So while I'm a big fan of Armada, it's tough to get a game in around here, sadly. I've managed to get a practice match or two scheduled for tomorrow in preparation for the Milwaukee Store Championship this weekend, though. Unfortunately, actually making Armada lists is tricky for me. I don't have enough experience to narrow down what I want easily, and many things that do look appealing to me (The Doom Pickle, for instance) end up not fitting in the 400 points bracket. Still, I managed to build a list this evening before X-wing... and then promptly went and modified it when I got home and put it into Armada Warlords. And then I went and made another list. Neither of which is really finished. It doesn't help that I'm flying blind as to what the metagame is going to look like, which means I really don't know what sort of bid I'd need if I'm serious about going first (and I think list B really does want to go first). So I'd like to enlist the forum's help in picking one of these lists and perhaps working out any glaring flaws I've missed before I can fine tune the list after I've gotten a game or two in.

Store Championship Prototype A
Author: Squark

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 382/400

Commander: General Dodonna

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Salvage Run

[ flagship ] CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- General Dodonna ( 20 points)
- Jainas Light ( 2 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 73 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 51 total ship cost

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 points)
- Salvation ( 7 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
= 63 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- Dodonnas Pride ( 6 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 50 total ship cost

Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 points)
- Garel's Honor ( 4 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 43 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 20 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 20 total ship cost

2 VCX-100 Freighters ( 30 points)
2 YT-2400s ( 32 points)

So, this list isn't 100% finished. I'm not sure the comms nets are that important when only a single ship has a command value greater than one, it could probably use more fighters, and Precision Strike could be used as the Assault Objective (But could doom me if someone brings a traditional bomber group). I originally had a Shields to Maximum! Assault Pelta with Hondo and External racks instead of the Dodonna's Pride, but after getting home, I decided that while that would be great with a group of Task Force Organa Hammerheads spreading damage between themselves, I'm not sure that this fleet can force the enemy to split their fire sufficiently.

And, here's list B;

Store Championship Prototype B
Author: Squark

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 395/400

Commander: General Madine

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

[ flagship ] MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)
- General Madine ( 30 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 139 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Jainas Light ( 2 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 53 total ship cost

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
- Admonition ( 8 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 78 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Leia Organa ( 3 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 23 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
= 18 total ship cost

2 A-Wing Squadrons ( 22 points)
2 YT-2400s ( 32 points)
2 VCX-100 Freighters ( 30 points)

This list feels closer to being finished, although I'm not sure I'm bidding enough (and what to cut if I do need a bigger bid), and losing gunnery teams to make room for the second flotilla will likely hurt the Flagship's role as a battle cruiser vs. MSU lists. Avenger+Boarding Troopers is also a big threat here.

Thanks for the help!

List A: 7 Activations, but almost all in Corvettes, and light squadrons. I think you'll find that against any good squadron list, you're going to lose Corvettes pretty fast and may lose your squadrons fairly fast as well. For the bid, it looks like you'd be wanting to go first. I just don't think you've got a unit that really wants a powerful first activation set-up for it. Maybe the Corvette-B. You'd probably be better off putting an MC30 with OE and APT in this list. I'll let others dig into a bit more, since you admit it is less finished than your other list.

List B: This list looks strangely familiar. Oh, I remember.

First, I appreciate you trying to squeeze every last little bit into the list. Compared to where I ended up at Worlds, you have managed to add two squads and keep Jaina's Light in there. So kudos to that. What you give up for having everything is that you don't have guaranteed killing power on the Liberty, and there's less harmony with some of the upgrades that I tend to run in my list.

After reviewing your list and thinking on it a bit, you've got an assortment of different tools and a style that differs from what I usually run.

You do cut an awful lot of upgrades to get everything into that list. The advantage there is that if you lose any one thing, you still preserve your shot at some of the higher scores. That gives you a lot more options for trading than I have, while still preserving a high score.

Not having at least XI7 hurts against the MC30 lists. What you'd need to do is just eat a shot, and then trap them. Admonition can close off a lot of space to opposing MC30s, and then Jaina's likely has to trail as a finisher for anything that exits toward you. If you play on your objectives, you also stand to kill the MW ship, or pick up points from either of the two objectives.

Versus Avenger+BT: Remember you get to place Admo and the Liberty after he's placed the Avenger. That means Avenger should get nowhere near either one of them if you both fly well and you placed well. Much is going to come down to the choice of objective. It requires good play, but I think you're fine here. Just don't try to do too much.

