9 minutes ago, Johen Dood said:

Just wait until Guns for Hire. No point in even having other factions, Scum will be able to do it all! Aces, Arc-Dodging, Bombs, Triple Large ships, Stress Lists, Regen, Alpha Strike- all at S and A Tier level. One faction to rule them all.

wait, where's the stress coming from? Don't recall anything special apart from single stress asajj which is more an evade for Latz anyway

otherwise, every faction can do everything listed apart from triple large ships and regen (poor imps)

3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

wait, where's the stress coming from? Don't recall anything special apart from single stress asajj which is more an evade for Latz anyway

otherwise, every faction can do everything listed apart from triple large ships and regen (poor imps)

Not at S and A tier level. Imperial Bombs get a D at best. Imperial Stress, maybe a B or C.

As for stress see Thermal Detonator on Nym + Assaj.

On 25/7/2017 at 6:43 AM, jmswood said:

I'm a casual Ace-winger. I deliberately limit my participation in tournaments. I used to be a 3-faction player. Splitting my time about 50-30-20 between Rebels, Empire and Scum respectively. A few months ago I quit Scum; sold all the Scum ships I could, traded others, and the remnants reside in my box of shame. I didn't do it out of anger. I lost interest in the ship types and pilot abilities.

I gradually developed some of the common complaints about Scum, but I was never bitter. I enjoyed the challenge of facing popular Scum builds with my home-brew Reb and Imp Aces lists. The anger started when Fantasy Flight announced Guns for Hire. The Vaksai and StarViper Mk2 titles in particular sparked my ire. For the first time I took the time to really compare Scum in detail to the other factions. The more I looked, the less I liked. I analyzed every release since Wave 6 and fumed over the developers' pro-Scum conspiracy.

I completely lost my cool after a close friend proxied some Guns for Hire content. The game loss didn't upset me. I made some squad building and gameplay mistakes. He played a smart, fair game and beat me. The rage came when he told me how many points he spent on Talonbane. I ranted about it to him, my other friends and the internet for a couple weeks. I swore I would never play another game with Scum at the table until FFG fixes everything I saw wrong with the game.

Wave 11 dropped. I cooled off in the excitement of new ships. I even considered swallowing my pride and lifting my Scum ban so my friend could run his Scum Nym against me.

Rage returned again today with the StarViper Mk2 preview. I beat the anti-Scum wardrum for hours in person and online. I threatened to flip a table if I ever saw Thweek on the opposing side. I started drafting my dissertation about the pro-Scum conspiracy. It was nearly complete when the copy-paste malfunctioned on my phone. Every word (and there were many) vanished into digital thin air. I nearly started composing it again from scratch when I realized I was allowing my emotions to run unchecked over an entertainment product. X-wing is something I do for fun with my friends. I was ruining fun and friendship by choosing to be personally offended by the developers' choices.

There is still a pro-Scum conspiracy. I'm just choosing to not rage against the Scumist Establishment. I will allow Scum to play on my kitchen table, and I might even play the faction again someday.

Nice. You completely forgot Imperial Veterans, because is PRECISELY the Scum for Hire for the Imperial side: cheap titles (with minus cost) that bringed in auge some dead ships.

Seriously guys, stop useless complains. You can complaing against torpboat, against jumpmasters and even Attanni. But no, no one can complain Guns for Hire. Those 2 ships NEEDS some boost.

I assume we are going to see some really nasty tech slot combos coming out of the last jedi. I have to wonder if we are even going to see a scum ship come out of the movie?

On 7/25/2017 at 10:25 AM, Johen Dood said:

I honestly don't understand why FFG just focuses on one faction, over and over and over again.

As I've been saying everytime I see one of these kinds of posts after guns for hire I expect scum to get nothing for a while maybe an epic ship that's on par with the raider and CR-90 but that's it. Why? Because of The Last Jedi. There may be some scum ship released that ties into the movie but I doubt it, I am expecting to see Strong First Order and Resistance ships released in the next wave the tie into The Last Jedi. I fully expect to see a Jumpmaster Nerf when the next extensive FAQ drops as well. Scum is getting shiny things now because there's not going to be much to give them until the Han Solo movie probably. Now I know everything doesn't have to tie into the upcoming movies to warrant release but I can't think of any other reason why FFG has stacked so much scummy goodness leading up to when we will start knowing more and more about The Last Jedi. They have an idea of what they're going to release for the first order and resistance in relation to The Last Jedi and they must have thought scum needed more goods now to keep up with what's going to happen next.

Or I pull out my tin foil hat an believe that everyone at FFG loves scum and **** be to profits let's drive away all the players and income because scum.......

