Cannot Get Your Ship Out! 7/24 through 7/30

By geek19, in Star Wars: Armada

Posted at

Nice articles! Just one thing:

19 minutes ago, geek19 said:

I will fully say that I did NOT expect my accuracy to get double shot so fast out from under me, and I knew it was only a matter of time after THAT.

Bold added for ease of identification. Did you perhaps mean scatter?

Posted at
15 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Nice articles! Just one thing:

Bold added for ease of identification. Did you perhaps mean scatter?

Yep. The downside of writing at 1 am when I should be sleeping.

Posted at

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/07/wave-6-article-updates-7252017.html

Article updates for wave 6. In this case, the VSD, Raider, and ordnance articles have all been brought up to date. External Racks, Quad Battery Turrets, and Disposable Capacitors have changed some things up. I'll need to modify the offensive retrofits article to include the DCaps soon, but that's a project for later.

Posted at

I love that you guys are keeping the articles up to date with the latest stuff! I was wondering if it would be possible to highlight the most recent material in a different color, just so that it's easy to spot changes? Kind of like FFG does when they update the FAQ. Keep up the good work!

Posted at
4 hours ago, WAC47 said:

I love that you guys are keeping the articles up to date with the latest stuff!

Thanks, we've certainly got our hands full with it but in the long run I think it will produce less total clutter and keep the articles relevant. It's really easy for things to get lost in the churn, which we're hoping to avoid.

Quote

I was wondering if it would be possible to highlight the most recent material in a different color, just so that it's easy to spot changes? Kind of like FFG does when they update the FAQ. Keep up the good work!

John and I can certainly discuss that possibility, but if we did it would only be highlighting what was added. Other things have been removed and it's tough to note an absence - for example, I removed the portion of the Raider article dealing with how to handle old-school Rhymer and I also removed the naked VSD build option, as new cheap upgrades (External Racks, Quad Battery Turrets) no longer really make that as appealing as it once was.

Thanks for reading!

Posted at
12 hours ago, Snipafist said:

Hey let's talk about the FFG tournament structure and requirements!

Yeah some folks are gonna find this boring but it's good stuff to know if you're not comfortable diving in just yet. I had someone specifically request this article, believe it or not!

This is a good overview article. @jamie nasmyth might want to start sharing it before our tournaments.

Posted at

So I'm rereading the Interdictor article (friend of mine loves the ship and wants to use it tomorrow, so I'm trying to figure out how to set up a decent fleet for him to use it with), and I noticed something in the section on G7-X generators:

"You have a Rhymerball that can theoretically punch an enemy ship on turn 1 (with some help from Fighter Coordination Teams and the like) and your opponent would like to be able to spend some of his defense tokens against that."

Can a Rhymerball still punch a ship turn 1 with its reduced reach? It would probably require the Squall title, but that only applies to 3 ships - not a very punchy Rhymerball. Right now my table is packed up so I can't set up a simulation myself, otherwise I wouldn't be asking.

Posted at
35 minutes ago, iamfanboy said:

So I'm rereading the Interdictor article (friend of mine loves the ship and wants to use it tomorrow, so I'm trying to figure out how to set up a decent fleet for him to use it with), and I noticed something in the section on G7-X generators:

"You have a Rhymerball that can theoretically punch an enemy ship on turn 1 (with some help from Fighter Coordination Teams and the like) and your opponent would like to be able to spend some of his defense tokens against that."

Can a Rhymerball still punch a ship turn 1 with its reduced reach? It would probably require the Squall title, but that only applies to 3 ships - not a very punchy Rhymerball. Right now my table is packed up so I can't set up a simulation myself, otherwise I wouldn't be asking.

With the interdictor FCT slingshot.... It was only 3 squadrons anyway :)

But don't underestimate what you can do with 3 black dice when your opponent cannot spend defense tokens...

"Good Rolls" will kill Corvettes, Raiders, Flotillas and put some hefty critical damage on anything that is not killed....

and their only repsonse is to navigate... Not repair.


Edited by Drasnighta
Posted at

This was going ot be an edit, but adding as an extra post so its better seen:



And the (very rough from memory) Math. (I'll round partials down, just in case):

The Table is 90cm Wide.

You are deploying your FCT FC Interdictor Distance 3 onto the Battlefield. (18 .5 cm)

You Place your Squadrons Distance 2 from the Interdictor, but a little to the side (12cm)

They get a distance 1 move through Interdictor... (This is heftily rounded down to 7cm, as its closer to 8....)

They then move Distance 4 as part of their delayed, post FCT Activation... (24cm)

Rhymer then allows them to shoot to Close Range... (12cm)

That's an engagement envelope of 73 cm.

Which leaves 17 cm to the Edge of the Table.....

