8 minutes ago, Cerve said:

I think that if you becomes good with fly-skill, you can run it at PS6. He needs some dice modificator, so something like ADV+Predator, or Attanni Mindlink etc.

Eh, he reminds me of Tetran Cowell, there just isn't enough green on the Starviper dial to make him worth it, and you can't get him up to that PS9 sweet spot either. Thweek looks really interesting though, and Dischargers is a great combo for the Vaksai. I can ALMOST make Talonbane good now.

5 hours ago, Thormind said:

Yeah but at least it's only when facing Biggs. I really like the concept. He only as strong as your opponent pilot and if you are facing a squad of generic ships he becomes a generic pilot. Good but not all the time. IMO thats an example of great design. Fun, interesting and different ability but doesnt seem to be OP.

Plus, I can't speak for everybody else, but I think it's cool that if Thweek is prevalent enough people might have to factor it in when list building because some pilot abilities could be a menace on him. If I have thweek for instance there are several pilots that I am extremely happy to see.

Thweek will usually be weaker than the ship he's copying because he can't taylor his upgrades and squad mates to synergize with his ability like his target almost certainly has. It's a gimmick.

35 minutes ago, Mward1984 said:

there just isn't enough green on the Starviper dial to make him worth it

I think you underestimate the utility of having 4 barrel roll options.

They must have really had a heated meeting when they realised they couldn't offer up an example build with 'stay on target'

1 hour ago, SabineKey said:

Fang Fighters, Lancers, and Jumpmasters can usually afford to do that just fine.

Scyks as well.

3 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

Thweek will usually be weaker than the ship he's copying because he can't taylor his upgrades and squad mates to synergize with his ability like his target almost certainly has. It's a gimmick.

Not necessarily

He's harder to hurt at rangec3 than biggs, and when copying dengar he hits nearly as hard for a fraction of the price

Etc

Only problem is lower ps

45 minutes ago, Mep said:

It's like he is ordering up a bunch of sushi.

I think a 1-bank Talon Roll must just be a bunch of wasabi with some rice stuck to the outside - that is one crazy maneuver!

5 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Not necessarily

He's harder to hurt at rangec3 than biggs, and when copying dengar he hits nearly as hard for a fraction of the price

Etc

Only problem is lower ps

Torkil Mux

1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:

Not necessarily

He's harder to hurt at rangec3 than biggs, and when copying dengar he hits nearly as hard for a fraction of the price

Etc

Only problem is lower ps

Harder to hit than biggs at range 3 perhaps, but without the extra stuff biggs has, especially in wave 11. Hits about as hard as dengar, but depends on build. Really needs FCS to take full advantage of dengar or quickdraws abilities. For quickdraws ability, you need PRS, at which point you might actually be better than qwuickdraw, but lose autothrusters. Lower PS hurts for dengar, and doesn't have the PWT to go along with it for shooting out of arc.

3 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Harder to hit than biggs at range 3 perhaps, but without the extra stuff biggs has, especially in wave 11. Hits about as hard as dengar, but depends on build. Really needs FCS to take full advantage of dengar or quickdraws abilities. For quickdraws ability, you need PRS, at which point you might actually be better than qwuickdraw, but lose autothrusters. Lower PS hurts for dengar, and doesn't have the PWT to go along with it for shooting out of arc.

Can't shoot out a arc, but autothrusters

Also 32 points

Against SF, imo you're universally better off aping QD's ps with potential bid and go to town arc dodging. I've had a fairly easily time of backtracking lower ps pilots since his release, so havin a counter measure there is a very good idea

Sure you get no pilot ability, but you're a base 25 point ship after mk3

8 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

Thweek will usually be weaker than the ship he's copying because he can't taylor his upgrades and squad mates to synergize with his ability like his target almost certainly has. It's a gimmick.

There are probably tons of abilities i would not want to see on a starviper (compared to there ship) bunch of the hwk abilities are an **** ships.

There are tons of support abilities he will be a monster with let alone just mainstream good abilities, sometimes he will be weaker yes, but often if there is not a great Pilot ability for him you can just take there high pilot skill.

7 minutes ago, Icelom said:

There are probably tons of abilities i would not want to see on a starviper (compared to there ship) bunch of the hwk abilities are an **** ships.

There are tons of support abilities he will be a monster with let alone just mainstream good abilities, sometimes he will be weaker yes, but often if there is not a great Pilot ability for him you can just take there high pilot skill.

Yeah, let's give Thweek Jan Ors's ability so you can buff Dengar and doubletap people for like 10 a turn at close range.

Lets talk lists. Ive been waiting for this SV love for so long. Since I bought my 4 vipers the day they came out.

I like it, I really do, but I have yet to discover the super build that just stands out. It might be there, though.

Best thing I can see off the bat is a cheaper filler guri or a cheaper mindlink carrier guri, but the problem is that all the lists that used to run her have better options. She is still frail and ps 5. she was a part of attani lists at some point but now she isn't no more. not competitively anyways.

and Would you squeeze her into paratani because of the 3point reduction? nah.. probably not, right? she is good but..

and what about scum aces lists? i was flying the trip scum aces ps 9 (teroch, zuck, Fenn) build at some point and guri wouldn't fit into something like that either with ps 5-7. And Would I swop a pilot and bring xizor into that list as the third ps 9 ace? nah, not really.

and then there is the xisor swarm. I love it. and I know it can work. But in this meta its just not a good option, really. Xisor will get a minor bump and maybe the title will free up points to make him a beast somehow. I have trouble seeing it, though. I think he still wants ps 9.

