Also, on the topic of general MC80A builds, I tend to run mine with something other than Ackbar, usually Rieekan, and then aim to double-arc. Usually you don't want XI7 in that case because you're just wearing down the shields and tokens with all of the extra attacks. The bright part is that it will trigger Defiance on both shots.

31 minutes ago, Vergilius said:

Also, on the topic of general MC80A builds, I tend to run mine with something other than Ackbar, usually Rieekan, and then aim to double-arc. Usually you don't want XI7 in that case because you're just wearing down the shields and tokens with all of the extra attacks. The bright part is that it will trigger Defiance on both shots.

Nobody's really talking about it, but I think the MC80A, like the VSD, is going to see a major benefit from QBT. Throwing out an Ackbar (or not) broadsides at long range with LS to fix all those reds is going to be nasty .

1 minute ago, Ardaedhel said:

Nobody's really talking about it, but I think the MC80A, like the VSD, is going to see a major benefit from QBT. Throwing out an Ackbar (or not) broadsides at long range with LS to fix all those reds is going to be nasty .

I wonder if it was just the games I happened to play immediately after the wave dropped, but it ended up being against VSDs who were carrying that upgrade and both of us were going speed-1 to avoid giving the extra die to the other.

But against certain lists that must come at the MC80, ouch.

10 hours ago, DavidnTanya said:

I'm new to Armada. I purchased the MC80 A/C Type because it's really awesome looking. I'm struggling to find a role for it however. The AF seems to be better it everything but soaking up damage, and that's not a winning ability in my mind. Doing broadsides with Ackbar works better with more ships, making the cheaper AF the obvious choice. Gunnery teams are made for Akbar (which the MC80 also lacks). As a carrier platform, the AF is superior as well with its available upgrade slots and cheaper price so that I can actually afford those squadrons. What can I use my sweet looking MC80 for?

Looking at the wave 5 regionals, and the current store championships datasets, MC80 A/C's are reasonably well represented across the finish brackets. They performed well paired with CR90s and GR75s, generally in 4-5 ship lists. Regionals were mostly ackbar 80's, but the current crop of store championships have broadened that pretty widely, with Dodonna being a popular choice right now. Fighter wings generally range from 4-8 fighters, but the fighters tend to be more defensive than offensive. (With the lone exception of an MC80/Yavaris/2 GR list with a heavy bomber wing.)

Anyway, good luck!

12 hours ago, Vergilius said:

I wonder if it was just the games I happened to play immediately after the wave dropped, but it ended up being against VSDs who were carrying that upgrade and both of us were going speed-1 to avoid giving the extra die to the other.

But against certain lists that must come at the MC80, ouch.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'd expect. The pickle has the interesting advantage of being a viable perform for QBT that also has access to ET to mitigate the speed constraint.

20 hours ago, xerpo said:

Whats the point on investing in a supertanky ship if you cannot output damage for either of this reasons:

a) You cant fire to 2 different targets with your main battery armament from the most open angle in game.
b) You cant afford enough ships to output the damage you are lacking because youre investing 1/3 of your fleet in a supertanky and slow ship that your enemy is just going to ignore.

In a game where giving up points is bad, its even worse to put a third of your wealth in a single place. And even more worse if you dont have enough firepower (see a and b ) to trade points efficiently.

I've got my own proof from my own regionals and my own stores, guess you have proofs of your own. Guess your truth is as valid as mine.

This guy reached himself the logic conclussion and came here asking for something. Guess he just need to be enlightened by pro players. Please be my guest.

a) You have two such arcs. So you "can" hit two targets if the enemy formation makes it possible (kind of like anything else with Gunnery Teams).

b) First, you probably aren't lacking damage. A Defiance/QTT build gives you the same battery armament at long range as it would have unmodified at medium range (if you like). Second, there are plenty of points left for ships that provide meaningful threats.

You're a strong player. I'm sure you can imagine ways to encourage your opponent to come after your supertanky ship.

23 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Ackbar still works wonderfully, too - especially with this Namesake Technique, The Ackbar Slash , where you are intending to, effectively, Fire with both broadsides - one each side, as you dive through the enemy fleet... Utilising Engine Techs to move faster if neccessary.

Agree 100% to get the most out of this ship, and Ackbar, you need to slash...

Always be slashing!!!

22 hours ago, xerpo said:

Your analysis is pretty accurate. AFK seems to be the only choice now a days if you want effectiveness. Sure you can have some fun trying the builds mentioned above, this is a game after all. Truth is they dont have a place in competitive environments.

Supertank MC80 with no squads and 4 CR90b made World champs top 4 cut, so I'd be careful with the "not competitive" line

5 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

Supertank MC80 with no squads and 5 CR90b made Euro champs top 4 cut, so I'd be careful with the "not competitive" line

FTFY

16 hours ago, SkyCake said:

Agree 100% to get the most out of this ship, and Ackbar, you need to slash...

