2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Thweek doesn't have IG2000, nothing happens.

He gets both pilot abilities, but unless it's epic, one of them will almost certainly be B, and so won't do anything. But IGGyCeek is a very solid Thweek.

No they're not. They're the same list played against a different opponent.

If you bring Thweek with bodyguard Serissu and a Tactical Jammer Scout (or whatever) and your opponent DOESN'T have Biggs, you've now got a list built around protecting a ship the enemy has little need to target. How does he work in that context?

My point is that you don't bring Thwiggs, you bring Thweek - if he can copy Biggs, then great, but you can't build a list on the assumption that he copies Biggs every game, because Biggs won't be there to copy every game.

Man, that list is terrible. Why you have to pick Serissu with Bodyguard or others?

Of course you're not facing Biggs all the time, and of course you're not building your list just for that case. It's obvious.

In fact, I'm saying (again) that ThweekBiggs doesn't need any protection for other ships. While Rebels builds up an entire list around Biggs, you can build your list as you wish. Copy Biggs is great, and you need nothing more because you set it for free. You don't need any help from other ships, you're not turtle up so much as a Rebel will do. But ThweekBiggs becomes amazing because you get that rule for free. You have a Jolly ship, you can adapt as you wish. ****, if you look that the odds are against you, you can even copy any other Rebel ship around Biggs, instead of copying it, and just crush him.

You don't need to build a list around Thweek, that's what I'm saying.

1 hour ago, Cerve said:

Man, that list is terrible. Why you have to pick Serissu with Bodyguard or others?

Of course you're not facing Biggs all the time, and of course you're not building your list just for that case. It's obvious.

In fact, I'm saying (again) that ThweekBiggs doesn't need any protection for other ships. While Rebels builds up an entire list around Biggs, you can build your list as you wish. Copy Biggs is great, and you need nothing more because you set it for free. You don't need any help from other ships, you're not turtle up so much as a Rebel will do. But ThweekBiggs becomes amazing because you get that rule for free. You have a Jolly ship, you can adapt as you wish. ****, if you look that the odds are against you, you can even copy any other Rebel ship around Biggs, instead of copying it, and just crush him.

You don't need to build a list around Thweek, that's what I'm saying.

I was discussing a point someone made about it being possible to build Scum lists to make Thwiggs as tough to kill as Biggs in things like Rebel Junkyard, and pointing out why that wouldn't work in practice.

We're apparently agreeing, now.

I will say that not a lot has been said about this card:

It is a very situational card and lots of people can think of ways how it just won't work. I'm thinking about how it can work, though. In today's tournament games, you are mostly flying against 2-3 ship lists. If you can give an enemy ship an ion token at the right time, then it can win you the game. If you are able to just ionize them and set them up for a bunch of R1 strikes, then you can destroy a single ship in the next turn....if everything works right.

If you set it up and then decide not to take the ion token, as anyone smart would do, then you can get out of jail free. Not game breaking, but pretty neat. If you have Pulsed Ray Shield, then you can regen the shield and not take any bad actions for it. Not crazy, but pretty neat. Might work more on someone who can withstand some damage, like Xizor or Guri, but still not bad even on a Kihraxz Fighter. If you got hit, then it's pretty bad and probably into hull as it goes at this point. Still, one shield back for free is cool.

Maybe they just take the ion for that turn and you don't have something set up. That's also not too terribly bad in most cases. You do at least get a shield back and that is a half price Shield Upgrade. Well, Pulsed Ray Shield and Ion Discharges total 4 pts, so that's fair, but you still have the chance to redo your shields again with Pulsed Ray Shield. As stated, the combo works on those with both upgrades...which means it doesn't have a lot of shields and is closer to death, but hey! It's not horrible.

Would anyone use it on a ship that can't take Pulsed Ray Shield? Well, you might build a list with Ion Bombs, Ion Torpedoes, or even Ion Pulse Generator (on another ship, of course). You could give it to someone who has Genius and Ion Bombs. Maybe someone in your list has Ion Torps and you have a ship that gets caught in the blast. Maybe you could even dish off your Ion to someone just out of range....or maybe pass the 2nd Ion to a large ship?

I wouldn't say it's a bad upgrade. It's not broken. I think it will have some uses. I kind of like it.

Put it with EMP or Feedback Array on a Lancer. THat's fun times.

The ol' ion torpedo trick against huge ships...now you can send in some Kirax to the front and not worry about being too close!

