15 minutes ago, Viktus106 said:

"Zeta Ace" needs a FAQ clarification as it MAY allow Threek to use the two bank template.

It really doesn't. Must > may. You have two options for what to use instead of the 1 straight template, one is a must, the other is a may. You've got to use the 1 bank.

8 hours ago, Infinite_Maelstrom said:

how does Thweek get nothing from Han HOTR? Wouldn't it be better on him than Han, since you are effectively Denying the opponent half their setup area?

How does he deny them anything? It's also terrible since you'd be a PS4 in the middle of nowhere.

6 hours ago, CRCL said:

But how many of those pilots are:
A) Good.
B) Common in the meta.
Maybe a handful?

That's literally the point of the thread.

5 hours ago, SabineKey said:

I would like to dispute the inclusion of Hera on this list. While he has limited reds, a change between the two sloop directions could make or break a block and he has enough greens for it to be mildly useful.

...and he does all that at PS4, which is pretty useless.

5 hours ago, Ravncat said:

has anyone put together an actual list of useless abilities .. . like all of the Lancer abilities revolve around a mobile arc that Thweek lacks, Kylo Ren shuttle is really only about assigning conditions that he can't do etc...

They're all on the list...

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Inaldra's is great for him. WHen he blanks out on that 5 dice behind a rock at range 3 roll, he can reroll it for a minimal cost.

E: HotR Han is also great to copy. Scum Nym and Rebel Nym also both have their uses as long as you bring your own Nym.

Again, stupidly situational. And why is Hero Han good again?

20 minutes ago, Viktus106 said:

As others have said, whilst you may not be able to mimic Asajj ability, she is normally paired with a Fenn or a Bossk, both of whom have fantastic abilities.

Which is not the point, at all. They're not on the list because they'd make enemy Thweek useful.

Holy crap did you guys completely miss the point of this thread. Let me spell it out for you again:

WHEN THWEEK BECOMES THE META, THESE ARE THE PILOTS YOU START FLYING TO MAKE THWEEK USELESS.

This was meant to be in good fun, but ya'll are dense.

I got and appreciated your intent XD

1 hour ago, Viktus106 said:

Soontir: When stressed, gain a focus token (meh but PS9)

You might be surprised how useful it can be to S-loop at will and still get your focus. It opens up SV's dial immensely, turning him into a much less predictable defender with a far better dial when not turning around too. Not to mention it's gonna be much harder to block both S-loops than the painfully obvious 4 K-turn. I'd take that for 30-ish points.

Other than that, nice analisys. It's worth noting that even if he has no useful skill to copy but can shadow the highest enemy PS while giving away initiative, he's gonna be an extremely nimble arc-dodger with great firepower for a ridiculously low cost. It's technically possible to come up with a list where his ability won't be useful but it's really hard to argue that any of these lists are common and successful enough to bother.

Thweek is likely to range from good to amazing in almost any matchup and perhaps more importantly, he's gonna be different in each matchup, which should make for a varied, interesting and fun experience. The only things that bother me about him is:

1. His very existence will limit the future the design space for the entire game. Every time they come up with an interesting and creative ability for one of the new pilots they're gonna have to consider whether or not it won't break Thweek. We already have one pilot in one of the factions that has that effect and creates all sorts of problems. I'm not sure I'm looking forward to having another one.

2. As amazing as he might be, it might be challenging to find good teammates for him. Almost every scum list these days is either 2 ships or mindlink-based. He's not quite strong enough for the former (and scum don't have a YT-1300 or Decimator equivalent that would be worth 65-70 points) and lacks the EPT for the latter. As a result, he doesn't quite fit any of the existing archetypes. Pre-mindlink scum small fighters were mediocre at best and I'm not sure Thweek is powerful enough to change that. PTL protectorates are okayish, but from my experience they're too predictable and their dial is too restrictive. Fixed Kihraxzs will still need mindlink for the action economy. So do Scyks for that matter. So we may have to wait for new stuff to emerge before Thweek finds his dream team.

1 hour ago, ObiWonka said:

Holy crap did you guys completely miss the point of this thread. Let me spell it out for you again:

WHEN THWEEK BECOMES THE META, THESE ARE THE PILOTS YOU START FLYING TO MAKE THWEEK USELESS.

This was meant to be in good fun, but ya'll are dense.

