So in the standard Dengar/Tel build-

Expertise, Title, Ex Mun, Plasmas, K4, Unhinged, Chips

VI, Ex Mun, Plasmas, K4, Unhinged, Chips

What is your opinion on dropping Dengar's Extra Munitions to give him Engine Upgrade? So often Debgar's action doesn't really matter because of free focus+evades, that it would be really nice to have the option to boost alongside the native barrel roll. It would also lend him better ability to get into range one post-alpha to keep up with the four dice attacks. Thoughts?

It's not a bad idea, but you lose 2 things by doing that. Of course, the extra torp, which can be very strong. But, more importantly, you lose the initiative bid. That can be huge when it comes to range and arc. In most circumstances, the initiative will gain you more than the EU in itself. And an extra torp is another 4 dice attack.

I feel like the extra torp on Dengar is less useful because of his ability to stay at range one with the increased mobility. Losing the initiative bid definitely hurts.

1 hour ago, Jturn314 said:

I feel like the extra torp on Dengar is less useful because of his ability to stay at range one with the increased mobility. Losing the initiative bid definitely hurts.

Losing the bid means you should lose just about every mirror match -- even the boost from EU is still going to come before your opponent's list moves.

When playing a popular list, the mirror should generally be among your primary concerns on how to beat. This is why people cut upgrades just for the bid, and we have lists coming in at 95/96 points.

1 hour ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

Losing the bid means you should lose just about every mirror match -- even the boost from EU is still going to come before your opponent's list moves.

When playing a popular list, the mirror should generally be among your primary concerns on how to beat. This is why people cut upgrades just for the bid, and we have lists coming in at 95/96 points.

Any ideas on the possibility of dropping munitions on Dengar entirely? Gives a three point bid, which beats the mirror and most other things trying to bid as well.

4 hours ago, Jturn314 said:

Any ideas on the possibility of dropping munitions on Dengar entirely? Gives a three point bid, which beats the mirror and most other things trying to bid as well.

I think it's fine -- the missiles can be somewhat difficult to get off against a skilled opponent -- I've seen more matches where at least one missile is wasted... Though I do admit I was running RAClo for this store season, so my matches I often prevented the missiles from going off via specific methods, so my view is slightly skewed.

Any higher bid will help you vs the mirror. I've seen versions of DenTel coming in cheaper -- Dengar v. Dengar, you really want yours moving last to get out of the enemy Dengar arc. That's standard for any ship, but possibly doing it and keeping him in your arc is huge (assuming he's not able to just shoot Tel at the time).

I don't forsee any of the new shiny actually getting rid of DenTel. Even Rebel Junkyard (IMO, this is the boogie-man list now) doesn't want to see two sturdy ships that can literally fly circles around them.