To me the biggest question is, how mark 2 vipers will fly with PTL. if that proves to be powerfull and they prove able to shed stress routinely, THAT will be the gamechanger. if not.. idk how much new stuff you'll be able to build around these ships.

35 minutes ago, T70 Driver said:

Scyks as well.

The three I mentioned I believe have the easiest time because the possess green turns, though Scyks are workable.

So, let's assume for a moment that Thweek is good enough to be worth running competitively in some configuration. What else do you put in that squad?

You've got roughly 70 points to work with (assuming Thweek takes at least one or two upgrades). What's the best set of Scum ships you can throw together that...

• Costs about 70 points (or less if you want an initiative bid)
• Doesn't use mindlink (or does use it, but doesn't care that Thweek isn't in the link)
• Can deal well with swarms of generics (the matchup where Thweek is least valuable)
• Doesn't rely on any hard assumptions about what your opponents will be (because you can't give Thweek a particular pilot ability if you never happen to play against it)
• Synergizes well with having a pseudo-pocket-ace

3 minutes ago, kris40k said:

Yeah, let's give Thweek Jan Ors's ability so you can buff Dengar and doubletap people for like 10 a turn at close range.

Jan Ors ability only works the one attack. You don't get it the whole turn. It's not a bad pickup, but it depends on what it is she's buffing. But when it comes to HWK's you're more likely to see Roark or Palob. Palob's ability on a StarViper? Yes please. Roarks would be worth it if your going for a completely unbuffed Thweek at 25pts, and you don't already have the PS advantage.

1 minute ago, Mward1984 said:

Jan Ors ability only works the one attack. You don't get it the whole turn. It's not a bad pickup, but it depends on what it is she's buffing. But when it comes to HWK's you're more likely to see Roark or Palob. Palob's ability on a StarViper? Yes please. Roarks would be worth it if your going for a completely unbuffed Thweek at 25pts, and you don't already have the PS advantage.

Good point, I had forgotten Jan was a single attack in the round.

5 minutes ago, EdgeOfDreams said:

So, let's assume for a moment that Thweek is good enough to be worth running competitively in some configuration. What else do you put in that squad?

You've got roughly 70 points to work with (assuming Thweek takes at least one or two upgrades). What's the best set of Scum ships you can throw together that...

• Costs about 70 points (or less if you want an initiative bid)
• Doesn't use mindlink (or does use it, but doesn't care that Thweek isn't in the link)
• Can deal well with swarms of generics (the matchup where Thweek is least valuable)
• Doesn't rely on any hard assumptions about what your opponents will be (because you can't give Thweek a particular pilot ability if you never happen to play against it)
• Synergizes well with having a pseudo-pocket-ace

Minor point but may have been missed. Some are saying Thweek can guarantee top PS to move last. This isn't the case if your opponent has adaptability or VI on their highest PS as it is only starting PS that is shadowed.

So if Thweek ever did become a big thing, he doesn't want to meet a list of generics with an adjusted PS.

Still amazing fun for my favourite ship.

2 minutes ago, Mward1984 said:

Thweek — StarViper
Talonbane Cobra
Fenn Rau

Not sure I'm sold on your exact loadout, but I like the triple aces list concept for sure.

1 minute ago, Mward1984 said:

Thweek — StarViper	28
Fire-Control System	2
Glitterstim	2
Autothrusters	2
StarViper Mk. II	-3
Virago	1
Ship Total: 32
Talonbane Cobra — Kihraxz Fighter	28
Adrenaline Rush	1
Cloaking Device	2
Stygium Particle Accelerator	2
Stealth Device	3
Hull Upgrade	3
Vaksai	0
Ship Total: 34
Fenn Rau — Protectorate Starfighter	28
Push the Limit	3
Autothrusters	2
Concord Dawn Protector	1
Ship Total: 34

NOTE: Talonbane and his build is optional. You could replace him with anything else if you wanted. You could drop Glittles on Thweek as well if you needed points.

I just have a pathological fetish for Talonbane and the Scum Cloaking Device. It is well documented by Store Tournament players and organisers.

1 minute ago, FlipmodeSH said:

Minor point but may have been missed. Some are saying Thweek can guarantee top PS to move last. This isn't the case if your opponent has adaptability or VI on their highest PS as it is only starting PS that is shadowed.

So if Thweek ever did become a big thing, he doesn't want to meet a list of generics with an adjusted PS.

Still amazing fun for my favourite ship.

That's not actually correct. The "Shadowed" condition card says you copy the PS the target has after setup. VI and Adaptability have both taken effect by then.

1 hour ago, Tvboy said:

Thweek will usually be weaker than the ship he's copying because he can't taylor his upgrades and squad mates to synergize with his ability like his target almost certainly has. It's a gimmick.

I'm not so sure....

The ability to copy a useful ability can be quite impactful. The chance do that *or* copy pilot skill - that's really pretty decent.

At the very least he'll be a great addition to casual games;

Flavor of th'week.