This isn't a "OMG, I lost to this list, help me beat it!" thread. It's a "Huh, it seems to show up a lot and win a lot, wonder how to prepare for it" thread. I've played variants of it, myself. I get the damage distribution and synergy involved. I'm thinking TLT and/or bombs will combat it fairly well? Ion would probably cause it some problems, too?

Check out my Junkyard Wreckers thread.

Bombs, especially a bomblet, can really mess with this list if you can get them off. Alpha strikes can as well, but it's hard to pick the primary target. (I would possibly pick the ship with selflessness just so it can't be used, but that is often Jess with her rerolls). Rex is the juicy choice with his low health, but the other list shenanigans and his 3 dice with evade, plus Low's extra, make it hard to kill. This is the beauty of the list. This list might be what brings back arc dodgers, it will take time to eat it away, but if you can stay out of 3 out of 4 arcs you probably won't die.

Yep, that all makes sense. Bombs, tractor Beams and Ion would hose up that formation.

Super Dash does good. List cant turn fast enough to keep him in arc plus maintain actions.

Also, try a rebel TIE fighter like ahsoka with captured Tie. They cant touch her and she blocks them, can bomb them, EMP, etc.

12 minutes ago, wurms said:

Super Dash does good. List cant turn fast enough to keep him in arc plus maintain actions.

Also, try a rebel TIE foghter like ahsoka with captured Tie. Theu cant touch her and she blocks them, can bomb them, EMP, etc.

I don't know about Dash. Granted, he'd have list-mates, but that would take at least 4 rounds of 4-hit HLC fire from him to take down Biggs. The Ahsoka idea is pretty fun! I can't never make he work in a competitive environment, though.

I guess I did sort of post this as a "Help me beat this!' thread. I have a few favorite lists and I'm trying to decide amongst them for a store kit tourney this weekend. I feel I can react to most other threats (as well as can be expected), I just don't want to lose to this. Miranda is in most of the lists, though, so I guess I already have a counter.

Like everything else, bombs and TLTs.

What about Snapshot? Pick them off as they maneuver.

Bombs aren't much of an answer, honestly. If you're in range to be bomb-dropping, you're in range to be shot. And, because it's a formation flying list, you can be in range to drop bombs on the front ships, but not actually be able to do it, because of the back ships. The list has a lot of HP, and my own variation (using Wookiee Liberators instead of Jess) has even more HP. It's hard to kill with bombs, unless you get really lucky on rolls. (At the SC on Sunday, Miranda dropped all six of her bombs ... and died without killing my list.)

TLTs and arc-dodgers. Dash and Ballet Norra (or non-bombing Miranda) will eat it alive.

7 minutes ago, Superstrength79 said:

What about Snapshot? Pick them off as they maneuver.

Which is best used on AWings, which have a natural 2 attack dice, against a squad with maximum damage spreading, that can destroy your damage dealing via Rex and Reinforce token....nope

43 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

Check out my Junkyard Wreckers thread.

Link?

Here are my thoughts:

The list has five mechanics for protecting Biggs: Lowhriick's pilot ability, Selflessness, Draw Their Fire, Rex, and R4-D6. All of these are very strong against a low volume of high-output attacks; that is, anything that throws a lot of dice at once, like Fenn Rau, Alpha Strike lists, even Imperial Aces like Whisper, Quickdraw, Backdraft, and so on -- in short, pretty much everything that's in the meta right now.

The last time the meta was based on an archetype like that was the Fat Han meta, and the answer to that build is the same as the answer to the Biggs build: TLT and Autothrusters (or rather, arc-dodgers). However, it's also worth noting that Selflessness and Rex in particular are pretty weak against a large number of ships/attacks. The options, it seems, are:

1. TLT, as others have mentioned; it makes everything but Rex useless. Unfortunately, TLT spam is almost an auto-lose to anything with Fenn Rau in it, which means you need to include an answer to Authothrusters in your TLT lists.
2. Old-fashioned arc-dodgers will also help, but it's by no means an easy game. You still have to kill Biggs eventually, and that's pretty hard to do with only three attacks per round. In addition, the sorts of aces that are able to dodge four arcs are also the squishier ones, who are more susceptible to bombs; so you're left wondering whether you want to be weak to bombs or Biggs.
3. Bombs? Meh. You're not going to get six bombs on Biggs, and most lists that have a lot of bombs won't be putting through too much damage with attack dice.
4. Swarms, though . . . why aren't swarms a thing right now? If you manage to get six TIE fighters into Range 1 of Biggs and Co., he's going to die. You'll never touch Lowhriick . . . IF he has his Reinforce. But you've got a whole swarm; you'd best be able to block one lumbering gunship. Snapshot is also a viable option since it goes off before your opponent has actions, which also lets you chew through the Wookiee real quick. What's keeping these guys out of the meta? Is it Fenn? Is one ace enough? Is it Nym? Can we somehow NOT chew through his one agility die?

Bombs, TLTs, even moar ordnance (ordnance can work ... if target selection is done properly. Kill the Selflessness ship first).

TLT negates R4-D6, Selflessness, Draw Their Fire and Rex's ability for the most part (2x2 is still strong versus 2 Agility Biggs).

My guess is Assault missiles and Ruthlessness will win the day.

4 minutes ago, ViscerothSWG said:

My guess is Assault missiles and Ruthlessness will win the day.

