So to start off this isn't a complaint thread. I love getting new ships and new abilities and love to try them out. There are some losts that dont intrest me in playing at all- triple jumps for example. However i will use 'meta-ships' when i want. I ran nymgar at the weekend and it was great fun.

But recently there has been something not as enjoyable. Maybe i feel like people are becoming too win at all costs and making games more negative experiences.

So i thought lets go back to basics, fly some fun on screen ships which made me fall in love with the game (with one new addition )

The list:

2 x rookie pilots with r2 and integrated

1 x gold squadron with r2 and ion cannon turrst

1 x blue squad pathfinder with advanced sensors, rey, rec spec and tac jammer.

Sure its not the most efficient use of points but its good old fun.

Ive played 5 games against decent players and won all 5.

This includes against:

assaj fenn and jump

Rebel jank

Trip jumps

Howl crack swarm

Nymranda

Sure there was dice luck and some good flying. Also helps that people just dont expect this kind of basic list anymore.

So my point is not that this is going to win any competitions, chances are it will not. But just to say if you feel frustrated at times with the new optimised crazy efficient lists these days, you can always go back to basics and have some good old fashioned pew pew.

Bringing back the magic

Wrong game, dude.

You can always organize a gimmick tournament or league or whatever, always 10x as fun as regular.

9 minutes ago, ab10acl said:

So to start off this isn't a complaint thread. I love getting new ships and new abilities and love to try them out. There are some losts that dont intrest me in playing at all- triple jumps for example. However i will use 'meta-ships' when i want. I ran nymgar at the weekend and it was great fun.

But recently there has been something not as enjoyable. Maybe i feel like people are becoming too win at all costs and making games more negative experiences.

So i thought lets go back to basics, fly some fun on screen ships which made me fall in love with the game (with one new addition )

The list:

2 x rookie pilots with r2 and integrated

1 x gold squadron with r2 and ion cannon turrst

1 x blue squad pathfinder with advanced sensors, rey, rec spec and tac jammer.

Sure its not the most efficient use of points but its good old fun.

Ive played 5 games against decent players and won all 5.

This includes against:

assaj fenn and jump

Rebel jank

Trip jumps

Howl crack swarm

Nymranda

Sure there was dice luck and some good flying. Also helps that people just dont expect this kind of basic list anymore.

So my point is not that this is going to win any competitions, chances are it will not. But just to say if you feel frustrated at times with the new optimised crazy efficient lists these days, you can always go back to basics and have some good old fashioned pew pew.

I think you touch on a good point here. Maybe the counter to all of this fancy, delicate bull is straight jousting and beef.

Maybe quad B-Wing or 8 ship swarms have a place. Dengar can't have an arc on 8 ships if you make a wide net of TIE Fighters and surround him..

shrug It's worth a try. 4 PS 1 Scurggs each with Intelligence Agent did win a Store Championship recently.

I like the way you think.

Efficency is always the answer against low agility ships meta (Scurrg, K-Wing, Deci). But still think it gets countered by ultra mobility from Miranda or Jump...

1 hour ago, Chibi-Nya said:

Efficency is always the answer against low agility ships meta (Scurrg, K-Wing, Deci). But still think it gets countered by ultra mobility from Miranda or Jump...

Maybe the answer is quad Jumpmaster or 2 Jumpmasters and 2 Scurggs.

Inaldra with Light Syck, Fenn with title & Autothrusters, and 2 Contracted Scouts? All can have Mindlink and you'll have 2 points to spare, which could be 2 Intel Agents. Miranda can't pull her BS if she's blocked the whole game.

Maybe we need to take a second look at Lothal Rebels with FCS.

Or 2x Resistance Sympathizer and a TLT Y-Wing/Zeb shuttle.

IDK, I think that there are some unexplored options here.

There are definitely plenty of "newer" players out there now that never had to learn to beat 4 Ship Rebel or TIE Swarms. And even those players that HAVE been through that phase probably haven't done it with their current roster of ships and lists.

Just saying, TIE Swarms have always been awesome vs TL based Ordnance lists. How do you decide TL's when you arent sure how many missiles will be required to kill a 3 AGI ship that might roll natural 3 Evades + Evade token? Then of course, trying to avoid blocks on the following rounds...

Here is one of my current 'fun' list that will not win any tournaments, but the A-Wing and formation flying is just so much fun. Also, I think the 'luck' factor adds excitement. (Aka dice rolls.)

Jess Pava (31) - T-70 X-Wing
R2-F2 (3), Primed Thrusters (1), Autothrusters (2)

Green Squadron Pilot (23) - A-Wing
Juke (2), Chardaan Refit (-2), A-Wing Test Pilot (0), Autothrusters (2), Snap Shot (2)

Green Squadron Pilot (23) - A-Wing
Juke (2), Chardaan Refit (-2), A-Wing Test Pilot (0), Autothrusters (2), Snap Shot (2)

Green Squadron Pilot (23) - A-Wing
Juke (2), Chardaan Refit (-2), A-Wing Test Pilot (0), Autothrusters (2), Snap Shot (2)

Some people forget, throughout the history of the game, 3 ship rebel builds were fairly fragile, losing a ship tends to hurt badly. That issue is compounded with 2 ship builds. There was a time, around wave 4 (pre 5) where two ship builds were possible, but they were not viable.