Always be slashing!!!

With a big base and that speed most of the attemts of slashing, if playing against an experienced player, will end up in a catastrophic dead end blocked on your front and down to ashes in two turns, even with a supertanky build (again, of course, from my own personal experience) Its way more effective, cheaper and safest Ackbar-slashing with AFKM for the matter. And you will still have the choice on firing twice from the same hull if the opponent reacted smart enough to avoid the slash . Wich can be easily avoided at first place with a propper tight deployment. The slash sounds good in the books, not so good on the tabletop.

16 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

Supertank MC80 with no squads and 4 CR90b made World champs top 4 cut, so I'd be careful with the "not competitive" line

Ill brake it down into a numerical scale.

5 is the prefect rounded up, meta, competitive list. 1 is the not comptitive list that exploits one of the weaknesses of type 5 list, but cant stand against a type 6-7-8-9 list. 9 is the not competitive list that exploits another weakness of type 5 list but cannot stand against a 1-2-3-4 type list. Competitive players like to build (in my experience) balanced lists as colse to the 5 as possible. Sometimes you find a type 1 or a type 9 list thats is going to put you in trouble and drop your total score, but in the end those lists are never going to be winners because their only chance to win with a good margin is facing one of the opposite sides of the coin list relying too much on the fleet itself and less in the skill needed to gain a good margin between a match of 5-5 lists, and thats not the tendency on tournaments. Sure you will find that lone mad badass that brings supercool lists and he is there mostly for fun (much respect). But sorry to tell you, thats not competitive. Probably matching did more than half of the work for him, and all he got was 4th.

@Dralex ...

On 7/23/2017 at 0:34 AM, Baltanok said:

(With the lone exception of an MC80/Yavaris/2 GR list with a heavy bomber wing.)

I like being a lone exception. Woo!

My MC80 was MC80A/Rieekan/Defiance/Walex/Nav Team/ECM/RBD/Leading Shots/Quad Battery. It was intended to take on anything short of a boarding Troopers Avenger and win. In a lot of cases, to go 2 on 1 and kill both targets (poor quasars and arqitens). It died once so far in 7 games (to double Ackbar AFmk2).

So my (biased) conclusion is that the MC80A and MC80C are just fine.

Funny side detail: That heavy bomber list was 93 points. It faced 124/112/124 point squad screens and spent all day beating up on them. I only threw 3 attacks at ships from squads in 3 games. The MC80 did all of the heavy lifting in the ship battles.

I've taken two Store Champs with the following and one was even pre-Reeiken nerf. Games were tougher pre-nerf but by god this list has never let me down. It also has the firepower to take down a Motti ISD in 1 turn (it's gotten easier to do in the fighter meta, there's seems to have been a shift away from ECM to RBD).

REBELS

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 399/400

Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

[ flagship ] MC80 Assault Cruiser (114 points)
- Admiral Ackbar ( 38 points)
- Home One ( 7 points)
- Lando Calrissian ( 4 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 193 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 51 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 51 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 51 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 20 total ship cost

1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points)
1 Shara Bey ( 17 points)

4 hours ago, xerpo said:

With a big base and that speed most of the attemts of slashing, if playing against an experienced player, will end up in a catastrophic dead end blocked on your front and down to ashes in two turns, even with a supertanky build (again, of course, from my own personal experience) Its way more effective, cheaper and safest Ackbar-slashing with AFKM for the matter. And you will still have the choice on firing twice from the same hull if the opponent reacted smart enough to avoid the slash . Wich can be easily avoided at first place with a propper tight deployment. The slash sounds good in the books, not so good on the tabletop.

Is that with or without engine techs?

On 7/23/2017 at 1:11 AM, Vergilius said:

I wonder if it was just the games I happened to play immediately after the wave dropped, but it ended up being against VSDs who were carrying that upgrade and both of us were going speed-1 to avoid giving the extra die to the other.

But against certain lists that must come at the MC80, ouch.

The mirror is a wierd place to be. Especially with VSD's. Its like watching a car crash in slo-motion.

But, (and I realize you aren't taking a position against I'm just using your post as a jumping off point) for things like the VSD or the 80 if I can get people to slow down to 1 or 2 so as to not give me that die then thats five points well spent.

3 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Is that with or without engine techs?

^ This.

A nav-ing MC80 with Engine Techs has just as many clicks as a CR90. It's tough to get in front of without a quick small base. If a small base gets in front of you ram it and ET another ram.

21 hours ago, RobertK said:

a) You have two such arcs. So you "can" hit two targets if the enemy formation makes it possible (kind of like anything else with Gunnery Teams).

b) First, you probably aren't lacking damage. A Defiance/QTT build gives you the same battery armament at long range as it would have unmodified at medium range (if you like). Second, there are plenty of points left for ships that provide meaningful threats.

