I'm sure this is covered somewhere in the FAQ, but i'd rather ask here.

I have a friend wanting to try a certain list, and we have a few things I THINK i know the answer to, but want to get a consensus.

1.) If Miranda is ionized, can she SLAM after the ion maneuver? I want i say yes, but that feels completely wrong somehow.

2.) Can bombs that are dropped when revealing a maneuver be dropped before an ionized move? I want to say yes, simply because I think 'yes' on number 1.

3) Whatever the answer to number 2, can Nym, equipped with Genius, drop a Bomblet after he does an ionized move? I say yes, simply because Genius says you can drop a comb after you execute a maneuver.

4.) Can Nym move (any kind), barrel roll, then drop a bomblet if he has Genius? I have no idea, but I want to say no.

5.) Can a ship with Advance Sensor do an action before doing an Ionized maneuver? Probably not, but still thought I's ask.

For reference, here's Genius's text:

If you are equipped with a bomb that can be dropped when you reveal your maneuver, you may drop the bomb after you execute your maneuver instead.

and here is advance sensor:

Immediately before you reveal your maneuver, you may perform 1 free action.

If you use this ability, you must skip your "Perform Action" step during this round.

1: Yes. SLAM doesn't check for a dial, just looks at the speed of the manoeuvre.

2: No. The trigger for them is based on the reveal of a dial. No dial, no bomb.

3: Arguable. I'd personally be dubious, because of the use of the word 'instead' but the intent is not clear from the card and it's not been used anywhere near enough yet to have an FAQ entry. It needs one.

4: Yes, via Advanced Sensors, he could barrel roll or boost (with Engine Upgrade) then drop the bomb, then reveal his dial - but only in that order. You can dropp > roll/boost > dial because of the wording of the triggers - AS is 'before you reveal your dial' whereas bombs are 'when you reveal', strictly afterwards.

5: No, again, AS depends on having a dial to reveal, so it doesn't work without one.

15 minutes ago, enigmahfc said:

With Genius, it's pretty much a 'if "this", you may instead do "this"' sort of logic, but FFG is crap at technical writing so who knows.

I'd concur with spaced on all of that.

Specifically on point 3, I'd say the wording of the card would imply you still need to reveal I dial but it's ambiguous enough I wouldn't say that's air tight.

33 minutes ago, sharrrp said:

I'd concur with spaced on all of that.

Specifically on point 3, I'd say the wording of the card would imply you still need to reveal I dial but it's ambiguous enough I wouldn't say that's air tight.

The card doesn't say anywhere that you must reveal the dial. It does require that the bomb in question have that trigger... but that's it.

Genius would need to be reworded to require a dial reveal otherwise.

4 minutes ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

The card doesn't say anywhere that you must reveal the dial. It does require that the bomb in question have that trigger... but that's it.

Genius would need to be reworded to require a dial reveal otherwise.

If you are equipped with a bomb that can be dropped when you reveal your maneuver, you may drop the bomb after you execute your maneuver instead.

Instead of what?

The two competing points of view are effectively

- you change the wording on the bomb from 'when you reveal your dial you may drop' to 'after your execute a manoeuvre, you may drop'

- you interpret the card as 'when you would drop a bomb when you reveal your dial, you can delay it until after you execute the revealed manoeuvre instead'.

I genuinely don't think the intent is clear, and there's enough ambiguity in the writing to permit the discussion, though personally I think I fall down in support of case 1 by RAW, but case 2 by RAI and balance.

15 minutes ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

The card doesn't say anywhere that you must reveal the dial. It does require that the bomb in question have that trigger... but that's it.

Genius would need to be reworded to require a dial reveal otherwise.

"Genius" references bombs that are dropped after revealing "your maneuver" but allows you to drop them after completing "your maneuver" instead. I would argue that wording implies you still need to have revealed a dial for it to be "your maneuver" otherwise it would say "completing a maneuver".

That's how I would rule it if I was a TO and had to make a call anyway, but as I said I am willing to concede it's not completely clear either way.