Which is potentially 1cm (with probably another centimeter, maybe centimeter and a half, overall of appropriate wiggle room due to generous round-downs) into the enemy deployment Zone... If they have deployed to the front of their Deployment zone, and you've managed to delay-deploy to be virtually across from them... You can still engage with FC-FCT ...

However, as stated - its pretty tight in the measurements. There's no alternate angles to avoid CAP fighters. There's no side shots... its pretty well hitting the front of the Target.

But it is doable.

Posted at
2 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

This was going ot be an edit, but adding as an extra post so its better seen:



And the (very rough from memory) Math. (I'll round partials down, just in case):

The Table is 90cm Wide.

You are deploying your FCT FC Interdictor Distance 3 onto the Battlefield. (18 .5 cm)

You Place your Squadrons Distance 2 from the Interdictor, but a little to the side (12cm)

They get a distance 1 move through Interdictor... (This is heftily rounded down to 7cm, as its closer to 8....)

They then move Distance 4 as part of their delayed, post FCT Activation... (24cm)

Rhymer then allows them to shoot to Close Range... (12cm)

That's an engagement envelope of 73 cm.

Which leaves 17 cm to the Edge of the Table.....

Which is potentially 1cm (with probably another centimeter, maybe centimeter and a half, overall of appropriate wiggle room due to generous round-downs) into the enemy deployment Zone... If they have deployed to the front of their Deployment zone, and you've managed to delay-deploy to be virtually across from them... You can still engage with FC-FCT ...

However, as stated - its pretty tight in the measurements. There's no alternate angles to avoid CAP fighters. There's no side shots... its pretty well hitting the front of the Target.

But it is doable.

And would be more doable with a Squall title. I just wasn't sure it would still reach, that's all - like I said, my table's packed up and I don't have a flat space in my house big enough to set up a theoretical boardstate.

Pairing the Interdictor with GX-7 and a Quasar isn't necessarily as crazy as I thought at first blush, if you're going all in on the bomber game - a Projection Experts Interdictor would keep the Quasar healthy longer, you can fill out with cheaper ships like Expanded Racks Raiders or even more Gozantis for squadron pushing, and it'd make a much more durable flagship than the Quasar. Probably Motti as the commander? Hmm.....

113 Suppression Refit w/ Interdictor, Wulff, Projection Experts, GX-7, Targeting Scrambler

66 Quasar Fire-I w/ Squall, Boosted Comms, Expanded Hangar Bay

107 Rhymer, Tempest Squadron, 2x Jumpmasters, 6 Bombers

Still leaves 114 points left to play with for commanders and Gozantis, with maybe a cheap Raider. You could also replace the bombers with 5 TIE Defenders and have an EXTREMELY versatile Rhymerball, or attach a Lambda and maybe ditch Boosted Comms...

Posted at
3 minutes ago, iamfanboy said:

And would be more doable with a Squall title. I just wasn't sure it would still reach, that's all - like I said, my table's packed up and I don't have a flat space in my house big enough to set up a theoretical boardstate.

Pairing the Interdictor with GX-7 and a Quasar isn't necessarily as crazy as I thought at first blush, if you're going all in on the bomber game - a Projection Experts Interdictor would keep the Quasar healthy longer, you can fill out with cheaper ships like Expanded Racks Raiders or even more Gozantis for squadron pushing, and it'd make a much more durable flagship than the Quasar. Probably Motti as the commander? Hmm.....

113 Suppression Refit w/ Interdictor, Wulff, Projection Experts, GX-7, Targeting Scrambler

66 Quasar Fire-I w/ Squall, Boosted Comms, Expanded Hangar Bay

107 Rhymer, Tempest Squadron, 2x Jumpmasters, 6 Bombers

Still leaves 114 points left to play with for commanders and Gozantis, with maybe a cheap Raider. You could also replace the bombers with 5 TIE Defenders and have an EXTREMELY versatile Rhymerball, or attach a Lambda and maybe ditch Boosted Comms...

One G7 just isn't enough denial room to convince an opponent to deploy stuff there. I mean, they might , but there's no real incentive .

Whereas , with the Nose-Punch, packing the Twin Interdictors - you're denying the majority of their Deployment Zone.

But, again, tactics, players and Metas vary.

I just wanted to point out, that yes. The FC/FCT Interdictor Combo will work.

A Corruptor VSD will not, unless rounding is heavily in your favour - its that close.

This was also assuming Rhymer and 2 TIE Bombers... Rhymer and 2 TIE Defenders can extend the range, but they have a reduced punch in comparison.

Squall is the best still, and Squall is essentially equivelant to the FC/FCT Interdictor in its original capacity - with the only problem being it can't pack the G7-X and requires Interdictors along for the ride, anyway!