You certainly have a lot of optimism for FFG's skill in design and planning these releases (from Wave 8 up to date) with the upcoming movie releases, man, if that were true huh? But if they actually could do that, they knew the Super-ship Jumpmaster design would be fine, because they knew the amazing Rouge One ships were going balance them out when released...oh wait, they didn't in the least, at all, not a freaking hit of balance. Your theory crashes and burns in the light of the game's history.

You sir must have on the tinfoil hat. Design is not balanced, nor are the erratas, at all.........

34 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

You certainly have a lot of optimism for FFG's skill in design and planning these releases (from Wave 8 up to date) with the upcoming movie releases, man, if that were true huh? But if they actually could do that, they knew the Super-ship Jumpmaster design would be fine, because they knew the amazing Rouge One ships were going balance them out when released...oh wait, they didn't in the least, at all, not a freaking hit of balance. Your theory crashes and burns in the light of the game's history.

You sir must have on the tinfoil hat. Design is not balanced, nor are the erratas, at all.........

Jumpmaster was a knee jerk overcompensation for scum from FFG

No idea why we never got more Rouge One ships partisan X wing, blue squadron X wings etc. U wing blows but I very much enjoy the TIE striker.

I guess I could stew in everyone's negativity but I would like to be optimistic and believe that over the next few waves and FAQs the game will be more in balance.

History in no way predicts the future.

1 hour ago, codegnave said:

I assume we are going to see some really nasty tech slot combos coming out of the last jedi. I have to wonder if we are even going to see a scum ship come out of the movie?

The Last Jedi; Return of the Quadjumper

5 hours ago, Thormind said:

You dont understand the data you are seeing.

Here is how it works: http://meta-wing.com/about

Juggler meta annalyser does not show you # of win, it bases the rankings on win % and gives more importance to bigger events. The fact that they show up more doesnt matter in the ranking if they do not have good and reliable results. A ship with poor representation but good results (especially at major events) will be ranked higher than a ship with good presence but lower win ratio (or poorer performance at major events).

Euu yes? Brobots were in 2nd place of the meta. Did you look at the links i provided?

The Imperials cant manage a top 4 with 11 wave of materials. The scums managed that only a few months after release with only 2 waves of products. Sorry but no matter how you look at it thats not poor results at all. Contradictarily to what some scum players are pretending, their problem was never performance but only lack of diversity. Which was totally normal and was meant to improve with time.

Only if you use the outliers does Scum get into 2nd place. Scum also had two list where Imperials only had 1. So the lack of diversity falls through there.

As for me of course I put the top tournaments to have more weight than simple store championships. Store have their own take on the meta. My store doesn't have that many attani-mindlink fenarau lists around, probably because there is a silent boycott or something. So for the meta I do use the premier events as a filter to get rid of said outliers.

You can argue all you want about how the numbers show your way but anyone that has taken statistics can tell you never believe the whole set, and always see what were considered outliers. Heck given that data I could some how make Imperials 1st place.

3 hours ago, Phoenix5454 said:

History in no way predicts the future.

No, but those who don't learn from history are destined to repeat it.

19 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

No, but those who don't learn from history are destined to repeat it.

All this has happened before, and will happen again.

12 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

The Last Jedi; Return of the Quadjumper

oh i hope so, its so adorably dumb looking! i want one

On 25/07/2017 at 0:43 PM, jmswood said:

I'm a casual Ace-winger. I deliberately limit my participation in tournaments. I used to be a 3-faction player. Splitting my time about 50-30-20 between Rebels, Empire and Scum respectively. A few months ago I quit Scum; sold all the Scum ships I could, traded others, and the remnants reside in my box of shame. I didn't do it out of anger. I lost interest in the ship types and pilot abilities.

I gradually developed some of the common complaints about Scum, but I was never bitter. I enjoyed the challenge of facing popular Scum builds with my home-brew Reb and Imp Aces lists. The anger started when Fantasy Flight announced Guns for Hire. The Vaksai and StarViper Mk2 titles in particular sparked my ire. For the first time I took the time to really compare Scum in detail to the other factions. The more I looked, the less I liked. I analyzed every release since Wave 6 and fumed over the developers' pro-Scum conspiracy.

I completely lost my cool after a close friend proxied some Guns for Hire content. The game loss didn't upset me. I made some squad building and gameplay mistakes. He played a smart, fair game and beat me. The rage came when he told me how many points he spent on Talonbane. I ranted about it to him, my other friends and the internet for a couple weeks. I swore I would never play another game with Scum at the table until FFG fixes everything I saw wrong with the game.

