36 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I saw part of both of those games, and it did look to a passing observer like he didn't get a lot out of Norra. I didn't see enough to guess at a reason for this.

He dive-bombed Norra into death. In one game he boosted Norra, putting her in a terrible position, to get a combined 1 shield off of Jess. I don't remember what happened in the other game, but it was similar.

Basically, he didn't understand the list he was flying against. (And I don't blame him. Like the Mindlink lists were at first, it's a stealth "you're screwed," not a Dengar/Nym in-your-face "you're screwed.")

He also wasn't flying Ballet Norra.

I'm 90% certain I would wreck another Fair and Balanced player (of my skill level) if I were flying Dash and Ballet Norra.

1 hour ago, wurms said:

Yeah, but in I think the top 4 game, he lost Norra quick and Dash nearly solo'd the list, came down to Rex and Biggs in last round and they were able to get two shields off dash for half points and the win.

Dash is a solid choice not just for this list, but the meta in general since double positioning aces aren't popular right now

45 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I saw part of both of those games, and it did look to a passing observer like he didn't get a lot out of Norra. I didn't see enough to guess at a reason for this.

Yeah, he only got a few shots with Norra, flew her through the rocks then got nuked. Dash did great work afterwards, it seems like he kinda goofed at the end and gave up half points on Dash. I think after he'd killed Jess, he could have just gotten away. Instead he went to take out Rex and it didn't go as planned.

1 hour ago, AlexiLux said:

Maybe I've missed something but... can't you just block them? The list usually flies in a pretty tight formation, right? Put a large ship in front of them, say a Bumpmaster, and without actions they doesn't get Low's extra evade and will probably shoot pretty poorly. Ping some shields of Biggs and finish him off the turn after.

Somehow people are acting like if you don''t kill him in the first turn, it's game over.

Just play for the long game.

You can bump them, but their damage passing shenanigans won't be impacted. That's its strength, not what damage it can do, but the damage it can mitigate.

25 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Yeah, he only got a few shots with Norra, flew her through the rocks then got nuked. Dash did great work afterwards, it seems like he kinda goofed at the end and gave up half points on Dash. I think after he'd killed Jess, he could have just gotten away. Instead he went to take out Rex and it didn't go as planned.

You can bump them, but their damage passing shenanigans won't be impacted. That's its strength, not what damage it can do, but the damage it can mitigate.

All that mitigation requires range 1. Small base Blockers and tractor beams should work to interrupt those shenanigans if used right. Same as the claim of outflying them, the group is only as good as low's dial else it gives away a lot of the mechanics that make it work.

Biggs and Rex presents an immediate problem - Rex can't fly at speed 1 - Biggs wants to stay with the group for his ability, as does lowhrick. So our first approach should be to outflank the squad. Also try to drag them across rocks. A lot of this game is in the setup and the attack line.

Now - the real issue is that we have damage dispersed, but that's ok - because aside from r4d6, damage is being dealt to other ships - that's going to help us if we can keep our guns alive long enough. Once biggs dies, the squad starts to fall apart quickly. While the squad has some offense (particularly Jess Pava - Lowhrick and Biggs aren't getting modified shots, rex's 2 dice are almost inconsequential, but if you are flying a 2/3 ship list - rex's surpressive fire can do enough to cause a headache - it's essentially a +1 evade action. Still, Ram them, especially Jess Pava, use bumps to force the opponent to spread damage as well.

Some tools may help - being able to use ordnance can hurt Rex pretty early, they can selflessness damage off - but removing an early gun will help. Bombs or anti Range 1 tools (Assault missiles / Ruthlessness etc) will eat away at the other ships even faster. I'm going to assume that we're not building against it though.

Practice!

Ketsu with 2 TLTs. But it loses to the other parts of the meta.

After playing with it a few games (very successfully) tonight, I feel a well flown Whisper can do some damage to this list (but can she do enough in time?). The list has a few tricks up its sleeve when it comes to flying (talon roll, 3K or 1turn BR and Low's 180°) , but for the most part it's very predictable. You do not want to engage this list head on, wait until selflessness is gone. Running into a blocker can be very annoying, especially a big base, as it needs actions to prevent and push damage.

I don't think Tractor beams are an answer(not Defenders at least), Biggs can be easily positioned to prevent a barrel roll/boost and even at a reduced agility, he just lives with his wingmen and Droid.

A genius Nym with bomblet (and Cad somewhere) could really mess with the formation if you don't control ranges and let him fly right by you and drop a bomb, that's a potential 2 damage to the entire list! Load him with Synced Turret and he avoids Biggs and can take out Rex easily, then shift focus to the selflessness ship.

I really, really like the way the meta is potentially shifting. This list will be popular, but it isn't invincible.