You're a strong player. I'm sure you can imagine ways to encourage your opponent to come after your supertanky ship.

Well the objective suite is what encourages players to come after that mc80 in most of these lists that I see. You force them into a slugfest you are able to dictate the location of/you have advanced gunnery or they back off and you score all the points.

44 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

I've taken two Store Champs with the following and one was even pre-Reeiken nerf. Games were tougher pre-nerf but by god this list has never let me down. It also has the firepower to take down a Motti ISD in 1 turn (it's gotten easier to do in the fighter meta, there's seems to have been a shift away from ECM to RBD).

REBELS

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 399/400

Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

[ flagship ] MC80 Assault Cruiser (114 points)
- Admiral Ackbar ( 38 points)
- Home One ( 7 points)
- Lando Calrissian ( 4 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 193 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 51 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 51 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 51 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 20 total ship cost

1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points)
1 Shara Bey ( 17 points)

I've run this. I think maybe exactly this. Kudos on the store champs wins, I found it to be a ton of fun to fly although I didn't love it for competition. Obviously you made it work tho, which is cool because as I said, majorly fun to run this.

2 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

I've run this. I think maybe exactly this. Kudos on the store champs wins, I found it to be a ton of fun to fly although I didn't love it for competition. Obviously you made it work tho, which is cool because as I said, majorly fun to run this.

There were the dark days of Reeiken (faced one in my first store champ and man that was painful but managed to pull it out). Generally meant I had to fly in at top speed with my hair on fire and hope that I could pull a point spread that kept me competitive. Things are looking way brighter now. Give it a go again. The CR90s can almost take out any other small ship/flotilla in the game in one volley and in a fighter heavy meta with the Reeiken nerf that's golden.

35 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Is that with or without engine techs?

With or without. Engine techs is not saving you from a collision since it triggers before you moved.

33 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

^ This.

A nav-ing MC80 with Engine Techs has just as many clicks as a CR90. It's tough to get in front of without a quick small base. If a small base gets in front of you ram it and ET another ram.

Yup, if an AvengerBT with speed 3 and better clicks than you gets in your front arc I'll be glad to see how you ram it. Twice. For the engine techs please read above.

12 minutes ago, xerpo said:

Yup, if an AvengerBT with speed 3 and better clicks than you gets in your front arc I'll be glad to see how you ram it. Twice. For the engine techs please read above.

An Avenger with speed 3 doesn't have better clicks than an ET. The ET MC80 is actually more maneuverable unless the ISD is nav-ing then they are equal. All things considered if two ships are traveling the same speed with the same maneuverability it should be easier to present a broadside for the MC80 than have an ISD force the front to front engagement when the MC80 is doing everything in its power to avoid it. Otherwise, the engine techs move is the most important before engagement actually begins. You can see the angles of attack and plan accordingly to avoid the front to front. the only one that should be incredibly hard to avoid is a suicide small ship, hence the ET ramming attack should do a decent job of taking it out.

-Edit- Is was wrong. A Nav-ing ET MC80 actually has one more click than a Nav-ing ISD.

5 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

An Avenger with speed 3 doesn't have better clicks than an ET. The ET MC80 is actually more maneuverable unless the ISD is nav-ing then they are equal. All things considered if two ships are traveling the same speed with the same maneuverability it should be easier to present a broadside for the MC80 than have an ISD force the front to front engagement when the MC80 is doing everything in its power to avoid it. Otherwise, the engine techs move is the most important before engagement actually begins. You can see the angles of attack and plan accordingly to avoid the front to front. the only one that should be incredibly hard to avoid is a suicide small ship, hence the ET ramming attack should do a decent job of taking it out.

Of course I never doubted that, but then you are not slashing dont you? Wich was the matter of all this. Then you are showing your broadside to him, and the other broadside to your depoyment area. And you only have one shot from that broadside.

How is that its easier to avoid collision with a small base ship than with a large base ship?
Ofc ABT is using Navs, its all he should be doing to tap you in place.

5 minutes ago, xerpo said:

Of course I never doubted that, but then you are not slashing dont you? Wich was the matter of all this. Then you are showing your broadside to him, and the other broadside to your depoyment area. And you only have one shot from that broadside.

How is that its easier to avoid collision with a small base ship than with a large base ship?
Ofc ABT is using Navs, its all he should be doing to tap you in place.

I wasn't talking about slashing. Just on the general use of the ET to avoid being trapped. It actually harder to avoid a small based ship because they are usually faster and more maneuverable. ABT is not. It's actually less maneuverable.

-Edit- Just on the use of slashing. I honestly don't think you HAVE to slash to get your points back or make the MC80 effective. It's just an something to keep in the back pocket.