After 4 games of Runewars playing every army i have com to the conclusion that the Heroes for Runewars seem...very.....out of place. To quote my friend Dave "EPIC! EPIC! EPIC!.....*** questing.....EPIC! EPIC! EPIC!" so yeah....what is everyone elses thoughts? do you like them or no? i have one friend that still wants to play and hasnt and ill see what he thinks of hte heroes....but 3-4 say no heroes.

*EDIT: Language*

Every single game I've played in, the Heroes have been important, whether it's by finding a Dragon Throne token, getting an important Shard of Timmoran, getting some key Neutrals to join you (with Tactics cards), and even some neat Hero abilities affecting combat.

I think for us, it's because our group has focused on the army aspect of the game, realizing the Heroes were just support for the goal, and not trying to make the questing more involved than it needs to be. For what the game is focused on, I think the questing is just the right amount.

The Heroes do more than quest - they explore in ways that will often help tip the balance of the game.

I've played RW only once and while reading the rules and looking through quest/reward cards I came to this conlclusion. The heroes are just in the background mate - the main thing in RW is batteling other players and conquering new terrains and gaining Dragon Runes. You start with 2, then you get some during the play but most of the runes will be aquired with the help of heroes (rewards, selling reward with help of titels etc.)! That's the reason they are in the game.

Although there might be a wider range of quests (so you don't have to do the same quests over and over again) and some other mechanism for questing - 6 times per game is a bit too little.

sigmazero13 said:

True. Heroes are there as an extension of his personal strategy, not only to make war. Unfortunately, if you expect to do so, play Starcraft is a better choice... However, I regret that heroes and reward cards don't be able to act in battles, so I thought a few homerules and reward cards that allow heroes a little more interaction with the units during battles ( this previous post ).

I guess one thing that I don't like about the idea of making the Heroes leaders and generals is the fact they are prone to desertion. I would think someone promoted to the position of a General would be one that had demonstrated large amounts of loyalty. And one who fits with the ideals of their war.

Hiring mercenary heroes to do questing is one thing, but I can't see Sir Valadir accepting an offer to lead the troops of the undead, or the Elves taking an evil General into battle with them.

personally, at first I didnt really love the heros, and now I do. Similarly with diplomacy. AFter more plays I think they both are just right.

Farin said:

So your friend Dave has an exuberant time questing? I wouldn't think in an enlightened society that we would use terms used for a group of people as a pejorative.

Actually Marcronx, the term gay comes from the old victorian term for a weekend prostitute. As has happened to other similar terms, the word started to be used as a swear word mostly against women, and then from there transfered to homosexuals. As sometimes happens, the community that the word was meant to insult, instead embraced it and used it to identify itself with (in the same way that Greek is a pejorative Latin word for Hellenic people, but now it's so associated with us that it s not a swear anymore).

As with most English words, gay has redefined itself several times. Heck, the word "nice" used to mean precise. I was shocked to hear a child at an elementary school say, "You kiss girls?! That's soo Gay!" So I really don't think the term strictly applies to homosexual people anymore.

That aside, the OP is dead wrong about the heroes. They've won every game for me, the key is to get 3 out very quickly. If you re playing evil then you ll need Jaes to kill enemy units or use that walking skeleton and mad karthos to hunt and kill other heroes. If you re good, the heroes are superior for completing quests and as the good align factions you ll have more influence to spend on having the adventurers guild on your side. Using 3 heroes a turn you can seriously affect the enemy forces, and with a little bit of joss can get up to 3 rewards a turn, which can turn very easily into more dragon runes, which are the only goal worth going for. Military expansion in this game isn't sustainable because you re always potentially stronger on attack than any defense can really muster, which makes counter attacks so very important. This makes dragon rune acquisition from politics and questing so much more valuable

sigmazero13 said:

Have to agree with this point and some others that Heroes are important but not the focus of the game. If anything they are a means to an end when your placed in a tight spot and a game could go anyway. In the several games I have played the Heroes were never the focus but they did aid in taking the win when all other options had been stopped. The game is slick and I never tire of it. Just another fabulous game placed within the Realm of the Runebound mythos.

its not called RunEhERoEs, or RunEquEsT, its called RunEWARs. In war, heroes are just a small portion of the larger armies and kingdoms (or nations) that are battling.