Posted at
7 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

One G7 just isn't enough denial room to convince an opponent to deploy stuff there. I mean, they might , but there's no real incentive .

Whereas , with the Nose-Punch, packing the Twin Interdictors - you're denying the majority of their Deployment Zone.

But, again, tactics, players and Metas vary.

I just wanted to point out, that yes. The FC/FCT Interdictor Combo will work.

A Corruptor VSD will not, unless rounding is heavily in your favour - its that close.

This was also assuming Rhymer and 2 TIE Bombers... Rhymer and 2 TIE Defenders can extend the range, but they have a reduced punch in comparison.

Squall is the best still, and Squall is essentially equivelant to the FC/FCT Interdictor in its original capacity - with the only problem being it can't pack the G7-X and requires Interdictors along for the ride, anyway!

Well, I mean, in theory you COULD have two Interdictors and a Squall. The two Supression Refits with GX-7s, and an otherwise-naked Squall - with Admiral Motti - leaves 135 points, enough for some extremely skinny upgrades and the bomber wing outlined above. I'm just not sure if its one trick is worthwhile... its only other trick is just how tough it is to wreck it.

So no, it's probably a terrible idea. Yeah, maybe your bomber wing MURDERS that one ship, but will the rest of your fleet deal enough damage to outlast them? Okay, admittedly the Interdictor is quite durable (we're talking about 11 hull and 5 engineering on two different ships!), and used well it could scalpel out a Gladiator or other single high-damage source that the opponent is depending on, but really it seems as though the game is moving away from that idea.

Posted at
Just now, iamfanboy said:

Well, I mean, in theory you COULD have two Interdictors and a Squall. The two Supression Refits with GX-7s, and an otherwise-naked Squall - with Admiral Motti - leaves 135 points, enough for some extremely skinny upgrades and the bomber wing outlined above. I'm just not sure if its one trick is worthwhile... its only other trick is just how tough it is to wreck it.

So no, it's probably a terrible idea. Yeah, maybe your bomber wing MURDERS that one ship, but will the rest of your fleet deal enough damage to outlast them? Okay, admittedly the Interdictor is quite durable (we're talking about 11 hull and 5 engineering on two different ships!), and used well it could scalpel out a Gladiator or other single high-damage source that the opponent is depending on, but really it seems as though the game is moving away from that idea.

The fact that I won a tournament with it. Including tabling an Ackbar Fleet while doing so?

Yes.

I believe it does.

Its not a single gimmick - its a multi-layered approach to battle :)

Nose-Punch Strengths:

+ The Bomber wing does the initial strike, putting the opponent on the back foot.

+ With the majority of their fleet at Speed 0 at the start of the game, you have the distinct advantage in any locational-based objective missions. (Make sure you're loaded to the gills with them). The Presence of GSR even makes enemy "defensive holdouts" such as Station Assault and Contested Outpost much closer to your advantage.

+ The entire fleet is hyper-aggressive, utilising Double-Arcing Interdictors with Ion Cannon Batteries (one protecting the other with Targeting Scrambler+Interdictor) to close the gap quickly to survivable ranges. Ion Cannon Batteries ups a Interdictor Double-Arc to something better than an ISD's Front Arc... Almost Akin to an un-ion-upgraded ISD-IIs Double-Arc.

+ the Sheer Psychological warfare of hitting your opponent with either your first activation (2nd player) or the first activation of the game (1st player), when a player is often trying to setup their strategy and enact it - puts them on the back food and give you impetus that they may never recover from.

Admitted Nose-Punch Weaknesses:

+ it can never really decide if it wants 1st or wants 2nd.. It gets a hefty advantage of both, but gearing to one compromises to the other.

+ It wasn't built with Strategic in mind. That's coming with Nose-Punch 3.0

+ It relies on its specific upgrades - and they add up in cost.

+ It was 4 activation.

I am just waiting for my Quasar to arrive so I can really plot and plan out 3.0 and table-feel.

Posted at

I was speaking specifically of the Squall-based variant with two Suppressors - I can see it being good because it's unexpected, but you're still dealing with a very limited pool of points to buy your initial strike wing and outfit the rest of your ships, it's only three activation without a lot of damaging ability outside of that initial strike wing, and you're probably giving up the choice for first/second because of its points requirement.

Posted at
4 minutes ago, iamfanboy said:

I was speaking specifically of the Squall-based variant with two Suppressors - I can see it being good because it's unexpected, but you're still dealing with a very limited pool of points to buy your initial strike wing and outfit the rest of your ships, it's only three activation without a lot of damaging ability outside of that initial strike wing, and you're probably giving up the choice for first/second because of its points requirement.