4 ships became a standard baseline for what was safe - almost any mix of 4 was alright. Large ships began to count as 2x small - so HSF (Han shot first, han + 2 rookies) counted as 4 ships back then. Even in wave 2, it was a common mantra to say "expect to lose a small ship on the first turn of combat" - while offense has ramped up since then, this is still pretty true. The offense increase has changed the length of the average (full, untimed) game from about 12 turns to about 10 turns. (based on local xp, assumed that it holds on a larger base, but I don't have hard data on average game length.)

I think a lot of players that joined after those early days, missed some of this common x-wing knowledge, especially as joining in wave 5-6 saw a 2 ship meta be fairly norm. Since then - there have been workable 2 ship builds, with multi ship builds shining less as the action economy for aces began to surpass the generics. (The true power creep in the game is action economy shift!)

Also - those who have studied math wing probably have heard of lanchesters laws, or the salvo combat model (which is a bit better) - but we note that squad strength actually improves in a nonlinear fashion with additional bodies on the field. I've got three tournament wins with 4 rebel ship builds - even in the wolfpack meta! (I generally play 1 tournament a month, and i rotate factions...) I won July's tournament with 3t65s and a t70 (nobiggs!).

In tournament play, The problem generally is MoV - you're likely to lose a ship or two, sometimes you win hanging on with 1. So - should you lose a match, you probably wont make the cut. But 4 ship rebels with lots of attack can take on just about anything. Especially lists with fewer ships - and right now, many of the most maneuverable aces are depressed from the meta. The biggest two to deal with are fenn and miranda - if you can develop a plan to attack those ships - you can go quite far!

8 hours ago, Ravncat said:

Also - those who have studied math wing probably have heard of lanchesters laws, or the salvo combat model (which is a bit better) - but we note that squad strength actually improves in a nonlinear fashion with additional bodies on the field. I've got three tournament wins with 4 rebel ship builds - even in the wolfpack meta! (I generally play 1 tournament a month, and i rotate factions...) I won July's tournament with 3t65s and a t70 (nobiggs!).

Quote

I think you touch on a good point here. Maybe the counter to all of this fancy, delicate bull is straight jousting and beef.

Maybe quad B-Wing or 8 ship swarms have a place. Dengar can't have an arc on 8 ships if you make a wide net of TIE Fighters and surround him..

shrug It's worth a try. 4 PS 1 Scurggs each with Intelligence Agent did win a Store Championship recently.

I like the way you think.

Very much so. I've been using a squad of 5 strikers for a while, and whilst it has its flaws, the firepower is terrifying if you get it all lined up on one target; yes, you have no 'gimmicks' at first glance, but ' you've used all your tokens and once-per-round abilities and I've still got another focused 3-dice shot at you to go' is a hell of a good trick.

FTS Gecko's infamous Five. Cartel. Marauders. is much the same (and about to get a shot of steroids in the arm with the Vaksai title).

Basic TIE fighters are great fun to fly, but it's very easy to end up in an unworkable matchup; with things like Concord Dawn Protector, Lone Wolf, (scum) Boba Fett's ability, and so on, there are ships out there which can shrug off 2-dice attacks in whatever quantity you care to throw them. If you've got a 'gimmick' like crack shot, juke, or focus/target lock, it's workable around, but those things tend to cut into your numbers and/or leave a vulnerable lynchpin ship (like howlrunner) floating around somewhere.

3-dice attack, 5-ship 'heavy swarms' are something that have been popping up every so often, and there are quite a few decently effective ones. As noted, at least part of it is people not knowing how to handle them, but they can and do work.

3-dice attack, 4-tough-ship 'superheavy swarms' also have a bit of pedigree; Panic Attack or FCS B-wings, Baby Blues T-70s and (now) 4 Scurrg Pirates can make for a lot of defence to chew through, such that a lot of squads can easily damage them, but may struggle to kill one in the opening spread.

15 hours ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

Wrong game, dude.

I feel the magic everytime I play. All tho, thanks to my buddies who play with so diverse squads always. I have literally played with only one person in my life casual games that I got so bored after few games, he didn't ever play something new/fun, always same things from meta, Palp Aces, Miranda etc.

Now back to my OG group I have been blessed with good group.

1 hour ago, Zazaa said:

I feel the magic everytime I play. All tho, thanks to my buddies who play with so diverse squads always. I have literally played with only one person in my life casual games that I got so bored after few games, he didn't ever play something new/fun, always same things from meta, Palp Aces, Miranda etc.

Now back to my OG group I have been blessed with good group.

Right but Magic is a different game, my dude.

2 hours ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

Right but Magic is a different game, my dude.

Dude made me feel stupid when I failed to see that..

I have won my third game (undefeated with it), with my wookie ships, last night.

Chewbacca 1.0 > Veteran Instincts > Wookie Commandos > Millennium Falcon (title) > Engine Upgrade

Alkadavlkadm Gunship x2 > Wookie Commandos

Very low action economy... like none. I keep winning. Either I am a good pilot, or the list is so beefy that I can kill ships with a lot of 3 dice attacks before they can take me out.

I made the list as a joke (Look! All wookies!), and to test out what a naked gunship can do (strategy I am using for myself to learn all about a ship before taking aces or upgrades), but now I think I'll try more vanilla squadrons in the future.

Come to Armada, where the OT ships of all sizes are all actually pretty darn good

You can even run the original trench trio incredibly well (personally not a fan of armada Luke, though)