There's no need to be a jerk, I can't speak for others, but I understood what you meant. As I said earlier:

8 hours ago, CRCL said:

I don't think anyone is going to start taking junk pilots to counter one ship.

I'm interested to see how Thweek would do with Illicit Clocking Device against "Echo".. You could throw there Advanced Sensors and other things to spice it up. But I would like to see how mobile you could make him/her?!?

1 minute ago, Zazaa said:

I'm interested to see how Thweek would do with Illicit Clocking Device against "Echo".. You could throw there Advanced Sensors and other things to spice it up. But I would like to see how mobile you could make him/her?!?

utterly stupidly so. New most manoeuvrable ship in x-wing get.

1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

utterly stupidly so. New most manoeuvrable ship in x-wing get.

Good thing with Thweek is that the chance to make your build exactly right in right moment against "Echo" is next to nothing. But it is darn interesting pilot and will offer increasingly more diversity after every Expansion.

Of course there is those more obvious opponents that you end up copying the ability and it will go hand to hand with meta and that is probably healthy for meta, not convinced that Thweek will shift the meta so much, but it has good effect on it for sure.

3 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

It really doesn't. Must > may. You have two options for what to use instead of the 1 straight template, one is a must, the other is a may. You've got to use the 1 bank.

except - we can choose the order of our simultaneous effect triggers, so once we choose the straight 2 barrel roll replacement - then there is no straight 1 barrel roll to replace! and the effect, fizzles? or is there something new happening that we must choose the replacement effect first? I'm not invested in either outcome - but it seems like another for the FAQ

Must > may. If you have a must and a may, you can't choose the may. You have to choose the must.

Shame Fel's Wrath is unique ... I'll fill my entire squad with him!

4 hours ago, ObiWonka said:

...and he does all that at PS4, which is pretty useless.

Still not as bad as copying backdraft

33 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Must > may. If you have a must and a may, you can't choose the may. You have to choose the must.

That's where the problem lies - rules tell me when I have 2 effects, i chose the order in which they trigger - this has nothing to do with the card text itself. I declare barrel roll - Zeta Ace + Mk II title text become active. I chose to trigger Zeta Ace Thweek ability first - I've replaced the 1 straight with a 2 straight. now I must, when performing the barrel roll treat my 1 straight as a 1 bank, but there's no more 1 straight template to swap to a bank. It's kindof similar to the FAQ ruling on Accuracy Corrector and Hot Shot Co-pilot, I must spend the focus token, BUT, I can make it impossible for HSCP to spend the token, because I used accuracy corrector first. - You have a choice to spend focus or resolve accuracy, HSCP doesn't force the resolution order upon you, I don't think the MKII title forces that resolution order either.

I see him more dangerous when there is a low-mid level pilots which happen to have good abilities and would be awesome with an elite slot. Like Ezra, Eaden,, Jess, Garven (with Mindlink), Kanan, Chopper, Etc ... Some see more play than others, but he hurts the others ability to see play

8 minutes ago, Ravncat said:

That's where the problem lies - rules tell me when I have 2 effects, i chose the order in which they trigger - this has nothing to do with the card text itself. I declare barrel roll - Zeta Ace + Mk II title text become active. I chose to trigger Zeta Ace Thweek ability first - I've replaced the 1 straight with a 2 straight. now I must, when performing the barrel roll treat my 1 straight as a 1 bank, but there's no more 1 straight template to swap to a bank. It's kindof similar to the FAQ ruling on Accuracy Corrector and Hot Shot Co-pilot, you can make it impossible for HSCP to spend the token, because you used accuracy corrector first. - You have a choice to spend focus or resolve accuracy, HSCP doesn't force the resolution order upon you, I don't think the MKII title forces that resolution order either.

And as with HSCP/AC, I'll keep arguing for the way I think it should work, until something official says otherwise.

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

And as with HSCP/AC, I'll keep arguing for the way I think it should work, until something official says otherwise.

like the FAQ? pg 18 "

"

4 minutes ago, Ravncat said:

like the FAQ? pg 18 "

If the defender has Hotshot Co-pilot equipped, and the attacker cannot modify

his dice such as from Snap Shot or after resolving Accuracy Corrector, the

attacker is not able to spend a focus token.

