What is really obnoxious is when your opponent has Avenger/BT and Lambdas and brings Advanced Gunnery, Sensor Net, and Fire Lanes. All bad choices.

DEEEAAAAAAATH

Good luck trying to destroy an ISD when its flying at speed 3, activating last and then first next turn, due to a high bid and having 7 activation's.
Or trying to get away from it.

1 minute ago, Sniperbon said:

Good luck trying to destroy an ISD when its flying at speed 3, activating last and then first next turn, due to a high bid and having 7 activation's.
Or trying to get away from it.

My Ships:

2 minutes ago, Sniperbon said:

High activation list's does highlight one of the reasons why activation advantage gets exploited .

In all most all Tournament games, the two most important question's is...
Who is first and who has the most activation's.
If one player has both, then they will most definitely win. And here is why.
If a player has both, then is is obvious that they will out "activate" the opponent and always have their most important ship go last/first. And there is nothing the opponent can do about this, no amount of maneuvering/setup/shooting/objectives or commands can stop someone from doing that. It is no longer a tactical choice in the game because no other choice is anywhere near as good as activating you're ship last, jumping into range. Going first, firing and then flying off.

No.

Being out-activated and second player just means you need to employ a trailer and acknowledge you may not always get your first pick.

I know that when I play swarms my biggest struggle is not putting multiple ships in danger. Yes, I can always fly my most important ship away, but when you've got traffic you can't always control what is going to have to activate third.

When I know there is a good chance I will be second player, however, I always place another hard-hitting ship immediately behind my vanguard. My opponent might blast my ISD or MC80 or whatever then fly past it... but my Hammerhead or Raider with External racks is waiting two paces behind for them. Just because you have fewer ships doesn't mean you can't arrange for your ships to punish all the first player's choices.

3 minutes ago, Sniperbon said:

Good luck trying to destroy an ISD when its flying at speed 3, activating last and then first next turn, due to a high bid and having 7 activation's.
Or trying to get away from it.

List building challenge: who can make the least bad 7-activation 15-point bid list with an Avenger ISD & Boarding Troopers?

2 hours ago, TaeSWXW said:

None of those allow you to drop someone to speed 0. Only Konstantine allows you to speed ships up - which is what you really want. Slowing down the ISD allows it to keep it's front arc on you longer. Speeding it up forces it to fly right past you - doubly effective if you're going speed three in the other direction. Better yet, give it a Slicer Tool on it's way past so it doesn't have anything useful.

I meant the defending ship. No tokens at medium range is a lot better than close.

5 minutes ago, TaeSWXW said:

When I know there is a good chance I will be second player, however, I always place another hard-hitting ship immediately behind my vanguard. My opponent might blast my ISD or MC80 or whatever then fly past it... but my Hammerhead or Raider with External racks is waiting two paces behind for them. Just because you have fewer ships doesn't mean you can't arrange for your ships to punish all the first player's choices.

If I get to kill an ISD and all I take in return is an OE/Racks Raider, even a double arc, I'm more than 100% comfortable with that. You won't kill and ISD with that barrage, not even close. Sort of what I was getting at when I said it was easier to kill Demolisher. Demo might not be able to take that salvo, but an ISD DEFINITELY can.

http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=122811&key=f31daef57f9801caba4a6d4b91e9bdd2

2 minutes ago, IronNerd said:

If I get to kill an ISD and all I take in return is an OE/Racks Raider, even a double arc, I'm more than 100% comfortable with that. You won't kill and ISD with that barrage, not even close. Sort of what I was getting at when I said it was easier to kill Demolisher. Demo might not be able to take that salvo, but an ISD DEFINITELY can.

I think you missed a step in the conversation.

12 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

In my playbook, the argument is "Just because you could take a close range hit doens't mean it was ever desirable or intentioned for you to do so."

Close Range of an ISD-I is Deaaaaath.

I play my whole game with that as the very concept... A Large Ship will only survive it if things go its way... Including you packing the Right upgrades and being undamaged to begin with...

So don't ever, ever risk it. Don't ever give it a goddamn chance to do a bunch of Damage to you. Ever.

The moment you think "I can take it", you're being Lando levels of Gambler, and that's too much for my tired old heart.... Y'lose Rustbuckets that way.

If my ships don't have 1 hull left, no defense tokens and no shields, am I really playing Armada? I'm starting to get enough experience with certain ships so I know when I need to pull out. It's quite a rush not knowing if I can hold it all together.

I'm sure it's terribly frustrating too when I do manage to escape with 1 or 2 hull.

1 minute ago, Sniperbon said:

http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=122811&key=f31daef57f9801caba4a6d4b91e9bdd2

You can do better than that.

---

Trash
Author: TaeArmada

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 391/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Sensor Net

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points)
- Avenger ( 5 points)
- The Grand Inquisitor ( 4 points)
- Boarding Troopers ( 3 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 169 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Suppressor ( 4 points)
- Admiral Montferrat ( 5 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 39 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Repair Crews ( 4 points)
= 27 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
= 23 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
= 23 total ship cost

2 Lambda-class Shuttles ( 30 points)
1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points)
1 Ciena Ree ( 17 points)

16 minutes ago, Sniperbon said:

High activation list's does highlight one of the reasons why activation advantage gets exploited .