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

I was discussing a point someone made about it being possible to build Scum lists to make Thwiggs as tough to kill as Biggs in things like Rebel Junkyard, and pointing out why that wouldn't work in practice.

We're apparently agreeing, now.

You don't need to though

Thrusters stims fill that role just fine and provide for a host of other abilities (esp dengar)

14 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

You don't need to though

Thrusters stims fill that role just fine and provide for a host of other abilities (esp dengar)

Which was my point in the first place.

44 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Put it with EMP or Feedback Array on a Lancer. THat's fun times.

Yes, skip an attack on a 3 primary Lancer (+ no tractor if title is equipped), fun time...

Dace Bonearm (23)
Wired (1)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
4-LOM (1)
Ion Dischargers (2)
Pulsed Ray Shield (2)

Total: 34

Dace is Back! Well....he was never here to begin with.

31 minutes ago, Foxtr0t said:

Yes, skip an attack on a 3 primary Lancer (+ no tractor if title is equipped), fun time...

RAMMING SPEED. Ramming with Ketsu or Assaj can be a very useful tactic.

Besides, I never said it was good. Just fun

32 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Dace Bonearm (23)
Wired (1)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
4-LOM (1)
Ion Dischargers (2)
Pulsed Ray Shield (2)

Total: 34

Dace is Back! Well....he was never here to begin with.

Uuuh!! Dude I have love Dace Bonearm ever since I got my Scum Expansion for X-Wing, but he got drifted apart from usual suspects slowly but surely, now you point something very neat out that I wasn't even thinking, I haven't heard his name in ages.

Sweeeet!

1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

Maybe they just take the ion for that turn and you don't have something set up. That's also not too terribly bad in most cases. You do at least get a shield back and that is a half price Shield Upgrade. Well, Pulsed Ray Shield and Ion Discharges total 4 pts, so that's fair, but you still have the chance to redo your shields again with Pulsed Ray Shield. As stated, the combo works on those with both upgrades...which means it doesn't have a lot of shields and is closer to death, but hey! It's not horrible.

But better yet, it's probably packed on a Vaksai, and on that ship, the combo is a pocket change 2 points, and still leaves 2 mod slots free. On a wants-to-be-at-range-1 Talonbane, that's pretty cheap for action-free shield regeneration!

Plus, the option is a 'may' - so you can always refuse to use it, keep the ion token and perform the speed 1 straight the Khiraxz doesn't actually have on its dial, which can be a good option anyway.

Trandoshan Slaver (29)
Jabba the Hutt (5)
4-LOM (1)
Ion Dischargers (2)

Black Sun Ace (23)
Predator (3)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)
Ion Dischargers (2)
Pulsed Ray Shield (2)
Engine Upgrade (4)
Autothrusters (2)
Vaksai (0)

Black Sun Ace (23)
Predator (3)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)
Ion Dischargers (2)
Pulsed Ray Shield (2)
Engine Upgrade (4)
Autothrusters (2)
Vaksai (0)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Take the ion, knowing I've got a spare, or let me regen every round without worrying about the drawback?

2 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

But better yet, it's probably packed on a Vaksai, and on that ship, the combo is a pocket change 2 points, and still leaves 2 mod slots free. On a wants-to-be-at-range-1 Talonbane, that's pretty cheap for action-free shield regeneration!

Man, I forgot about the Vaksai title! It makes everything better. Man, I think we will see some Khiraxz Fighters on the table soon.

3 hours ago, heychadwick said:

Dace Bonearm (23)
Wired (1)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
4-LOM (1)
Ion Dischargers (2)
Pulsed Ray Shield (2)

Total: 34

Dace is Back! Well....he was never here to begin with.

Sigh... it's sad when you see the base cost of the ship and you mistake it for the total because it seems so much more reasonable than what the total cost really is...

3 hours ago, Zazaa said:

Uuuh!! Dude I have love Dace Bonearm ever since I got my Scum Expansion for X-Wing, but he got drifted apart from usual suspects slowly but surely, now you point something very neat out that I wasn't even thinking, I haven't heard his name in ages.

Sweeeet!