1 hour ago, Squark said:

So while I'm a big fan of Armada, it's tough to get a game in around here, sadly. I've managed to get a practice match or two scheduled for tomorrow in preparation for the Milwaukee Store Championship this weekend, though. Unfortunately, actually making Armada lists is tricky for me. I don't have enough experience to narrow down what I want easily, and many things that do look appealing to me (The Doom Pickle, for instance) end up not fitting in the 400 points bracket. Still, I managed to build a list this evening before X-wing... and then promptly went and modified it when I got home and put it into Armada Warlords. And then I went and made another list. Neither of which is really finished. It doesn't help that I'm flying blind as to what the metagame is going to look like, which means I really don't know what sort of bid I'd need if I'm serious about going first (and I think list B really does want to go first). So I'd like to enlist the forum's help in picking one of these lists and perhaps working out any glaring flaws I've missed before I can fine tune the list after I've gotten a game or two in.

Store Championship Prototype A
Author: Squark

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 382/400

Commander: General Dodonna

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Salvage Run

[ flagship ] CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- General Dodonna ( 20 points)
- Jainas Light ( 2 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 73 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 51 total ship cost

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 points)
- Salvation ( 7 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
= 63 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- Dodonnas Pride ( 6 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 50 total ship cost

Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 points)
- Garel's Honor ( 4 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 43 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 20 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 20 total ship cost

2 VCX-100 Freighters ( 30 points)
2 YT-2400s ( 32 points)

So, this list isn't 100% finished. I'm not sure the comms nets are that important when only a single ship has a command value greater than one, it could probably use more fighters, and Precision Strike could be used as the Assault Objective (But could doom me if someone brings a traditional bomber group). I originally had a Shields to Maximum! Assault Pelta with Hondo and External racks instead of the Dodonna's Pride, but after getting home, I decided that while that would be great with a group of Task Force Organa Hammerheads spreading damage between themselves, I'm not sure that this fleet can force the enemy to split their fire sufficiently.

And, here's list B;

Store Championship Prototype B
Author: Squark

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 395/400

Commander: General Madine

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

[ flagship ] MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)
- General Madine ( 30 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 139 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Jainas Light ( 2 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 53 total ship cost

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
- Admonition ( 8 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 78 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Leia Organa ( 3 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 23 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
= 18 total ship cost

2 A-Wing Squadrons ( 22 points)
2 YT-2400s ( 32 points)
2 VCX-100 Freighters ( 30 points)

This list feels closer to being finished, although I'm not sure I'm bidding enough (and what to cut if I do need a bigger bid), and losing gunnery teams to make room for the second flotilla will likely hurt the Flagship's role as a battle cruiser vs. MSU lists. Avenger+Boarding Troopers is also a big threat here.

Thanks for the help!

For list A, I would swap out Dodonna for Cracken. You're going to have a hard time penetrating the shields of a dreadnought, so you're better off trying to avoid as much incoming fire as possible. Cracken makes those lists positively agonizing to deal with, because it's really hard to bring enough firepower to bear. If you're going to go with that one, I'd do one of two things: drop the second GR-75, drop Comms Net off the first one, ditch the VCXs and grab more 2400s, and just go ham. HA is probably fine as a yellow still, and I'd switch to Intel Sweep as the blue just to avoid being pinned down and obliterated; ditch both Comms Nets, turn the 2400s into more VCXs, and swap out objectives to Fire Lanes and Sensor Net, and abuse the daylights out of them.

For list B, your squadrons have a bad case of trying to do two things at once. Either do A-wings or 2400s, not both. A-wings is probably wiser, since you can have more and you need a squadron screen stiff enough to deal with Sloane. I'm strongly of the opinion, having been on the receiving end of @Aresius's version of this same list, that if you want the Liberty to be a deadly killer, XI7s and/or Gunnery Teams need to be involved. You're going to need to trim the screen to do that, potentially including the VCXs. In my experience Liberty lists race in, blow something up, and run like hell. Rarely do they stick around long enough to win an objective like Fire Lanes. Keeping them for Relay isn't unwise, local meta contingent, but I really believe if you firm up the fighters, you'll find the upgrades for the Liberty to make it work like a charm and you'll be set.

21 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

For list B, your squadrons have a bad case of trying to do two things at once. Either do A-wings or 2400s, not both. A-wings is probably wiser, since you can have more and you need a squadron screen stiff enough to deal with Sloane.I'm strongly of the opinion, having been on the receiving end of @Aresius's version of this same list, that if you want the Liberty to be a deadly killer, XI7s and/or Gunnery Teams need to be involved. You're going to need to trim the screen to do that, potentially including the VCXs. In my experience Liberty lists race in, blow something up, and run like hell. Rarely do they stick around long enough to win an objective like Fire Lanes. Keeping them for Relay isn't unwise, local meta contingent, but I really believe if you firm up the fighters, you'll find the upgrades for the Liberty to make it work like a charm and you'll be set.