59 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

4: Yes, via Advanced Sensors, he could barrel roll or boost (with Engine Upgrade) then drop the bomb, then reveal his dial - but only in that order. You can dropp > roll/boost > dial because of the wording of the triggers - AS is 'before you reveal your dial' whereas bombs are 'when you reveal', strictly afterwards.

You've misinterpreted the question here. He wants to execute a maneuver, barrel roll, then use genius to drop a bomblet, since it's technically still after he executes a maneuver. The answer is that he can't, because "after you execute the maneuver" is a specific timing window; by the time he can perform other actions (barrel roll, etc) the window has passed.

1 minute ago, hargleblarg said:

You've misinterpreted the question here. He wants to execute a maneuver, barrel roll, then use genius to drop a bomblet, since it's technically still after he executes a maneuver. The answer is that he can't, because "after you execute the maneuver" is a specific timing window; by the time he can perform other actions (barrel roll, etc) the window has passed.

Yes, on reflection, I think you're right.

No, movement actions are not valid triggers for bomb dropping, except possibly Daredevil (and SLAM via Burnout SLAM on a Jumpmaster), depending on the ruling about Genius and Ion Bombs.

18 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

If you are equipped with a bomb that can be dropped when you reveal your maneuver, you may drop the bomb after you execute your maneuver instead.

Instead of what?

After you execute a maneuver, just like what the card says....

You reworked the card wording, and that changes how it works.

10 minutes ago, hargleblarg said:

You've misinterpreted the question here. He wants to execute a maneuver, barrel roll, then use genius to drop a bomblet, since it's technically still after he executes a maneuver. The answer is that he can't, because "after you execute the maneuver" is a specific timing window; by the time he can perform other actions (barrel roll, etc) the window has passed.

Yeah, that's what I meant, and I pretty much knew you couldn't do that, but I didn't know if there was some rule lawyer way to do it that i'm not aware of.

1 minute ago, enigmahfc said:

After you execute a maneuver, just like what the card says....

You reworked the card wording, and that changes how it works.

My implication is that the writing is bad and the writers didn't consider the case of ion tokens when writing Genius. Or Daredevil, and certainly not SLAM which wasn't even published then.

THat argument is more based on RAI than RAW. As noted, I think RAW is that Genius works with ionised ships (and Daredevil, and SLAM) but RAI is that it shouldn't.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

My implication is that the writing is bad and the writers didn't consider the case of ion tokens when writing Genius. Or Daredevil, and certainly not SLAM which wasn't even published then.

THat argument is more based on RAI than RAW. As noted, I think RAW is that Genius works with ionised ships (and Daredevil, and SLAM) but RAI is that it shouldn't.

I agree with this, though our local TOs have created a living "local" FAQ, and even their generally RAI focused answers, they still kept Genius working after Ion.

The wording doesn't prohibit it, regardless of how folks think it should work.

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

If you are equipped with a bomb that can be dropped when you reveal your maneuver, you may drop the bomb after you execute your maneuver instead.

Instead of what?

The two competing points of view are effectively

- you change the wording on the bomb from 'when you reveal your dial you may drop' to 'after your execute a manoeuvre, you may drop'

- you interpret the card as 'when you would drop a bomb when you reveal your dial, you can delay it until after you execute the revealed manoeuvre instead'.

I genuinely don't think the intent is clear, and there's enough ambiguity in the writing to permit the discussion, though personally I think I fall down in support of case 1 by RAW, but case 2 by RAI and balance.

"Instead" is there to make sure it's clear you're only dropping one bomb, not getting a second opportunity to drop the same bomb again.

Genius isn't itself being triggered either on dial reveal or after executing a maneuver. Genius is changing the triggers of the bomb. If you are equipped with a bomb that can be dropped when you reveal your maneuver, you may drop the bomb after you execute your maneuver instead. It's giving the bomb card a different option.

They would have written it "You may treat Bomb (dial-reveal): as Bomb (after-maneuver):" if there were bomb drop headers that worked like attack headers.