Perhaps. Which is why you build to, basically, not care ... Even if you're 2nd player, they're only going to have *one* of their Ships able to spend Defense Tokens.. Use Squall rather than the FC/FCT to strike someone else . If you get 1st, then its just the first activation of the game. If you get 2nd, well, its your first activation strike *and* you've got 3 Objectives that are like FREE POINTS for you.

Still WIP, Which is why I'm working on it, like so:

Nose Punch (Beta) 3.0
Initial Configuration (Pre-Testing)

[ EMPIRE FLEET (399 points)
1 • Interdictor Suppression Refit - Admiral Motti - Disposable Capacitors - Targeting Scrambler - G7-X Grav Well Projector - Ion Cannon Batteries - Interdictor (132)
2 • Interdictor Suppression Refit - Flight Commander - Fighter Coordination Team - Expanded Hangar Bay - Grav Shift Reroute - G7-X Grav Well Projector - Ion Cannon Batteries (110)
3 • Quasar Fire I-class Cruiser-Carrier - Squall (57)
4 • Gozanti-class Cruisers (23)
5 • Major Rhymer TIE Bomber Squadron (16)
6 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)
7 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)
8 • Lambda-classShuttle (15)
9 • Tempest Squadron TIE Advanced Squadron (13)
10 • Zertik Strom TIE Advanced Squadron (15)
11 • Objectives - Station Assault - Contested Outpost - Salvage Run (0)

Edited by Drasnighta
Posted at
20 hours ago, Snipafist said:

Hey let's talk about the FFG tournament structure and requirements!

Yeah some folks are gonna find this boring but it's good stuff to know if you're not comfortable diving in just yet. I had someone specifically request this article, believe it or not!

I read it and loved it. This is very useful. I have a question about notes though. While I would never take notes on the player's fleet or tactics, I have a memory issue due to medical reasons. Would I be allowed to makes notes of my stuff for myself for the sake of expedience? It seems when I play, I have to go over every single part of my fleet and the board state to try to remember what I wanted to do each round. I haven't tried yet, but it seems like taking notes would help out a lot.

Posted at
8 hours ago, Geodes said:

I read it and loved it. This is very useful. I have a question about notes though. While I would never take notes on the player's fleet or tactics, I have a memory issue due to medical reasons. Would I be allowed to makes notes of my stuff for myself for the sake of expedience? It seems when I play, I have to go over every single part of my fleet and the board state to try to remember what I wanted to do each round. I haven't tried yet, but it seems like taking notes would help out a lot.

That's @geek19 's department. He's begun writing articles about keeping a mental checklist. I am not sure if an exception would be made for you, but standard rules are that notes of any kind, whether about the enemy's fleet or your own, are not permitted.

Posted at

Nose Punch is also very, very luck dependent.

I used the fleet 3 times on the table. Out of the nine bomber attacks on that magic first turn (across all 3 games), I scored exactly one point of damage. :(

Edited by Democratus
Posted at
1 hour ago, Democratus said:

Nose Punch is also very, very luck dependent.

I used the fleet 3 times on the table. Out of the nine bomber attacks on that magic first turn (across all 3 games), I scored exactly one point of damage. :(

Welcome to Statistically Abysmal.

That's how most of my games go. And not just First Turns.

Posted at
13 hours ago, Geodes said:

I read it and loved it. This is very useful. I have a question about notes though. While I would never take notes on the player's fleet or tactics, I have a memory issue due to medical reasons. Would I be allowed to makes notes of my stuff for myself for the sake of expedience? It seems when I play, I have to go over every single part of my fleet and the board state to try to remember what I wanted to do each round. I haven't tried yet, but it seems like taking notes would help out a lot.

By the strict FFG rules, no note-taking is allowed.

Given your circumstances, however, I'd recommend speaking with the TO ahead of time to see if you could get an exception. TOs are allowed to bend/break the rules if they determine the circumstances dictate it. If they do allow you to take notes, then I'd make sure to bring something along to prove to your opponents that you're allowed to do so (written authorization) so there's no confusion or suspicion of cheating. I mean I'd allow it if it was my call to make, so I figure your chances are pretty good.

Also regarding the Interdictor, I'll need to update that section to mention the Squall title due to the Rhymer nerf (as @Drasnighta indicated, it is technically doable with the Interdictor alone but the opportunity there is razor-thin). I'm finding Rhymer nerf repercussions still hiding in different articles and they always pop up once I think I've smushed the last one, haha.

Edited by Snipafist
Posted at

Guaranteed a Centimeter.

Potentially get another Centimeter and a Half, if all Rounding and positioning is in your favour.

That's about as tight as it gets.

(In before "that's what she said")

Posted at
5 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

I'm finding Rhymer nerf repercussions still hiding in different articles and they always pop up once I think I've smushed the last one, haha.

An interesting balance metric - number of articles which must be amended if a certain upgrade card is nerfed.