"

I've stopped arguing about that one

3 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I've stopped arguing about that one

ahh, my apologies, I thought your previous statement was because you hadn't seen the entry. as for Zeta Ace Thweek - I think there's enough there to add to the mounds of FAQ questions. I'm inclined to go with the HSCP precedent, because it seems to be the same underlying reasoning - but, who knows which way FFG will eventually go - if they resolve it! I don't think they've ever resolved a question pre-release, so if we get a new FAQ before guns for hire - we won't know the "official" answer for a long time.

Thweek will be benefitting a lot from current competitive meta! Miranda gives him excellent ability, so does Dengar, Biggs and so on, it will be very powerful ship against anyone!

I'm not even that sorry that he doesn't have EPT, because it can generate so much more with minimal price tag. So he is safe choice in Scum squads.

On ‎25‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 2:48 AM, ficklegreendice said:

Thweek can also just copy ps so...hello?

This.

If I was using Thweek, I'd consider his pilot ability to say "your PS is as good as the best PS on the opposing side", build him to arc-dodge with Virago (which he's juuuust good enough to take), take a decent initiative bid and know for a fact I have a guy with Advanced Sensors and Starviper MkII moving last.

If you see a 'must have' pilot ability, then that's a bonus that you'll need to improvise a plan to use, but the above option will always be available and always work.

If thweek becomes a strong ship in play; it will shift the meta. (always good)

This in turn makes people will bring counter lists; if they don't they will copy the thweek list that becomes on top

Personally Thweek; to me at least looks like he could potentially be a silver meta bullet. IMHO

At the very least if he become prominent; people will at least think "S*** if I take X, am gonna get my a** * Thweek'ed"

Despite the long list of potential things Threek can do, he is once again a small ship in a mindlink/jumpmaster faction.

The Viper is a good ship but takes getting used to. As many people have discussed, the Viper doesn't have a "arc dodger" dial due to lack of greens, only one (potentially two) high PS pilots and in some cases, overcosted. With that in mind, will Threek bring enough to the tables to stop you from bringing Jumpmasters, Shadowcasters and Protec Fighters?

In a casual game, sure. In a competitive setting where consistent and ruthless efficiency rain, time will tell.

Being that I am one of the few people that actually dared to fly the Viper in a competitive setting, i'm eager to see more on the top tables.

1 minute ago, Viktus106 said:

Despite the long list of potential things Threek can do, he is once again a small ship in a mindlink/jumpmaster faction.

The Viper is a good ship but takes getting used to. As many people have discussed, the Viper doesn't have a "arc dodger" dial due to lack of greens, only one (potentially two) high PS pilots and in some cases, overcosted. With that in mind, will Threek bring enough to the tables to stop you from bringing Jumpmasters, Shadowcasters and Protec Fighters?

In a casual game, sure. In a competitive setting where consistent and ruthless efficiency rain, time will tell.

Being that I am one of the few people that actually dared to fly the Viper in a competitive setting, i'm eager to see more on the top tables.

Nym has gone a long way, I think, to making Scum not just mindlink any more. His normal setup really, really wants VI, and he doesn't have anything like the dial for Mindlink. I wouldn't be surprised to see Thweek in that context, and similarly, Thweek fits nicely as a wingman for two-ship lists - but I'd usually find myself preferring Guri I suspect.

31 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Nym has gone a long way, I think, to making Scum not just mindlink any more. His normal setup really, really wants VI, and he doesn't have anything like the dial for Mindlink. I wouldn't be surprised to see Thweek in that context, and similarly, Thweek fits nicely as a wingman for two-ship lists - but I'd usually find myself preferring Guri I suspect.

I honestly do not believe we are going to see a two ship list involving Threek + 1, Starviper is still a weird ship with a confusing role.

That being said:

Threek: MkII title + Autothrusters
Asajj: Mindlink + Title
Fenn: Mindlink + Title + Autothrusters

Asajj and Fenn are proven quality and Threek becomes what ever the opponent has.

4 minutes ago, Viktus106 said:

I honestly do not believe we are going to see a two ship list involving Threek + 1, Starviper is still a weird ship with a confusing role.

That being said:

Threek: MkII title + Autothrusters
Asajj: Mindlink + Title
Fenn: Mindlink + Title + Autothrusters

Asajj and Fenn are proven quality and Threek becomes what ever the opponent has.

Two ship Mindlink just doesn't work IME.