Just played my second game tonight. The heroes are VITAL to the win condtions. We used the heroes MUCH better in our second game. Our game tonight ended with a hero bringing in the 6th rune for the win. I look forward to more plays, and more efficient use of the heroes.

TK

Taki said:

I'm afraid it does, and I for one find it extremely offensive.

You are welcome to your opinion, and certainly in a forum like this people should use more neutral language... but it really doesn't. Words don't ever mean "just one thing, and that is their definition, and it can't change". Words are redefined all the time. When someone says "that's gay" meaning "that's lame" or "that's bad" etc. they might mean homosexual... but more likely they just heard someone else use the word at some point and are just using it in the same context. So be offended if you want, but I don't think the intent was to offend, so at the end of the day it's really all on you.

broken said:

where i live....the word "gay" is used to mean....really...really dumb. Every time we have played wining has come down to area control. Not once have the heroes been useful in fact they have been annoying and out of place....and when you get the quest where you have to go into a home realm to complete it and someone plays that tactic to steal a hero ( i forget the name ) its just down right irritating! they just seem to distract us from the epic battles and tence ares control.....BUT this is our group and im sure that to most as i read the post, love the heroes and thats great! to each his own

broken said:

Whether they intend it or not, they are associating being gay with being lame or stupid or bad. Plain and simple.

Ask yourself if would it be okay to say "That's so black" or "That's so Baptist" to indicate something was stupid or lame. Pick something about you to get a better feeling of the negative association.

Yes, people, especially children, imitate others and they may be ignorant of what they're really saying. I think it is the responsible thing to do to educate them.

If there were actually an established meaning of "black" that meant "lame, stupid" and was not associated with black people the way "gay" as "lame, stupid" is not associated with gay people... then sure, that'd be fine. Furthermore, I'd happily use any religious term to mean "lame, stupid".

The kids may not be making the homosexual connection, but that IS the derivation of why it's used for "lame". I'm not offended by the kids since I realize they have little idea what they're saying. It's sort of like guys wearing baggy pants where the waistline is barely above the thigh. Would all of those kids do that if they knew the derivation? Heck, the derivation I know might be an urban legend for all I know, but I don't know a "good" derivation so I just shake my head when I see the baggy pants. Oh, and I know a kid who comes to gaming and actually says pwned at times. I find this stupid too, but what am I gonna do about it, eh?

Macronx said:

ok serious just stop! In the area i live the word gay has what is know as a "Real Definition" We almsot never use its "Nominal" Definition because its so over used as a word there is no meaning to it...when we want to talk about Homosexuals we say.....homosexual....the word "Retarded" also never gets used the correct way either.....if you can understand that...spend sometime in the northern Midwest. now BACK TO THE GAME!

and for the record we arnt kids....our groups ages range from 18-21

Farin said:

Young 'uns

Ok, I'm not THAT much older...

This thread is soooooooo Baptist.

blarknob said:

As a participant of this thread, I am extremely offended.

Trump said:

Uh oh. Dont you know the word Lame is actually offensive, since it originally meant someone who was crippled, and now you are using it to mean something that is bad or stupid or annoying.

Same with moron, idiot, retard, imbecile. Those are all terms that used to be medical terms for people with low IQs or mentally retarded, and now are just plain insults....

Politically Correctness just pwned you

Lets get back on track as keeping on with this thread of thought doesn't address the relevancy of heroes.

Heroes aren't the focus of the game. They're an element of it. Just about any item they can draw from questing helps you towards winning. Timmoran shards count as dragon runes, the dual items let you better attack other heroes, keeping other players from gaining timmoran shards or possibly stealing them. The othe other items help heroes interact with your armies, which are the focus of the game. After all, you need enough defense to hold the six areas to store the Dragon Runes. Heroes help you win, they are an element of the game, but certainly no the focus. I've seen people win without heroes and I've seen players win because of heroes.

Acebob said:

The last game I played, my hero (Red Scorpion) was worthless - failed her quest twice, and then got slaughtered by a couple of my brother's Heroes.

However, at the end of the game, I only BARELY lost - I would have won later that season except my brother went first and got the 6th rune. His Hero did help him get that win (among many other factors not related to heroes), but my lack of a helpful hero wasn't the cause of my defeat, and I was dang close to pulling it off!

Heroes are a good help, but aren't essential. Useful, but not vital.