But to answer the question this fourm is about Mauler and tie bombers pushed with a quasar-II with ruthless is pretty brutal for a Sloan list.

41 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

I'll add to what @GiledPallaeon had to say above (and disagreeing somewhat, but not on the basics) that it's been my experience against conventional Sloane that it's a Rube Golberg machine that needs a few things to line up to really seriously threaten targets and it much prefers to face fleets with a lot of points in one place so the token spending effect is stronger. Spending a redirect on a CR90 helps a little bit but it's not as effective as spending a brace on an HMC80, for example, and the bigger slower ships are also less capable of avoiding your Avenger or Demolisher or whatever hammer ship(s) you brought to capitalize on the spent tokens.

If you can't really get Sloane to come together (mild harassment damage + token spends + big beater capitalizing on spent tokens), it's a mediocre bomber fleet. Because the Sloane fleet is often a bit light on activations to fit everything in and relies on combos to some extent, it can have a hard time controlling the tempo against a higher activation fleet and thus is often better at harshly punishing mistakes than proactively forcing an opponent into a bad position like a more conventional Rieekan Ace Holes fleet would be (for example).

With that all said, it seems Sloane fleets are successful in metas where large ships are more common (enemy fleet has less activations and a juicy target for the token spends and the Sloane beater ship) and/or where heavy-squadron builds are more common (because the Sloane squadrons will for the same cost in carriers+squads generally blow through them and then still do something, making her squad-heavy approach beat out many other squad-heavy fleets). That's been my experience, anyways, and it seems to hold out when I talk to people about Sloane. Some metas are getting absolutely crushed by her and in others she seems to have fallen on her face for the most part.

For starters, most of our disagreements sound like a combination of metas we played Sloane in and personal tactics. I don't know your playstyle, but I know I have a justly reserved reputation for being more of the "D*** the torpedoes!" sort of commander than the "Discretion is the better part of valor" variety. That is partially why I prefer facing Cracken/Mothma swarms, because coming in hot guns blazing is really the only way to deal with them. From a raw efficiency standpoint, Sloane adores fleets that hand her single large targets on a platter. The issue for me when I play in Marietta is anyone who still brings Large (or even Christmas-tree'd Mediums) around here, A. learned a long long time ago how to control tempo, and B. brings and knows how to use a decently stiff fighter screen. Both of those are fatal/crippling to Sloane fleets that can't raw outplay their opponent. The ISD/QF/Gozanti triad I prefer to fly is particularly susceptible to this.

As per usual, you've come along and found the phrase I spent thirty minutes typing trying to find and you make it sound effortless. (I hate you; teach me please.) Sloane fleets CANNOT, I repeat CANNOT, deal effectively with a fleet that disrupts their tempo, and that's easier than it sounds. Sloane fleets want to be moving, with squadrons killing or burning tokens, moving from victim to victim. If a Sloane fleet isn't doing damage, it's helpless, and that's one of the big things relieving a Sloane fleet of first player (when you have a fleet that can use it) can do to your opponent. Sloane is great at turning the tables and using the spin to send your hand of cards flying out of your actual hands. She has a decently difficult time keeping the table in that new orientation, and often appears to do it simply because she will win the battle (whether the game is over yet or not) before a lot of fleets can turn the table back around. That's what GH can do, just grip the table with a steel claw and say, "No, I like it right here," and watch Sloane tear a muscle trying. It's what a MC30 swarm with first player or an Ackbar gunline insufficiently weakened can do when they obliterate key ships with hails of dice and leave you stranded in space if you didn't see it coming.

Hopefully these metaphors make sense.

46 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

Hey for what it's worth, if I had to appoint a forum impersonator for me, I'd likely appoint you and @Drasnighta to the team with some oversight from @geek19 and adding a bit of @Vergilius, haha.

Sounds like a compliment to me.

PS Someone remind me over Christmas if I haven't gotten around to it yet to sit down and write out this active/reactive initiative thing rattling around in my head.

1 hour ago, GiledPallaeon said:

For starters, most of our disagreements sound like a combination of metas we played Sloane in and personal tactics. I don't know your playstyle, but I know I have a justly reserved reputation for being more of the "D*** the torpedoes!" sort of commander than the "Discretion is the better part of valor" variety. That is partially why I prefer facing Cracken/Mothma swarms, because coming in hot guns blazing is really the only way to deal with them. From a raw efficiency standpoint, Sloane adores fleets that hand her single large targets on a platter.