Wave 11 dropped. I cooled off in the excitement of new ships. I even considered swallowing my pride and lifting my Scum ban so my friend could run his Scum Nym against me.

Rage returned again today with the StarViper Mk2 preview. I beat the anti-Scum wardrum for hours in person and online. I threatened to flip a table if I ever saw Thweek on the opposing side. I started drafting my dissertation about the pro-Scum conspiracy. It was nearly complete when the copy-paste malfunctioned on my phone. Every word (and there were many) vanished into digital thin air. I nearly started composing it again from scratch when I realized I was allowing my emotions to run unchecked over an entertainment product. X-wing is something I do for fun with my friends. I was ruining fun and friendship by choosing to be personally offended by the developers' choices.

There is still a pro-Scum conspiracy. I'm just choosing to not rage against the Scumist Establishment. I will allow Scum to play on my kitchen table, and I might even play the faction again someday.

Testify, brother. be the Voice of the voiceless. Everyone else need to Wake up and start to Kick out the Jams with a Fistful of Steel. everytime I read this forums its like there will be a War within a Breath. it seems that every time i walk into the store to play there will be scum lining up like Bulls on Parade, we need to be ready to Take the Power Back.

15 hours ago, Cerve said:

Nice. You completely forgot Imperial Veterans, because is PRECISELY the Scum for Hire for the Imperial side: cheap titles (with minus cost) that bringed in auge some dead ships.

Seriously guys, stop useless complains. You can complaing against torpboat, against jumpmasters and even Attanni. But no, no one can complain Guns for Hire. Those 2 ships NEEDS some boost.

You mean the Imperial Veterans which was a fix that got nerfed pretty soon after the release? I´d also like to remind that x7 title had also a negative side to it (predictability, losing cannons and missile slots), unlike Vaksai. The bomber veterans did not bring any help to those overcosted ships.

So these are hardly useless complaints. There are loads of ships that NEED some boost. Tie Punisher being the best example.

4 minutes ago, Pretty Green said:

...There are loads of ships that NEED some boost. Tie Punisher being the best example.

The TIE Punisher already has Boost.

3 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

The TIE Punisher already has Boost.

That´s very funny.

See the difference between "boost" and "some boost"?

6 minutes ago, Pretty Green said:

See the difference between "boost" and "some boost"?

Yes, I did. But I've long since learned not to take your posts with any kind of seriousness. If I did, I would have pointed out that Punishers have very recently been boosted by the arrival of upgrades like Lightweight Frame, Unguided Rockets, Cruise Missiles, Bomblet Generator and Minefield Mapper, and that a clever player would find a way to make use of these new options. But I know that would be pointless, so I went for the joke instead. You did after all gift it on a silver platter.

3 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Yes, I did. But I've long since learned not to take your posts with any kind of seriousness. If I did, I would have pointed out that Punishers have very recently been boosted by the arrival of upgrades like Lightweight Frame, Unguided Rockets, Cruise Missiles, Bomblet Generator and Minefield Mapper, and that a clever player would find a way to make use of these new options. But I know that would be pointless, so I went for the joke instead. You did after all gift it on a silver platter.

So you are implying that the Punisher is now ok and doesn´t need anything? It seems you are the joker here.

Any of those upgrades will not make Punisher viable ship and you know it too. It is overcosted for what it is.

1 hour ago, Pretty Green said:

You mean the Imperial Veterans which was a fix that got nerfed pretty soon after the release? I´d also like to remind that x7 title had also a negative side to it (predictability, losing cannons and missile slots), unlike Vaksai. The bomber veterans did not bring any help to those overcosted ships.

So these are hardly useless complaints. There are loads of ships that NEED some boost. Tie Punisher being the best example.

Yes, I mean precisely that. And that nerf was useful.

And when the Punisher will be fixed, no one will complain. Precisely as no one need to complain Guns for Hire.

4 hours ago, Pretty Green said:

The bomber veterans did not bring any help to those.

The TIE shuttle is a great little ship. Didn't exactly help the bomber bomb anything, but it made the ship useful.

20 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

...the amazing Rouge One ships...

19 hours ago, Phoenix5454 said:

...more Rouge One ships...

37 minutes ago, Verlaine said:

**** auto correct :ROGUE dammit!

"Rouge one!? There is no Rouge One!"

20 hours ago, Ubul said:

You claimed that the representation of the certain list is not important in the ranking.

I never said that.

23 hours ago, Thormind said:

What makes Juggler so reliable is the fact they rate builds using different factors than just the total # of win.

Different than just does not mean it's excluded.