In all most all Tournament games, the two most important question's is...
Who is first and who has the most activation's.
If one player has both, then they will most likely win. And here is why.
If a player has both, then is is obvious that they will out "activate" the opponent and always have their most important ship go last/first. And there is nothing the opponent can do about this, no amount of maneuvering/setup/shooting/objectives or commands can stop someone from doing that. It is no longer a tactical choice in the game because no other choice is anywhere near as good as activating you're ship last, jumping into range. Going first, firing and then flying off.

Ftfy

Just now, Undeadguy said:

If my ships don't have 1 hull left, no defense tokens and no shields, am I really playing Armada? I'm starting to get enough experience with certain ships so I know when I need to pull out. It's quite a rush not knowing if I can hold it all together.

I'm sure it's terribly frustrating too when I do manage to escape with 1 or 2 hull.

Oh, its great when it happens.

But there's still a level of "Did I really need to do that?" to it, I feel...

2 minutes ago, TaeSWXW said:

You can do better than that.

---

Trash
Author: TaeArmada

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 391/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Sensor Net

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points)
- Avenger ( 5 points)
- The Grand Inquisitor ( 4 points)
- Boarding Troopers ( 3 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 169 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Suppressor ( 4 points)
- Admiral Montferrat ( 5 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 39 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Repair Crews ( 4 points)
= 27 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
= 23 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
= 23 total ship cost

2 Lambda-class Shuttles ( 30 points)
1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points)
1 Ciena Ree ( 17 points)

391 is a solid bid...but not a guarantee.

Love the objectives tho.

1 minute ago, Madaghmire said:

391 is a solid bid...but not a guarantee.

Love the objectives tho.

Yeah, I think I ditch RBD and bring it up to 386. Would need to shave another 2 to feel confident I would get bid 95% of the time.

6 minutes ago, Sniperbon said:

Good luck trying to destroy an ISD when its flying at speed 3, activating last and then first next turn, due to a high bid and having 7 activation's.
Or trying to get away from it.

I'll take that challenge.

A list designed to be a second player and to limit ISD escape routes after that strike will do wonders.

3 minutes ago, PT106 said:

I'll take that challenge.

A list designed to be a second player and to limit ISD escape routes after that strike will do wonders.

Hell, not an hour ago I dropped an 8 Activation Rebel list into the Fleet Forum....

Gentlemen. I think we're confused.

@Sniperbon is concerned about 7-activation, high-bid, Avenger/BT ruining Armada. The challenge is not to beat that list, the challenge is to create that list.

5 minutes ago, PT106 said:

I'll take that challenge.

A list designed to be a second player and to limit ISD escape routes after that strike will do wonders.

Oh the ISD OG PT one oh six 'bout to '86 some spaceship.

Sorry forgot about my 16 point bid

http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=122811&key=f31daef57f9801caba4a6d4b91e9bdd2

32 minutes ago, TaeSWXW said:

I think you missed a step in the conversation.

Perhaps I did, can you help me to understand your point? I read what you were saying as "Yes, I may not be able to stop the combo from happening, but I CAN punish the ISD in response." Reading it as such, I agreed that you can set up some nasty retaliation, but you aren't going to end an ISD with said retaliation. Especially after it just killed your big bad piece, as it is designed to do.

If I misread that, help me understand.

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

Except for your larger ships. I agree a close range shot from an ISD I is scary but the MC80, Vic, and ISD can normally take at least 1 shot like that. Now with BT, they just die, which I think is the point of this thread. If your opponent is using BT on a CR90 or a Raider, well, it likely would have died anyway.

Now Imps can take BT Avenger and Demo with a massive bid and have 2 ships capable of wiping another ship off the table with no response, which is the bigger issue. If you only play MSU, then Avenger isn't a terribly big deal. Like I said earlier, your ships just die outright to that front arc.

Actually against Vics my VSD surived the front arc of his boarding troopers avenger. 11 damage is still a lot to roll unless you have Vader.

54 minutes ago, TaeSWXW said:

What is really obnoxious is when your opponent has Avenger/BT and Lambdas and brings Advanced Gunnery, Sensor Net, and Fire Lanes. All bad choices.

Advanced gunnery every time. Oh that poor ISD getting last first'd by MC30s.

Its strange how often this breaks down into, "why is nobody running mc30s?". They'll be nerfed soon, it breaks my heart.

Just now, Ginkapo said:

Actually against Vics my VSD surived the front arc of his boarding troopers avenger. 9 damage is still a lot to roll unless you have Vader.

I played a tournament where an ISD I with GT had close on both my Vics. I did not have Tua ECM and both came out fine. Dropped 6 shields and maybe a crit on both, but largely OK. Maybe Avenger BT could have killed one, by 11 damage is asking for a lot.