Yeah, the "Sloane seems to be very meta-dependent" theory has been the only conclusion I've come to that explains the vastly different perspectives I've heard about her, both here and elsewhere. I was running her for some time up here in Downers Grove against some decent players and while I did well enough it never really felt like I was delivering serious uppercuts like I could with other commanders and many of the other Sloane-experimentation Imperials felt the same. We tried lots of different squad and ship combinations and it just never came together into something that locally seemed to really be delivering the goods or defining the meta. That is likely in part due to some of our stronger local players preferring higher activation count fleets with less juicy targets in them for Sloane and crew and a generally squadron-light-to-moderate meta (although that's beginning to change as more locals begin playing a bit heavier on squadrons, and with some notable exceptions such as @geek19 and his love of Rebel squadrons).

In terms of playstyles up here we run a fairly wide variety, although I personally tend to prefer a more cagey aggressive defense style that gives me lots of options for how to react and hopefully exploit openings. That's also likely why Ozzel is a very appealing commander for me overall (although I play just about every commander here and there barring Konstantine or Tagge, Ozzel is my default for tournament play for the last year+).

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The issue for me when I play in Marietta is anyone who still brings Large (or even Christmas-tree'd Mediums) around here, A. learned a long long time ago how to control tempo, and B. brings and knows how to use a decently stiff fighter screen. Both of those are fatal/crippling to Sloane fleets that can't raw outplay their opponent. The ISD/QF/Gozanti triad I prefer to fly is particularly susceptible to this.

Just to be sure I understand you correctly: you're saying heavily upgraded mediums and large ships give you trouble as Sloane? If so, could you go into more detail on why you feel that is?

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As per usual, you've come along and found the phrase I spent thirty minutes typing trying to find and you make it sound effortless. (I hate you; teach me please.)

Haha, sorry. Didn't intend to steal your thunder ;).

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Sloane fleets CANNOT, I repeat CANNOT, deal effectively with a fleet that disrupts their tempo, and that's easier than it sounds. Sloane fleets want to be moving, with squadrons killing or burning tokens, moving from victim to victim. If a Sloane fleet isn't doing damage, it's helpless, and that's one of the big things relieving a Sloane fleet of first player (when you have a fleet that can use it) can do to your opponent. Sloane is great at turning the tables and using the spin to send your hand of cards flying out of your actual hands. She has a decently difficult time keeping the table in that new orientation, and often appears to do it simply because she will win the battle (whether the game is over yet or not) before a lot of fleets can turn the table back around. That's what GH can do, just grip the table with a steel claw and say, "No, I like it right here," and watch Sloane tear a muscle trying. It's what a MC30 swarm with first player or an Ackbar gunline insufficiently weakened can do when they obliterate key ships with hails of dice and leave you stranded in space if you didn't see it coming.

Hopefully these metaphors make sense.

That's been my experience too. If you can do anything to disrupt the basic combination of carriers+squadrons+combat ship(s) = problems for you, the Sloane fleet is in for some trouble and because it's so points-strapped just getting its basic trick to work, it often doesn't have the resources to seriously address opponents trying to disrupt or play around the trick intelligently, provided they have tools to do so. Whether that means contesting the squadrons directly (you'll need something like Gallant Haven with Jamming Fields, or Ten Nunb behind Escorts, or some extremely well-used flak+Imperial fighters with Mauler or whatnot), destroying the carriers, singling out the combat ship(s) and destroying it(/them), or simply outmaneuvering and avoiding the combat ship(s), you've got options. Without the squadrons there to soften up targets, the Sloane combat ship is generally unsupported and worse off than if you were using a more directly beneficial commander (like Motti or Jerry or Ozzel or whatnot). Without a combat ship nearby, Sloane's squadrons are worse bombers doing less damage but hoping their token spending tricks somehow turn into better damage eventually. Without carriers, the squadrons aren't really going anywhere and the remaining combat ship(s) may not be able to transition over to command them in time (ISD) or may be bad at commanding them at all (small-based Imperial combat ships). The trick is identifying exactly how (and where) to disrupt that combination with your fleet compared to the specific build of Sloane fleet you're up against.

Edit: Or to put it a different way, if you knocked any 100ish points you wanted to out of many of the tournament-caliber fleets I've seen, they'd mostly still work, although they'd be a bit sad, of course. You can certainly delete Demolisher from my Ozzel fleet and it would definitely be bad news for me, but the remaining fleet would still function to an extent and it wouldn't be a foregone conclusion that I was hosed. If you can delete 100 points of your choice from a Sloane fleet (choose one: carriers, squadrons, combat ship), the whole thing tends to fall apart. Just identify what elements are easiest for you to remove and focus on doing so while minimizing your exposure to Sloane and you've got the beginnings of a plan.

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Sounds like a compliment to me.