... Maybe. But then it loses to Dash/wingmate, RAC/wingmate, Han or Rey/wingmate, Dengar/Nym, and so on. Assault Missiles and Ruthlessness are both really expensive.

BTW, some versions of the list can actually evade a 4-hit Assault Missile. (Mine can't.)

18 minutes ago, Ailowynn said:

Link?

15 minutes ago, Ailowynn said:

Here are my thoughts:

The list has five mechanics for protecting Biggs: Lowhriick's pilot ability, Selflessness, Draw Their Fire, Rex, and R4-D6. All of these are very strong against a low volume of high-output attacks; that is, anything that throws a lot of dice at once, like Fenn Rau, Alpha Strike lists, even Imperial Aces like Whisper, Quickdraw, Backdraft, and so on -- in short, pretty much everything that's in the meta right now.

The last time the meta was based on an archetype like that was the Fat Han meta, and the answer to that build is the same as the answer to the Biggs build: TLT and Autothrusters (or rather, arc-dodgers). However, it's also worth noting that Selflessness and Rex in particular are pretty weak against a large number of ships/attacks. The options, it seems, are:

1. TLT, as others have mentioned; it makes everything but Rex useless. Unfortunately, TLT spam is almost an auto-lose to anything with Fenn Rau in it, which means you need to include an answer to Authothrusters in your TLT lists.
2. Old-fashioned arc-dodgers will also help, but it's by no means an easy game. You still have to kill Biggs eventually, and that's pretty hard to do with only three attacks per round. In addition, the sorts of aces that are able to dodge four arcs are also the squishier ones, who are more susceptible to bombs; so you're left wondering whether you want to be weak to bombs or Biggs.
3. Bombs? Meh. You're not going to get six bombs on Biggs, and most lists that have a lot of bombs won't be putting through too much damage with attack dice.
4. Swarms, though . . . why aren't swarms a thing right now? If you manage to get six TIE fighters into Range 1 of Biggs and Co., he's going to die. You'll never touch Lowhriick . . . IF he has his Reinforce. But you've got a whole swarm; you'd best be able to block one lumbering gunship. Snapshot is also a viable option since it goes off before your opponent has actions, which also lets you chew through the Wookiee real quick. What's keeping these guys out of the meta? Is it Fenn? Is one ace enough? Is it Nym? Can we somehow NOT chew through his one agility die?

33 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Bombs aren't much of an answer, honestly. If you're in range to be bomb-dropping, you're in range to be shot. And, because it's a formation flying list, you can be in range to drop bombs on the front ships, but not actually be able to do it, because of the back ships. The list has a lot of HP, and my own variation (using Wookiee Liberators instead of Jess) has even more HP. It's hard to kill with bombs, unless you get really lucky on rolls. (At the SC on Sunday, Miranda dropped all six of her bombs ... and died without killing my list.)

TLTs and arc-dodgers. Dash and Ballet Norra (or non-bombing Miranda) will eat it alive.

I look at the bombs as more of a disruption to the formation than to necessarily deal damage (which is always good). I wouldn't go on bombing runs against this list, flying into the face of it is a bad idea. I'd be running and dropping.

I suppose that's fair, but how are you really disrupting that formation? I mean . . . ion bombs will make Rex bump, I guess. You do punish them for flying in formation, but you're still spreading damage around, which is exactly what that list wants.

You may say bombs aren't the answer, which is partially correct. They can't be the MAIN answer, they're a complementing answer. By that I mean, they should be a tool that's already part of a whole tool box of answers. Bombs alone won't do enough damage, but bombs + TLT or other munitions will help win the game against it. Bombs become more effective new Fairship Rebels because they're all in a tight formation and if/when you have the ability to drop bomb(s) on them, it's going to likely hurt most of the formation instead of just one ship in most other squads. I've put up very good fights against variants of Fairship Rebels with my Miranda/Nym list that I've just really started playing, but have had not only moderate success against Fairship Rebels, but very good success against many other squadrons.

44 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Dash and Ballet Norra (or non-bombing Miranda) will eat it alive.

Pretty sure a Dash Norra list lost twice (once pretty handily) to it at the store champ which radiotcx streamed. It sounds great in theory, but it is definetly not an"eat it alive" scenario by any means.

What is the list in question?

Just now, Kdubb said:

Pretty sure a Dash Norra list lost twice (once pretty handily) to it at the store champ which radiotcx streamed. It sounds great in theory, but it is definetly not an"eat it alive" scenario by any means.

Yeah, watching that game right now. It's especially difficult with Tactician on Lowhriick; as soon as you get a stress on either ship, you're going down pretty quick; and Norra just doesn't have the arc-dodging capability you need to get away from four ships at once. I guess if you bait them with Dash, it could work well . . .

50 minutes ago, RStan said:

Which is best used on AWings, which have a natural 2 attack dice, against a squad with maximum damage spreading, that can destroy your damage dealing via Rex and Reinforce token....nope

You shoot before they have a chance to take actions (no reinforce, evade, or focus), and when the first ship moves out of that Range 1 band, they can't use the spreading abilities.

4 minutes ago, Mackaywarrior said:

What is the list in question?

Biggs, R4-D6, Integrated Astromech

Jess, R2-D6, Draw Their Fire, Integrated Astromech

Lowhriick, Selflessness, your choice of crew

Rex, no upgrades.