Things the list won't like:

• Ahsoka - Sabine's Masterpiece, Sabine Wren, Captured TIE, [Bomb of your choice]; low PS and a need to maintain formation makes for a sad junkyard.
• Anything with mines - Advanced SLAM Warden Squadron Pilots move first, and can dump rows of cluster mines in the path of the squad. None of the damage passing shenanigans work against damage that's not from attacks.
• Blockers - yes, R4-D6, Selflessness, and Draw Their Fire still work without actions. But Lowhhrick's ability doesn't. If you really want to be a git, block with a Binyare Pirate with Deadman's Switch!
• Anything which deals direct damage. A swarm of 7 Z-95s with feedback arrays can fly into a colliding mess and tazer jess to death without letting her roll, much less reroll, a single green dice, and she's probably the biggest offensive stick the list has. Oicunn ramming with Antipursuit Lasers and Mara Jade can really mess with the formation.
• Anything which forces the list to break formation. Mines and blockers do this a bit, as does forcing the list to do hard manoeuvres. Trying to keep a TIE fighter (no speed 1 straight/bank) and a Wookie Gunship (no K-turn) in formation around a pair of X-wings isn't as easy as it sounds if the squad has to pull hard manoeuvres through obstacle fields. You can take a more active roll, though, with tractor weapons. A TIE/d with a tractor beam can 'yank' biggs out of Jess and Lowhhrick's defensive range, then ventilate him.
• Splash damage. I'm not specifically advocating massed assault missiles, but it wouldn't half make a mess. Ruthlessness, on the other hand, is cheap and not all that big a deal (you could slot it onto the above Tractor Beam TIE/d and put a lot of damage into the formation).

9 hours ago, Biophysical said:

In my headsim, I really like the Pattiswarm (Howl, 3 Academies, 3 Black/Crack). It can block up the formation denying all kinds of actions, and so many attacks basically don't care about the the astromech, the wookie's ability or Selflessness. Maybe they won't 1-round Biggs, but they don't have to.

I have also considered the Patiswarm. Like you said, blocking to prevent tokens is an effective method of wearing down Biggs much more quickly.

The main thing holding me back, is that I forsee the rise of Dash/Miranda as a meta staple - and flying a swarm vs that list physically hurts.

I've recently flown against this list; you know what Biggs isn't a fan of?

Synced Turret; Watching his wing mates go down to 3 synced turret shots.

The "Attack (Target Lock)" like with missles bypasses his ability (unless am wrong)

10 minutes ago, the1hodgy said:

I've recently flown against this list; you know what Biggs isn't a fan of?

Synced Turret; Watching his wing mates go down to 3 synced turret shots.

The "Attack (Target Lock)" like with missles bypasses his ability (unless am wrong)

You're not wrong, but 3 synched turret shots isn't enough to kill any of the wingmates in Rebel Junkyard except Rex, and only then if you're lucky. Lowhhrick will have Reinforce, Jess will have 1.8+ evades per shot, and Rex will have 3 dice with a token and Jess and Low to pull damage off him.

13 hours ago, Ailowynn said:

Biggs, R4-D6, Integrated Astromech

Jess, R2-D6, Draw Their Fire, Integrated Astromech

Lowhriick, Selflessness, your choice of crew

Rex, no upgrades.

I find this list easier to beat than than this one, which is a nightmere:

Braylen Stramm:
R3-A2
Ezra Bridger
Title

Lowhhrick
Draw Their Fire
Wookie Commandos

Biggs
R4-D6
Integrated

Captain Rex

The stress threat helps with action dependent aces.

Either way, a Quickdraw, Tomax Bren and Inquisitor list does wonders against both.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

You're not wrong, but 3 synched turret shots isn't enough to kill any of the wingmates in Rebel Junkyard except Rex, and only then if you're lucky. Lowhhrick will have Reinforce, Jess will have 1.8+ evades per shot, and Rex will have 3 dice with a token and Jess and Low to pull damage off him.

Worked for me; I killed Rex first with two shots I used the one of them to blocked him, opponent spent Lowricks re-enforce in first shots. Then I did damage to Lowrick.

Repeated this next turn; fired on Biggs once; Lowrick spent his token. Shot remaining two at Lowrick.

Once the lock was on all I did was focus for evading.

Had Jonas as the 4th ship to allow reroll out of arc; and other passive bonus granting crews; Officer etc

5 minutes ago, the1hodgy said:

Worked for me; I killed Rex first with two shots I used the one of them to blocked him, opponent spent Lowricks re-enforce in first shots. Then I did damage to Lowrick.

There's something to that, too. When you've got a mix of locked and non-locked weapons, sticking the former to Lowhhrick may leave him unwilling to spend his reinforce token if he's going to get pasted without it.

4 hours ago, Bonza said:

I have also considered the Patiswarm. Like you said, blocking to prevent tokens is an effective method of wearing down Biggs much more quickly.

The main thing holding me back, is that I forsee the rise of Dash/Miranda as a meta staple - and flying a swarm vs that list physically hurts.

Exactly this. People keep suggesting a tie swarm, and yes I agree it can beat this list. The problem is the rest of the current meta will tear you up. Dash, Miranda or Dengar's torps will beat you.

