I have 2 questions about action cards.

1/Immobilising shot says the target can spend one action to remove a toke from the card. If I m not wrong you have ONLY one action per turn so the target after being hit will spend at least 2 round Immobilized.

The card is broken or there's an error and should be 'spend one manoeuvre'?.

2/Risposte and Counterblow cards are 'reaction' linked to the use of Parry and Block active defenses.

It s correct to say that if somebody try to hit you and you can use both Block & Parry actions and the opponent miss you can activate BOTH Risposte & Counterblow?

What enemy can survive a double FREE attack?

thanks in advance for your attention

Immobilising Shot: I don't know if it's broken but that's what the card says. It does seem a bit overpowered on the face of it. Since you're looking at 2-3 rounds being immobilised and your maneuvers count for nothing! I would house rule it to be any "action" (maneuver or action) to remove a recharge token.

Riposte and Counterblow: That's why if you're going to attack someone, it pays not to miss!

Both of those cards require that the active player miss. This one actually is more underpowered than it sounds, as the game is slanted towards successes instead of failures. You're also limited by the recharge tokens on the Parry and Block actions. So just make sure you spend those A/C/E points wisely!

Also many mobs can survive a double attack. It just depends on the defence and soak rating. For example, a Chaos Warrior with 2 defence and 9 soak and 18 wounds can easily survive such attacks!

I don't have access to the card right now, but are the tokens on the card recharge tokens? In that case one token gets removed at end of attackers turn as well.

Immo shot has 4 recharge tokens + 1 if you score 2 boons.

Let s take this example the long range attacker win initiative:

1/round target is hit place 4 tokens

end of turn remove another one

the defender use is action and remove a token.

2/round the attacker continue to do what he want if the defender is without range attack.

end of turn remove the one token.

the defender use is action and remove the last token.

From the 3' round the action IMMO SHOT is fully recharged. this mean onhis turn the defender is not more immobilized but unfortunately the action card is ready to use again so if the attacker hit again we are in round back to round 1

madpoet said:

yes, i suppose by the rules they could, but man, what a **** move!! lol. id chart that one up to power gaming and give the person trying to do it the stare, but if you are playing by the rules, then it goes. i agree with lex though, this is weakened by the fact the attack needs to miss and, while powerful, wont happen as often as you think. (unless maybe the player gets imp block and imp parry as well... then thats a bit scary...)

evilben said:

It's no more of a **** move than doing a Find Weakness then a Cleave Shot or any other combination of skills and cards that give you an advantage. I'd actually be disappointed if players pulled their punches. As a GM I have the infinite hordes of beastmen, orcs, undead, chaos spawns and 4 nasty gods on my side. The players can keep their Riposte / Counterblows!

One of the things I like the best of WFRP is that the setting itself is based on the premise that even if you are good, even if you're exceptional, even if you're the most heroic and capable man on the planet, that's still not enough . At most, you'll have delayed the inevitable, at best you've painted yourself as Sigmar's champion and every villain from here to the end of the wasted lands is going to want to get a piece of you, if only to add your head to their trophy collection!

gruntl said:

I thought recharge tokens are only removed at the end of your turn as an active player? (p. 50 WFRP)

Rorschach Six said:

Yes, but not having the card in front of me, I think the point is that in this case the recharge tokens are removed at the end of each turn of the active player, the target can also take an action to remove them, and folks were working out how long the immobilisation could continue in that scenario.

Personally I have no problem with the attacker having another go at it - if you are immobilised you are not going to be able to stop them trying. It is kind of funny that we have folks in the forums claiming on the one hand that the game is too easy on the PCs, and on the other too hard.

Rorschach Six said:

Yes, that is what I wrote.

The "attacker" is the person firing the Immobilizing shot, when he's the active player one token gets removed. I was just pointing out that tokens will be removed from the card even without the defender using a single action (well, it will then last 3 rounds). I do not find it unbalanced, just use more monsters to hunt the shooter down. Or let the immobilized monster use some ranged actions.

You dont think that a very powerful monster can be stopped FOREVER and Killed ALWAYS by a single ARCHER?

Immo shot action & Rapid Fire are simply totally off balance. One archer character just created can kill without effort the most powerful monster until now described.

That is not a problem at all if the GM is able to make judgement calls on the fly. In my opinion there are too many people on this forum who has the idea that the GM is just another player and has no power to stop powergaming munchkins.

If you have a player that uses this cheesy move over and over again I would either throw purple/black dice at him (for using a predictable tactic), until he gets it or just invent an action on the fly for the mighty monster of doom. Maybe the Chaos warrior Franz Schwarz has received a dark gift from his chaos master, "Rage of the Blood good", that makes him unstoppable by any means (and thus immune against immobilizing shot).

If your mighty monster fights alone and you know that one of your players has access to this card then I think it is your job as a GM to challenge that. That could mean giving the monster immunity vs that kind of effects or giving them ranged abilities that can affect the archer. You can also try to make sure that the monster wins the initiative (burns those A dice, or maybe it's C on initiative), or just surprise the PC's.

YES, you're right.

But saying a Master can solve the matter doesn't mean the card is not poorly balanced.

I would rule that if you parried and blocked to make someone miss and then used riposte... then you would not be able to use counterblow afterward, because you haven't just blocked because riposte is in between. That's our logic. Besides if the players WANT to exploit holes in RPG systems there is no system that works well...

This card is indeed one the worst. Come on. Immobilized by an arrow stuck into a wall ? The ground ? Come on...

I like the idea that people can use manœuvres instead of actions to remove recharge tokens. Which would, in effect, cause fatigue if you rip yourself away from the arrow in one round. (3 manœuvres, ie. 2 fatigue)

Gallow we were arguing about Immobilizing shot which is even more unbalanced than Rapid Shot

madpoet said:

Hehe yeah I know but I had no comment to that. I just wanted to share my ruling on riposte / counter blow since he mentioned that as well in the original post

I've looked at the card earlier today and it certainly has issues if you look at it from a player versus player perspective. But it has a recharge equal to the time the npc is immobilized, so effectively he can only hold one npc down at a time and he won't be doing his best damage then if I remember the card right. Is he using it to hold the main NPC? Then send minions to attack him.

Also as a GM... do some crazy stuff, don't be too predictable. I have had a monster spend 3 fatigue (3 wounds) to rush up to a wizard blasting it, put all it's dice (5 fortune + 1 expertise) into this one attack and almost kill the wizard because he kept blasting it from range. Don't worry about the villains... they are there to die and they are not in short supply