Guri (30)
Attanni Mindlink (1)
Advanced Proton Torpedoes (6)
Fire-Control System (2)
Autothrusters (2)
StarViper Mk. II (-3)
Virago (1)

Dace Bonearm (23)
Attanni Mindlink (1)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Recon Specialist (3)
Ion Dischargers (2)
Pulsed Ray Shield (2)
Moldy Crow (3)

Jakku Gunrunner (15)
Saboteur (2)
Pattern Analyzer (2)
Spacetug Tractor Array (2)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

Man, I forgot about the Vaksai title! It makes everything better. Man, I think we will see some Khiraxz Fighters on the table soon.

They have NEVER NOT BEEN on my table... cause I am Joe Boss and I have a better STAR WARS SPACESHIP BATTLE GAME than the FFG kids have sold the ace-wingers.

When you have played wargames for thirty years you do not wait for the child designers to catch up with you; you just do what you know to be the right thing on your own!

1 hour ago, Joe Boss Red Seven said:

They have NEVER NOT BEEN on my table... cause I am Joe Boss and I have a better STAR WARS SPACESHIP BATTLE GAME than the FFG kids have sold the ace-wingers.

When you have played wargames for thirty years you do not wait for the child designers to catch up with you; you just do what you know to be the right thing on your own!

Yeah, I know you. I've also had more Khiraxz Fighters on the table than Jumpmasters. You know I mean OTHER people's tables, man.

Soon as I saw Kihraxz fighter I knew I need five of them, ever since they have been in my table also. And now FFG will make my "investment" whole lot better and I can't wait to get my Vaksais fleet up in the space.

Still I'm not really sure if that Vaksai tittle is something I understand correctly, it seems like one of those things that is way too good to be true, -1p for every single upgrade I take on them, with minimum cost of 0p.

I can see already three to four extremely bumped up Vaksais in my mind.

On 7/26/2017 at 0:59 AM, Knightcrawler said:

Lieutenant Blount with Veteran Instincts and Ion Pulse Missiles. Fire the missile from up to range 3 (can't miss), because the missile will hit and remove his shield (and his Stealth Device). Then Ten Numb with A Score to Settle (with A Debt to Pay assigned to Thiggs) attacks from up to range 3 (will always deal a crit if you get at least one focus or crit result on any of your three attack dice). With the Mk. II title, Thiigs will be pretty wily even when trying to get rid of 2 Ion Tokens, but he probably won't be able to reposition enough to get away from your shot in the next turn. What I was saying is that because StarVipers only have 1 shield (and won't be regenerating them if they equip Stealth Device), although he might have lots of defense die, it's not crazy to think of at least some hypothetical answers to him. It might be a situational answer, but the scenario you set up is also situational (an extremely defensive Thweek expecting to meet Biggs).

so if I follow, one weakish pilot with a less than ideal missile could remove 1 shield and possibly deal a crit? still rolling 6 defence dice with 4 hp after you do that. Im really confused why you keep saying you can one-round kill a 6-7 agility ship with 5 hp guaranteed. if biggs is ***, how *** is he with 5 extra defence dice, or 4 more and regen? its horrifyingly imbalanced. luckily you cant make your opponent play biggs, but thweek will never suck in a list with his 2 abilities. You've repeatedly attacked my assertion and claimed you have the solution. please explain yourself

I was looking at this for far too long before i realized why it bugs me and feels impossible.

...thats not a talon roll. Thats not a legal maneuver at all in any form or special interaction. Talonrolls use the front guides and you place your ship like a barrelroll facing the opposite direction you were originally facing.

The shown picture is a BARRELROLL SLOOP lol.... the initial talonroll would place him roughly right where the "barrelroll" template is and facing the same way the TIE Adv is facing. Not even going to mention the dual actions after doing a red maneuver since that would indicate Baffles on a super squishy ship which is just suicide.

wow that ability hurts my brain. To the point it took me THIS LONG to notice how badly they eff'd it up. I get a feeling theyre going to have to release an official "This is where you should be facing with each template" post so people can actually understand it properly. Tallon rolls only use the turn maneuver prior to this guy.

edit: apparently it hurt my brain so bad i totally missed the text STARTING POSITION in this particular image lol....ugh...

18 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

I was looking at this for far too long before i realized why it bugs me and feels impossible.

...thats not a talon roll. Thats not a legal maneuver at all in any form or special interaction. Talonrolls use the front guides and you place your ship like a barrelroll facing the opposite direction you were originally facing.