I've won 2 SC's with my own version of Thane, Biggs, Jess, and Rex and the only ships I truly fear are Dash and Miranda, especially when paired together. Range control is how you beat the jankyard. Keep biggs at R4 and hit the other ships. It'll take forever, but its possible.

Also, I've seen suggested a few times that you should try to drag them through a dense asteroid field to break up the formation. This is correct, however a competent player should never allow you to do that. This formation survives on its patience of the player. 1 forward around the board edge till your opponent finally comes to you. Which is also why I don't get the ion suggestion, the list wants to go one forward anyways. Often staying in formation and working the synergy is more important than lining up shots for a turn. Its a pure formation list.

1 hour ago, NervousSam said:

Also, I've seen suggested a few times that you should try to drag them through a dense asteroid field to break up the formation. This is correct, however a competent player should never allow you to do that. This formation survives on its patience of the player. 1 forward around the board edge till your opponent finally comes to you.

Well, 2-forward, but yeah.

You're right with Rex, which makes Ions even worse, he wants to go slower, lol.

30 minutes ago, NervousSam said:

You're right with Rex, which makes Ions even worse, he wants to go slower, lol.

But it's not like he will willingly tear his formation apart just because he bets on being ionized with the right ship...

If he sets 2forward and you ionize the front ship then those in the back (Lowhhrick/Biggs) will bump. If he sets 1forward and 2 with Rex then Rex breaks formation unless you ionize him. Good luck predicting that during planning phase!

I'm a moron - of course ionized or not is known when setting dials.

2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

But it's not like he will willingly tear his formation apart just because he bets on being ionized with the right ship...

If he sets 2forward and you ionize the front ship then those in the back (Lowhhrick/Biggs) will bump. If he sets 1forward and 2 with Rex then Rex breaks formation unless you ionize him. Good luck predicting that during planning phase!

But how are you ionizing in the planning/activation phase?

1 minute ago, NervousSam said:

But how are you ionizing in the planning/activation phase?

Ah, of course, you already know whether he's ionized when setting dials.

That's what I get for being snarky - of course he always knows whether the front ship (Jess or Rex) is ionized, so he can set dials accordingly.

So ionizing won't work unless it's combined with stress then?

Sure, you could Ion bomb/torp the formation, then somehow also termal det the formation or ion them onto a debris field. Seems like an iffy set up that won't reliably work, nor work on other list archetypes.

I was playing a version of the old junkyard on vassal and faced a new list that I think would do nicely against the new junkyard:

Scum Nym & Sol Sixxa both with TLT. Sol had minefield mapper and cluster mines. A nice wall was created using existing asteroids and a few well-placed cluster mine sets. The Scurrgs wanted to stay on their side of the wall, plinking with TLT and getting free evade results from the mines due to Nym's pilot ability. This list has many of the elements folks have suggested here might do well against this list: TLT, range control, and formation disruption through area denial. Plus, Nym can dance across the wall as needed without exploding the cluster mines. If the rebels find a way across the wall, just switch sides. The rebel formation is bound to break up, and chances are the scum TLT shots will take out something before time expires.

Yeah, this would be a good matchup. Similar to Miranda/Nym.

Requires some careful flying to set up the range of the engagement, but then, TANSTAAFL. Hit the Selflessness ship and you'll likely remove it and Captain Rex on the opening round of shooting.

================
Jankyard Cleanup
================

100 points

Captain Rex (14)

Tala Squadron Pilot (14)
Z-95 Headhunter (13), XX-23 S-thread Tracers (1), Guidance Chips (0)

Tala Squadron Pilot (18) x 3
Z-95 Headhunter (13), Assault Missiles (5), Guidance Chips (0)

Lieutenant Blount (18)
Z-95 Headhunter (17), XX-23 S-thread Tracers (1), Adaptability (0), Guidance Chips (0)

17 minutes ago, Hawkstrike said:

Requires some careful flying to set up the range of the engagement, but then, TANSTAAFL. Hit the Selflessness ship and you'll likely remove it and Captain Rex on the opening round of shooting.

================
Jankyard Cleanup
================

100 points

Captain Rex (14)

Tala Squadron Pilot (14)
Z-95 Headhunter (13), XX-23 S-thread Tracers (1), Guidance Chips (0)

Tala Squadron Pilot (18) x 3
Z-95 Headhunter (13), Assault Missiles (5), Guidance Chips (0)

Lieutenant Blount (18)
Z-95 Headhunter (17), XX-23 S-thread Tracers (1), Adaptability (0), Guidance Chips (0)

I like that people are looking at AM, but I don't know that 12 dice are enough to remove a ship from this list (though you will probably remove Rex with the extra damage). If you it's Low, you need 11 hits (but more likely 12 and possibly 13) with no crits mixed in. If it's Jess, you do have a chance but it's still requires 8 hits to get through her re-rollable defense dice. It will definitely have hit them hard, though, leaving even Biggs crippled.

I've been using this double havoc build to good effect vs some four ships rebels.