23 hours ago, Thormind said:

Juggler meta annalyser does not show you # of win,

Juggler does not show # of win: true, none of the column shows that.

On 2017-07-26 at 10:03 AM, Thormind said:

The fact that they show up more doesnt matter in the ranking if they do not have good and reliable results. A ship with poor representation but good results (especially at major events) will be ranked higher than a ship with good presence but lower win ratio (or poorer performance at major events).

Again, nowhere do i say it's not important....

20 hours ago, Ubul said:

I never said that the faction was bad.

The wole argument was about that. I answered to people saying that scums had a hard time when released and it's now normal for them to get better stuff than the other factions. I'm saying that based on their results since release they have never been in a bad position. They never lacked powerful tools, only build diversity. After Guns for Hire they will be the faction with the lowest % of below average ships, with only the Mist Hunter and Z95. On top of that they are already the faction with the highest % of powerful ships and it just keeps growing up.

20 hours ago, Ubul said:

OK, lets filter out every list with < 1% presence. Only 7 lists remains, with the following ranking:

1. Fat Han
2. KyloRac
3. Corran Dash
4. BBBBZ
5. Phantom/Lambda/Interceptor
6. Whisper+Deci
7. Brobots

So you look at the meta back then and you think Fat Han was dominating? If the answer is no (and it should be) then what are you proving?

And who decides at what % to make the cut? Meta since the last nerf including the widespread use filter: http://meta-wing.com/ship_combos?ranking_start=2017-03-17&ranking_end=2017-07-27&large_tournament_multiplier=true&widespread_use_multiplier=true&use_ranking_data=all&tournament_type=&

Triple jmk and parattani are not making the 1% cut. Does that mean they are not dominating the meta? IMO this slice shows that the base formula (with the widespread filter on) is working. Triple defenders have more representation than many of the builds before them. The most played one, Dashing Miranda, is only in 6th position. Many observations like that can be made.

1 hour ago, Thormind said:

So you look at the meta back then and you think Fat Han was dominating? If the answer is no (and it should be) then what are you proving?

The only thing I am trying to prove (and I am not just trying, i successfully did), that your statement about the Brobots is 2nd top list is not supported by the listjuggler data you are referring to, because the result depends on the weighting of the list occurance. That's all. Read again my first comment in this thread, that summarizes everything I wanted to prove.

1 hour ago, Thormind said:

And who decides at what % to make the cut?

It does not matter what % the cut is. The 1% threshold I used is arbitrary. You complained about the 1-2 presence builds in the ranking, so I made sure to filter them out, so only the popular builds remain. Do you think if a build is #119 out of 120, than the cut matters at all?

1 hour ago, Thormind said:

Again, nowhere do i say it's not important....

OK, you used the term "doesn't matter" instead of "not important". My bad.

1 hour ago, Thormind said:

The wole argument was about that. I answered to people saying that scums had a hard time when released and it's now normal for them to get better stuff than the other factions.

I am not responsible of what other people are saying. If you want to answer to other people, please do not address the post to me next time. I only argued about the methodology you used.

54 minutes ago, Ubul said:

The only thing I am trying to prove (and I am not just trying, i successfully did), that your statement about the Brobots is 2nd top list is not supported by the listjuggler data you are referring to, because the result depends on the weighting of the list occurance. That's all. Read again my first comment in this thread, that summarizes everything I wanted to prove.

Sorry but Fat Han was not the top meta list between wave 6 and 7. No matter how you try to justify a theory, it cant be valid if the end results isnt.

57 minutes ago, Ubul said:

It does not matter what % the cut is. The 1% threshold I used is arbitrary. You complained about the 1-2 presence builds in the ranking, so I made sure to filter them out, so only the popular builds remain. Do you think if a build is #119 out of 120, than the cut matters at all?

The reason why that treshold matters is because it cant be used reliably. During some periods the meta will be concentrated around fewer builds while for some others it will be more spread. For the first the treshold will need to be higher to filter the builds with unreliable results (because not played enough). For the latter it will need to be lower to avoid filtering out results that are meaningful.

1 hour ago, Ubul said:

OK, you used the term "doesn't matter" instead of "not important". My bad.

You normally need to read a sentence completely before concluding to it's meaning: " The fact that they show up more doesnt matter in the ranking if they do not have good and reliable results." Thats totally different than saying it's not important in the ranking. With the if, that sentence means that you need both good results AND higher representation in order to get higher rankings.

1 hour ago, Ubul said:

I am not responsible of what other people are saying. If you want to answer to other people, please do not address the post to me next time. I only argued about the methodology you used.

To me knowing the context of a discussion is kinda important before i decide to participate in it... Might be just me...