The shown picture is a BARRELROLL SLOOP lol.... the initial talonroll would place him roughly right where the "barrelroll" template is and facing the same way the TIE Adv is facing. Not even going to mention the dual actions after doing a red maneuver since that would indicate Baffles on a super squishy ship which is just suicide.

wow that ability hurts my brain. To the point it took me THIS LONG to notice how badly they eff'd it up. I get a feeling theyre going to have to release an official "This is where you should be facing with each template" post so people can actually understand it properly. Tallon rolls only use the turn maneuver prior to this guy.

It's really no different than IG-D being able to do a hard turn sloop. You still perform the maneuver the same way, it's just using a different template.

And he did 0 actions after a red maneuver. The 1-bank right is just showing where the original move would have gone. Instead of doing that, he advanced sensors to do a barrel roll back-left (with the mk2 title), then uses his ability to turn the 1 bank right into a 1 bank talon roll, so he uses the same template but rotates 90 degrees to the right at the end of the maneuver.

yeah i just noticed where my confusion was.

To my knowledge theyve never shown a diagram like that. For some reason i saw the top as the starting position, and somehow completely missed the text someone added onto this image lol.

Yeah i feel dumb now. That hurt my brain...

On 7/28/2017 at 0:35 PM, Vontoothskie said:

so if I follow, one weakish pilot with a less than ideal missile could remove 1 shield and possibly deal a crit? still rolling 6 defence dice with 4 hp after you do that. Im really confused why you keep saying you can one-round kill a 6-7 agility ship with 5 hp guaranteed. if biggs is ***, how *** is he with 5 extra defence dice, or 4 more and regen? its horrifyingly imbalanced. luckily you cant make your opponent play biggs, but thweek will never suck in a list with his 2 abilities. You've repeatedly attacked my assertion and claimed you have the solution. please explain yourself

Not just aggressive, but very confused too? I don't know how many people you are mistaking me for, but I am just me. I never said you could take out Thweek in a single turn (you probably could if you tried hard enough, but I never said that), and I never "attacked your assertion," but I can start if you'd like. What you've described is 73 points, and that's without the Advanced Sensors that works so well with the SV Mk. II, or without pretty much anything else on the Hound's Tooth. I would also think you'd normally want to use Jabba when you're supporting many Illicit upgrades, not just 1 or 2.

Where do you expect to see this? At a tournament? How well do you think that's gonna do in a tournament against any list that doesn't include Biggs? They'll just ignore Thweek until the end, because all his upgrades are defensive. Or maybe you don't want to see this in single matches against your friends who know what lists you'll run? In that case, one of you can change your list slightly.

Also, the list you described is a hard counter to your average Biggs list. If someone has your hard counter, do you think it should be easy to turn the tables on them? The example I gave was of a counter to a Twiggs. It's a counter to a hard counter, so of course it's specific. Also no, you didn't understand it right: The Ion Pulse Missile is to remove Thweek's shield, get rid of his Stealth Device, and contain him for two turns (possibly separating him from Bossk). By the time his Ionisation runs out, if he's still alive, his Cloaking Device could have failed once already. Immediately after the missile hits, it's up to Ten Numb to snipe him from afar (3/8 chance of critting per attack die, no matter how many defense die he has... to a maximum of 1 crit, unless Thwiggs botched his roll). I made it like this because you seemed to not like the Autoblaster route, which is another option. Meanwhile you've got Biggs tanking for everyone like usual, at range 3.

BTW Bossk cannot use Bodyguard on Thwiggs. You'll need to find a pilot with an EPT slot that has a pilot skill of 3 if you want to do that (Contracted Scout, Lok Revenant, both of which would barely fit in your budget naked, Inaldra, and Concord Dawn Veteran). The main point is it couldn't be the same ship that has Jabba, and you'd have almost no more room for upgrades. Also, Biggs could equip Stealth Device if he wanted to, and he'd still have regeneration.

On 26/07/2017 at 2:32 PM, heychadwick said:

Would anyone use it on a ship that can't take Pulsed Ray Shield? Well, you might build a list with Ion Bombs, Ion Torpedoes, or even Ion Pulse Generator (on another ship, of course). You could give it to someone who has Genius and Ion Bombs. Maybe someone in your list has Ion Torps and you have a ship that gets caught in the blast. Maybe you could even dish off your Ion to someone just out of range....or maybe pass the 2nd Ion to a large ship?

I wouldn't say it's a bad upgrade. It's not broken. I think it will have some uses. I kind of like it.

Well, you could take it in conjunction with 4-Lom? Force your opponent to not be able to spend that evade or focus, and also would he like an Ion Token?