It was intended as one in a roundabout way, but we all feel charitably towards ourselves most of the time I imagine ;).

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PS Someone remind me over Christmas if I haven't gotten around to it yet to sit down and write out this active/reactive initiative thing rattling around in my head.

Let us know on the forum when you do, I'd be interested in reading it. At some point @geek19 and I need to get some links up to other blogs from Cannot Get Your Ship Out.

@Snipafist (phone makes quotes painful) Larges don't necessarily give me trouble as Sloane. What gives me grief as Sloane is finding people who still play Larges around here all move with appropriate caution. I've always had a bit of trouble dealing with hyper-agile Liberties (that's a personal thing, not a Sloane thing). When I do encounter a Large, what tends to happen is that those folks are sufficiently experienced and/or confident enough a lot of Sloane's shock and awe value doesn't exist. (Lack of panic at a charging ISD doesn't make me happy either.) My big issue is that often a Large that does appear is fitted out such that it can make an extended struggle prohibitive. Madine Liberties or JJ ISDs will dodge, Motti ISDs are more durable than mine, and Ackbar 80s are just happy to have only a couple targets to shoot at, including two notoriously flimsy targets. I guess what I'm saying is a well-constructed fleet built around a Large, while nominally vulnerable to my Defenders, often have the tools required to make Sloane's blitzkrieg difficult at best, at which point you switch to a game of wits with someone brave/good enough to be running a Large before Wave 7 makes them cool again.

TL;DR Sloane doesn't auto-solve the raw power output of a Large, just helps you limit its useful lifespan. It's up to you to get it short enough it can't win on its own terms.

I agree with GP's Sloan versus large assessment. If someone doesn't know how to fly a large, then Sloan can just rip it to pieces, but that's really also true of almost every other fleet style. And as someone who runs a Madine Liberty with light squads from well before Sloan, I've not felt that fighting Sloan was much different from fighting anything else that was squadron heavy. In the Sloan match-up, the opponent has usually doubled-down on anti-squadron to such an extent that I should just accept losing my squadron screen, but as noted above by Snipafist, some combination of activation count, first player, and a robust ship that can drop Sloan activations, thereby creating disruption, is usually what does in the Sloan fleet. And if my 50 points of squads can kill anywhere close to 50 points in equivalent squads, then whatever leftover squadron wing has serious problems threatening the remaining ships.

Locally, we've definitely seen plenty of Sloan and Quasar fleets, and I think they do help overall Imperials perform more highly in tournaments than prior to wave-5, but those fleets still struggle at the top end, especially against GH style lists.

When I take my Sloane list it's filled with 134 pts of anti-squad goodness.

Realistically it will completely murder any squadron component you might bring, with extremely limited losses. In many cases it's like giving away free points. And no, not really exaggerating.

Things that have a fighting chance:

On the rebel side:

Y-wing swarm. Backed with a mix of Jamming Field, Intel and Flight Controllers. YT-1300 are the icing on the cake. Too many small attacks for my scatters to handle. Just make sure that Jamming Field don't backfire - you have to leverage it correctly, to reduce MY damage, with you retain most/all of your blue dice.

Gallant Haven, either with the above, or some other mix of squadrons. Pretty much has to die first. That makes me predictable and forces me to close. Bad combination.

Yavaris. Because too many attacks will ruin my day.

6-activations. Because I can't pick YOU apart with late activations. Instead, if I want a good alpha strike, you get to retaliate in full.

EDIT: and oc Toryn Farr. But who isn't running her!?

On the Imperial side:

Another Sloane list.

That doesn't mean taking a light-medium squadron screen is worthless. First of all it can be very useful against many other builds. Secondly you're trading squadrons for time. Even if they die quickly, they still soak attacks - attacks that would otherwise start doing dmg and stripping tokens.

When fighting Sloane you absolutely do not want squadrons start picking your ships apart starting round 1.

...so I guess the closest I come to a hard counter is:

Rebel GH+Yavaris w/6 activations.

A better/better played Imperial Sloane list.

What about ignoring Sloane and the squadrons and just charging with a fleet something like...

ISD-K, BT, Avenger, LS
ISD-K, LS
ISD-II, GT, LS, Motti

399/400

Can this type of fleet crush a Sloane list that has spent 130+ points on anti squadron and maybe a little more on boosted comms, flight controllers, Flight commanders etc? Does Sloane with 8-10 squadrons have the firepower to drop a 14 hull ISD in time to survive and then drop another one to actually win the game?