To put some more thoughts on GP's post above, here's my latest iteration of Madine:

Madine's Exotic Dancers
Author: Vergilius

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 391/400

Commander: General Madine

Assault Objective: Blockade Run
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 20 total ship cost

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
- Admonition ( 8 points)
- Lando Calrissian ( 4 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 90 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Bright Hope ( 2 points)
- Toryn Farr ( 7 points)
= 27 total ship cost

[ flagship ] MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points)
- General Madine ( 30 points)
- Endeavor ( 4 points)
- Major Derlin ( 7 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Quad Turbolaser Cannons ( 10 points)
- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 181 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Leia Organa ( 3 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 23 total ship cost

3 A-Wing Squadrons ( 33 points)
1 Shara Bey ( 17 points)

Notice that it does pretty much everything @GiledPallaeon described there.

I'm not sure I want to take the time to recount every lesson over playing some version of this list (see the regional reports above) for nearly 10 months, but it is about as efficient as I can make it now. Feel free to ask questions and use whatever elements you like.

A few thoughts on various elements:

1. Squadrons: I used to have Tycho in there, but in the post-Quasar meta, he's just a glorified A-wing anymore, and one that they attack first rather than Shara. Shara is always worth her points though, even if they pick up a lot of accuracies.

2. Leia/Comms Net Transport: This is one of my own recent ideas, and I was pleasantly surprised to see it in your own list. The Liberty needs some kind of Slicer Tool protection. I used SFO for a while, but I think I like a Leia Transport better.

3. Battlecruiser: Everything is fine-tuned here. I'm fairly satisfied with where things stand, even if it is 181 points. It is 181 points that is very very very very hard to kill.

4. Bright Hope/Toryn: The most important thing she does is boost your A-wing main attacks and counters. You get a bit of subtlety with Landmonition beyond that

5. Landmonition: Lando drastically improves the scary places you can go and still live.

6. Objectives: The ones listed obviate the need for strategic while giving you good second player options against lists that outbid you or carrier lists that you want to make go first. Alternatively, Most Wanted is solid almost everywhere, and you could try Salvage run if you were so inclined and wanted to live bravely versus strategic.

I don't know... only 4 squadrons is not very good against a massive squadrons list, and when you lost you 4 awing the liberty is in really danger.

You don't have problem against a six ship activaction?

2 hours ago, Aresius said:

I don't know... only 4 squadrons is not very good against a massive squadrons list, and when you lost you 4 awing the liberty is in really danger.

You don't have problem against a six ship activaction?

I assume you're talking to me rather than the OP?

The evolution of the list is detailed elsewhere, but the summary is that we've had a top 4 in the world GH player in our local meta and one of the goals of the list was to come up with a minimum functional fighter screen, so as to deny points to that list. The simple fact is that you're not trading very well in the squadron game with that list. Against anything else, a little bit more would be better. Beyond that, you have to fly very carefully with the Liberty. The Liberty may be in danger, but this list plays according to a lot of the same principles that the light/no squadron MC30 lists use. With good use of FLAK, I've killed 100+ units of squadrons in a game.

Against six activation lists: These are always tough match-ups. The biggest problem is that there's virtually no room for a mistake on the Liberty, because that's game in their favor.

2 hours ago, Aresius said:

You don't have problem against a six ship activaction?

Just now, Vergilius said:

Against six activation lists: These are always tough match-ups. The biggest problem is that there's virtually no room for a mistake on the Liberty, because that's game in their favor.

Having played against H9/QTC Liberties with my 4 MC30/3GR75 list (with variations of the same concepts on both sides), I can say one of the big strengths of the Liberty is the ability to force damage onto flotillas at long range, presenting an existential threat to a HUGE swath of the board and severely limiting the flotillas' freedom of navigation. If you can leverage that into a quick kill or two, you can go a long way toward evening up that activation disparity. It's not easy, but if you can pull it off it has a huge impact.

3 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

Having played against H9/QTC Liberties with my 4 MC30/3GR75 list (with variations of the same concepts on both sides), I can say one of the big strengths of the Liberty is the ability to force damage onto flotillas at long range, presenting an existential threat to a HUGE swath of the board and severely limiting the flotillas' freedom of navigation. If you can leverage that into a quick kill or two, you can go a long way toward evening up that activation disparity. It's not easy, but if you can pull it off it has a huge impact.

Yes, but when the other player play the flottilla on the edge of the table is not easy. Btw i prefer squadrons instead of the mc30, i think they give more flexibility to the list, and 2 vcx can help a lot on missions.