My Sloane fleet has

ISDII, GT, Avenger, LS, RBD
Quasar1, Flight Controllers, Boosted Comms, Stronghold.
Gozanti, Suppressor
Gozanti
Howlrunner, Zertek, Sabre, 3 Tie-I, 5 Tie-F
400/400

So I don't go the full 134 but flight controllers helps a little and stronghold is a good way of not being Awing/Shara alpha struck. The nastiest game I had was against Vader on ISD BT-Avenger, Demolisher, 2 Slaved Turret Arquitens and no fighters (large initiative bid). I got a win but only slightly as only 1 Gozanti was left at the end and most of my squadrons survived. I killed all but a Kitten. I would hate to have faced Motti and/or a second large ship and I think my fighter build has more anti-ship punch than lots of more expensive scatter aces.

So now I'm first player, and have you BADLY out deployed.

I then rip apart 1 ISD of my choice, avoiding any real damage in return.

Finally, how does your list fare vs other fleets? No point in making a counter that's just bad vs other stuff.

Gr75 Medium transport

Toryn Farr

Bright Hope

Gr75 Combat Refit

Gr75 Combat Refit

17 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Gr75 Medium transport

Toryn Farr

Bright Hope

Gr75 Combat Refit

Gr75 Combat Refit

Squadrons to taste.

44 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

Squadrons to taste.

Why? Sloane squads are the strongest around in a squad fight. Why fight with them?

10 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Why? Sloane squads are the strongest around in a squad fight. Why fight with them?

Because what good is flak when you can't pin down the squadrons and do sufficient damage to actually kill them?

3 hours ago, Mad Cat said:

ISD-K, BT, Avenger, LS
ISD-K, LS
ISD-II, GT, LS, Motti

Depends on the Sloane list, but I see this going poorly for you. The squadrons are going to be all up in your business, probably from round 1 or at least by R2, and you don't really have a way to dissuade them. Aces will scatter your flak; Defenders will just eat it. You're unlikely to be able to overlap flak with three large bases, two of them with black/black AA. Two rounds of squadrons will leave you hurting enough for Sloane's combat ship (Avenger, Demo, or VSD) to finish off the ISD. So I'd expect to lose two of them while Sloane dances around the third.

That does look like a fun list though. Love triple ISD...

35 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Depends on the Sloane list, but I see this going poorly for you. The squadrons are going to be all up in your business, probably from round 1 or at least by R2, and you don't really have a way to dissuade them. Aces will scatter your flak; Defenders will just eat it. You're unlikely to be able to overlap flak with three large bases, two of them with black/black AA. Two rounds of squadrons will leave you hurting enough for Sloane's combat ship (Avenger, Demo, or VSD) to finish off the ISD. So I'd expect to lose two of them while Sloane dances around the third.

That does look like a fun list though. Love triple ISD...

I entirely agree about flak v scatter aces and when designing this list I wasn't even planning on shooting a squadron with anything unless there were no other targets in arc. I was just thinking of the threat of 3x14 hull speed 3 death darts coming straight at Sloan's Quasars, VSDs or ISD and getting the bulk her fighters to be uncontrolled (the odd Gozanti can't throw enough at you to be a threat unless you are a complete walking wreck).

2 hours ago, Green Knight said:

Because what good is flak when you can't pin down the squadrons and do sufficient damage to actually kill them?

Deterrant is just as good imo.

1 minute ago, Mad Cat said:

I entirely agree about flak v scatter aces and when designing this list I wasn't even planning on shooting a squadron with anything unless there were no other targets in arc. I was just thinking of the threat of 3x14 hull speed 3 death darts coming straight at Sloan's Quasars, VSDs or ISD and getting the bulk her fighters to be uncontrolled (the odd Gozanti can't throw enough at you to be a threat unless you are a complete walking wreck).

I agree that's the way to handle it if you find yourself in this situation. The commentary on the flak was mostly to point out why the squadrons would have no compunctions about jumping straight in to start shooting on round 1--just kind of grew to encompass a lot of the post.

I don't think the ISDs can win that DPS race. You're going to be eating an awful lot of squadron shots on your way in, such that by the time combat is joined, you're likely to be losing an ISD outright. Pretty good chance that two of them will be coming into combat with the front shields stripped and the brace token gone. Assuming Sloane brought a decent follow-up combat ship or two (in my opinion, that's a critical component of a Sloane list), you're going to lose ISDs fast--probably faster than you can get the two Kuats into position to do anything for you.

One of the problems you're going to run into is how utterly out-deployed you'll be. With my own Avenger-II/QF/Gz Sloane list for example, I'm going to drop Avenger off a flank after you're deployed and eat your ISDs one at a time from left to right without having to weather concentrated return fire.

I think fast, hard-hitting ship-based fire could be a solution to Sloane, mind you. I'm just not sure triple-ISD is the best form for that to take.