Yes, I think there's an open question whether some kind of hybridization is possible between the way Aresius plays and the way I do. I've always understood the two of us to have had different lists. Just the different commanders is enough to make both lists play differently. And in the end, there's enough proof on the table, where it really counts and we step away from the theoretical posturing, to show that both lists are very good and viable.

I do think if you are going to put more squadrons on the table, then you really need to look at Toryn Farr, and you should explore how to mix and match them to handle the different situations you might see in the squadron game.

10 hours ago, Vergilius said:

I do think if you are going to put more squadrons on the table, then you really need to look at Toryn Farr, and you should explore how to mix and match them to handle the different situations you might see in the squadron game.

After the european i decided to no go with a high bid list and try to enanche squadrons with some upgrade like toryn far, and take mission who help me at second player. Now i'm try to find some good mix of squadrons but i'm really undecided. Xwing with bigs and jan ors are very durable, but they are too slow to catch corvette or fast ship. yt2400 are very expensive, awing are good but with they fall down quickly. I'm very indecisive.

So, after playtesting @Vergellius's list two nights ago... I concluded that I just wasn't ready for a Liberty list. But, my opponent's list gave me an idea, and so between that and an article from Cannot Get Your Ship Out, I think I have the skeleton of a third list

Squark's Store Championship List, take III
Author: Squark

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 318/400

Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

[ flagship ] MC80 Command Cruiser (106 points)
- Admiral Ackbar ( 38 points)
- Defiance ( 5 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 172 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Jainas Light ( 2 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 53 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Leia Organa ( 3 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 23 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
= 18 total ship cost

2 A-Wing Squadrons ( 22 points)
2 VCX-100 Freighters ( 30 points)

Obviously, there's a ship missing here. But that's where I've sort of reached a stumbling point- I want some sort of consistent damage, which makes a bare-bones Assault Frigate or MC30 kind of hard, but a TRCr90 doesn't feel beefy enough. I'd also kind of like to fit Slicer tools onto the naked gozanti as a countermeasure against Sloane Quasars, but that does put it in the line of fire instead of being able to hide and delay. Any suggestions?

EDIT: Hmmm... Perhaps an MC30 Torpedo Frigate with Enhanced Armament, Ordnance Experts, and Reinforced Blast Doors? Or I could cut ordnance experts and upgrade Reinforced Blast Doors to the Admonition title, which leaves a point for a skilled first officer. Another possibility that lets me fit in the Admonition title and ordnance expert would be a Scout frigate, but that leaves me with fickle red dice.

Yes, Liberty's are tough to fly well. I had plenty of MC30 MSU practice before I got to a Madine Liberty, which helped me work on the principles for flying it well.

As for your Ackbar list: Why a command instead of the Assault? You're probably going to be pushing squadrons from the flotillas, for which you could add an EHB and take a token to activate all four of your current squads. Taking the Assault gets you more long-range dice and a second defensive retrofit. Officers on your MC80: Few people leave one off. It somewhat depends upon your meta. A lot of people play Walex to get a discarded defense token back. Raymus helps power up commands. Damage Control Officer is there if you fear MC30/Demolisher crits. Intel Officer helps remove braces on offense.

At 82 points, I can see your concern for wanting more ships. An MC30 is really hard to fit in there, so at this point, you'd probably be better with a second Corvette, then use the remaining points for upgrades and increasing your squadron game. For example, it might make it more meaningful to have a command cruiser if you're planning on activating 4 A-wings from it. Get Toryn on something to really help out your squadron game, because you'll have Toryn boosting VCX anti-squadron and anti-ship attacks, A-wing attack and counter attacks, any flak shots you take from your ships. For example, a CR90 might want to double arc flak rather than take any anti-ship shot and all of that flak is meaningful.

Leia might be better on your Jaina's light, then put Bright Hope and Toryn on the Comms netter. That could get you a CF or Nav as you need it on your MC80.

I find Quantum Storm is a great upgrade with Slicer Tools, you can even end up last/first the top commands of two different ships.

And yes, by the time I got through all of those upgrades, we're probably through more than the points you have left. So you'll have to be selective. Generally I look to be as efficient as possible in my upgrade selection. For example, you might start with a TRC90 = 51 points, Toryn = 7 points, and 2 A-wings = 22 points. That's 80 total of your remaining 82. You could then put Bright Hope on the Toryn Flotilla for 2 more points, while moving Leia to Jaina's Light. That should give you a pretty decent starting fleet. I'm not saying it couldn't be tweaked for other goodness, but its a start. Play with it, see where it is weak and where it is strong, and then tweak slightly from there.